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by **koontz1973** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:27 am

With the new title, only the opera house looks better. For some reason, the mountains look fuzzy, the bridge looks the right shape but without any detail, it could be drawn by a two year old. Having the opera house larger, it may be out of scale, but now you can see it clearly so works better than before.

by **chapcrap** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:17 am

I agree that the new title is improved.

Second, it is spelled KAYAK, not KYAK.

I also know that IH brought this up long ago, but it seems a lot of the roads are really unnecessary.

The 4 Parks and Mountains bonuses are very similar in color, it's difficult to tell which one is which from the key. And the names of the regions for Hazelbrook, Springwood, and Lapstone make it difficult to tell where the region is actually at. Maybe it will be easier with the troop numbers, but right now, it looks kind of scrunched up.

What is the reason for making BM National Parks raised? None of the regions look like this and it just looks a little strange by itself.

by **cairnswk** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:07 am

koontz1973 wrote:With the new title, only the opera house looks better.

good

For some reason, the mountains look fuzzy,

the mountains look fuzzy because that's how they are and why they're called the Blue Mountains. It is created by the eucalyptus oils in the air from the valley floors.

the bridge looks the right shape but without any detail, it could be drawn by a two year old.

Well for that size (small) i don't know if I'd want any more detail because it probably wouldn't show, as for a 2 yo...did somebody infest you with their barberous tongue today :shock:

Having the opera house larger, it may be out of scale, but now you can see it clearly so works better than before.

The opera house isn't meant to be large so that size is appropriate as a vista through the bridge.

PS. koontz1973...the software i use for this is Fireworks. It does not allow fine point lines like PS or CD or AI.
1 point lines are the lowest i can achieve. There is quite some detail in the bridge actually, it's simple hidden behind one front layer because this small version doesn't allow it to shwo the larger detail.

by **cairnswk** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:10 am

by **cairnswk** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:28 am

chapcrap wrote:I agree that the new title is improved.

good to hear

Second, it is spelled KAYAK, not KYAK.

I also know that IH brought this up long ago, but it seems a lot of the roads are really unnecessary.

yes i understand, but i wanted to show the main aterial roads around sydney and tie this in with the other Sydney Metro map.

The 4 Parks and Mountains bonuses are very similar in color, it's difficult to tell which one is which from the key.

Sorry, but to me they're miles apart, but i'll see if i can do something to calarify them better.

And the names of the regions for Hazelbrook, Springwood, and Lapstone make it difficult to tell where the region is actually at. Maybe it will be easier with the troop numbers, but right now, it looks kind of scrunched up.

I agree it is scrunched up but then the territory indicator lines are missing from this map :roll:

...now where the hell did they go.

What is the reason for making BM National Parks raised? None of the regions look like this and it just looks a little strange by itself.

Ah, because they are actually mountains that sit behind a 40 mile almost flat plain...that's why they're raised

by **koontz1973** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:07 pm

cairnswk wrote:did somebody infest you with their barberous tongue today

When I wrote what I was, so yes, a bad mood day. Must remember to not post when in a mood.
Sorry for that.

Better mood today and guess what, not much really to complain about GP wise. I love the way you are bringing in the metro map, but it might be nice to see some continuity between the two graphics wise. Same colours, textures, icons and what not. Am I correct in thinking that the metro map is only the Sydney territ on this one? Looking good but I am sure you can see the same defects I can so will not go over them now.

Is there any way you could squeeze the bottom a bit so your bonus legend can fit onto 3 lines? If you can, then it would (again) be nice to see the metro map style brought over.

Two questions for you. What font is the title as I love it? and how did you get that sea detail. Might have to snatch that of you one day.

by **cairnswk** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:00 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:did somebody infest you with their barberous tongue today

When I wrote what I was, so yes, a bad mood day. Must remember to not post when in a mood.
Sorry for that.

Better mood today....

Thanks. That's good.

All is well.

... I love the way you are bringing in the metro map, but it might be nice to see some continuity between the two graphics wise. Same colours, textures, icons and what not. Am I correct in thinking that the metro map is only the Sydney territ on this one? Looking good but I am sure you can see the same defects I can so will not go over them now.

Is there any way you could squeeze the bottom a bit so your bonus legend can fit onto 3 lines? If you can, then it would (again) be nice to see the metro map style brought over.

