CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [Quenched]

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [21.4.12] P5-V9 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:04 pm

Version 9

Does this work for anyone?


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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [21.4.12] P6-V9 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:28 pm

That absolutely solves the problem for me. Well done. And I really like the way you solved the 4 way border problem too. You may want to change the background color where the legend now appears as the text is a little difficult to read (not on the mini-map, but the explanations of the impassables and crossings). I'll start checking the gameplay out.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [16.4.12] P5-V8 Gameplay?

Postby pamoa on Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:42 am

pamoa wrote:...La Perouse should annex eastern part of Hurstville

strange colour in Vaucluse/Sydney crossing
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [16.4.12] P5-V8 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:48 am

pamoa wrote:
pamoa wrote:...La Perouse should annex eastern part of Hurstville

strange colour in Vaucluse/Sydney crossing

it does annex La Perouse.
the colour i will examine :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [21.4.12] P6-V9 Gameplay?

Postby Flapcake on Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:12 am

Hi cairnswk, I have not had followed your map much, but I realy like what it have become, Im not an eagle to spot errors in gameplay, so I think it looks strait on :)

I dont have any criticism course you done it again, nice job :P maby only one small thing, the army cirkles, are they necessary ? I think they disturbs the overall beauty, maby with out them it will open the map up and show the details more, sort of ;)

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [16.4.12] P5-V8 Gameplay?

Postby pamoa on Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:24 am

cairnswk wrote:
pamoa wrote:...La Perouse should annex eastern part of Hurstville
it does annex La Perouse
I meant you should extend La Perouse colour to the south so it include Eastern Rockdale
so Rockdale isn't "crossing" the highway
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [21.4.12] P6-V9 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:17 am

Agree with pamoa...Is that crossing only there to indicate that that little piece of territory to the east of the highway that borders La Perouse is also part of Rockdale?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [21.4.12] P6-V9 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:27 pm

Please Alt + F5 to refresh v9 map folks.

nolefan5311 wrote:... You may want to change the background color where the legend now appears as the text is a little difficult to read (not on the mini-map, but the explanations of the impassables and crossings)...

Has that helped? larger text and black outer glow rather than drop shadow.

pamoa wrote:
pamoa wrote:...La Perouse should annex eastern part of Hurstville

strange colour in Vaucluse/Sydney crossing

Fixed

Flapcake wrote:Hi cairnswk, I have not had followed your map much, but I realy like what it have become, Im not an eagle to spot errors in gameplay, so I think it looks strait on :)

I dont have any criticism course you done it again, nice job :P maby only one small thing, the army cirkles, are they necessary ? I think they disturbs the overall beauty, maby with out them it will open the map up and show the details more, sort of ;)

Flap

Thank you flap, please don't think because i done it, it doesn't have mistakes or flaws...
on the army circles, let's leave them there for now and see how all the number colours go on them when i do the xml.

pamoa wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
pamoa wrote:...La Perouse should annex eastern part of Hurstville
it does annex La Perouse
I meant you should extend La Perouse colour to the south so it include Eastern Rockdale
so Rockdale isn't "crossing" the highway

nolefan5311 wrote:Agree with pamoa...Is that crossing only there to indicate that that little piece of territory to the east of the highway that borders La Perouse is also part of Rockdale?


Fixed issue with crossing at (back again to) Hurstville.

I need to know though...it is clear that Warragamba is assaultable from both Camden and Blue Mountains National Park?
Last edited by cairnswk on Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [21.4.12] P6-V9 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:44 pm

Looks good cairns...
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [21.4.12] P6-V9 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:15 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:Looks good cairns...


nolefan5311, is this issue clear...?
I need to know though...it is clear that Warragamba is assaultable from both Camden and Blue Mountains National Park?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [22.4.12] P6-V10 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:19 pm

Version 10

I've changed the Southern Highlands continent and split it in two to reflect better the area down there.

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [21.4.12] P6-V9 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:48 pm

cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Looks good cairns...


nolefan5311, is this issue clear...?
I need to know though...it is clear that Warragamba is assaultable from both Camden and Blue Mountains National Park?


Yeah, I had no problem distinguishing that. Do you intend to make the bridge between the Warragamba and Blue Mountain regions the same as the other bridges? Might be better for you to do that for uniformity across the map. Maybe position the bridge in the very bottom SE corner of Blue Mountain and the little peninsula on Warragamba. Just some suggestions though, it looks fine as it is.

I'm discussing the gameplay now with ian, but those conversations might have to restart with the new bonus zone :D
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [21.4.12] P6-V9 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:44 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Looks good cairns...


nolefan5311, is this issue clear...?
I need to know though...it is clear that Warragamba is assaultable from both Camden and Blue Mountains National Park?


Yeah, I had no problem distinguishing that.

Excellent

Do you intend to make the bridge between the Warragamba and Blue Mountain regions the same as the other bridges? Might be better for you to do that for uniformity across the map. Maybe position the bridge in the very bottom SE corner of Blue Mountain and the little peninsula on Warragamba. Just some suggestions though, it looks fine as it is.

Actually it's a sort of bridge high on the Warragambe Dam wall (Sydney's main Water supply). ;)
but there is no public road access, but an army could cross it in battle.
So, i wouldn't want to change it to one of the other access bridges. I have done a small bit of graphic that defines it better as a dam with coloured connections similar to the other bridges...please Alt + F5.

I'm discussing the gameplay now with ian, but those conversations might have to restart with the new bonus zone
:D

Oh, OK, i'm sorry, but i just wasn't happy about that area, the regions and the names i had put in intially.

There is also another possibllity i want to bring up...and that is there is a connection highway between Bilpin and Katoomba which includes several small villages.
I could include it, but i don't know if it would be beneficial to gameplay for those bordering regions.
If included, it would have to be another region by itself, and this could make the map too large.
What are your's and ian's thoughts on that one?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [22.4.12] P6-V10 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:09 pm

I really like the new bridge connection. The color variation on it really adds a nice look to it.

As far as the villages between Bilpin and Katoomba, I don't think it would hurt the gameplay, but it's sort of abstract right now, so it's hard for me to offer too much of an opinion. I will say that right now, with 68 regions, we're going to have a lot of work with bonus dropping and there may be several suggested revisions. I've only begun preliminary work on determining the proper bonuses per continent...haven't delved far into the bonus dropping at all yet. As is, in 1v1, we're looking at 22 regions per player to begin the game. If that's increased to around 72, the drop increases to 24 regions per player, which is a very large number. That might cause some issues in 1v1. Let me know if you want to proceed with adding those additional regions and ian and I will discuss.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [22.4.12] P6-V10 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:32 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:I really like the new bridge connection. The color variation on it really adds a nice look to it.

As far as the villages between Bilpin and Katoomba, I don't think it