A couple of things here...
1. i wanted to keep this map as standard size 630x600 because i don't think it justifies anything bigger, i.e. it is nice and compact.
2. squeezing the territories to fit in another line in the legend would create some very squashed territories and i have to ask for what benefit. Also what would i do with the area under the Blue Mntns Nat. Park? I don't know if this map justifies the same legedn style as Metro....perhaps i can come up with something similar but different colours, we'll see.
3. i think the road element is enough to bring across from the Metro map...i would like this map to have simply classic gameplay and not include the icons that are on the Metro map as part of that gameplay.
4. After all the agitation about maps being same-same in the foundry, would you want the same textures etc brought over?
5. The metro map contains some of the detailed suburbs in the area defined on this map by La Perouse, Hurstville, Parramatta, Lane Cove, Chatswood and Manly. There are 656 suburbs listed here.
6. yes i can see some of the defects, and am working on them

Two questions for you. What font is the title as I love it?

AlgerianD

and how did you get that sea detail. Might have to snatch that of you one day.

This is a texture file in Fireworks called Vein - i have it as 15% as the sea background.

by **chapcrap** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:09 pm

cairnswk wrote:
What is the reason for making BM National Parks raised? None of the regions look like this and it just looks a little strange by itself.

Ah, because they are actually mountains that sit behind a 40 mile almost flat plain...that's why they're raised

Jamison Valley is raised in RL?

I don't know. I'm honestly asking. If you say so, I believe you. I just think it looks a little strange to seemingly have the continent raised about the rest of the map.

by **cairnswk** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:34 pm

chapcrap wrote:...
Jamison Valley is raised in RL?

yes i would say it is raised in RL.
You can read about it here
There is also a video here which will allow you to see Katoomba on top of the Blue Mountains.
While it is a valley in the Blue Mountains, it is certainly elevated above the coastal plain.
3 sisters (in the photo) - 900 metres above sea level.
Valley floor 545 metres to the top
Here it explains that the Jamison Valley is 478 metres above sea level.

I don't know. I'm honestly asking. If you say so, I believe you. I just think it looks a little strange to seemingly have the continent raised about the rest of the map.

I have been up there many times and done various walks around sightseeing etc etc. It is quite cool and rarified air, very different from the coastal plain, and definitely in the mountains.

by **cairnswk** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:29 pm

Version 6.

This addresses a couple of issues.
1. the bridge is more detailed in the title.
2. the colour of the upper blue mntns has been changed slightly
3. the lines indicating the lower blue mntn suburbs are back again.
4. Kyak has been fixed to Kayak

by **cairnswk** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:38 pm

So now for gameplay discussion....
I am thinking the only territory that will require a neutral start is sydney.
there are Nil two territory regions.
there are 5 three territory regions
the remainder are 4 and above.
I will do the probability drop s/sheet shortly.

by **cairnswk** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:50 pm

chapcrap wrote:...
I also know that IH brought this up long ago, but it seems a lot of the roads are really unnecessary...

I've had another look at the freeways.
There are several spots where, yes, the freeways mights seem unnecessary.
But for me, removing them would seem an interruption to the flow of the freeways themselves. To have part freeways seems silly to me, and that is why i developed the pedestrian crossing (with lghts) as a means of moving across them.
Having an uninterrupted flow of a freeway also gives some aesthetic to a map to give you an idea that this is roughly where the main freeways in this city run.

by **chapcrap** on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:13 pm

Well, if you removed the northern road (which isn't needed at all north of the circle freeway), I think it might look better.

Also, I like the seakayak routes here better than Perth.

As far as gameplay goes, I would agree with you. There really isn't anywhere that I think is a problem or would need to start neutral other that Sydney.

by **cairnswk** on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:55 pm

chapcrap wrote:Well, if you removed the northern road (which isn't needed at all north of the circle freeway), I think it might look better.

Ah. i really don't want to do that, as i have already explained.

Also, I like the seakayak routes here better than Perth.

Good

As far as gameplay goes, I would agree with you. There really isn't anywhere that I think is a problem or would need to start neutral other that Sydney.

Agreed, but we'll see what the drop calculator says later when this gets out of drafts...if it does?

by **disco bandit** on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:54 pm

I've been lurking around this thread for a while now, and like what I see. The (sensible) changes asked for have been made and the map looks good.

I would like to see the Mid West colour swapped for maybe Central Coast to create a bigger difference between the areas around mid west/western plains, but having lived in Sydney, I understand that the whole of that area is one avoidable suburb anyway ;-)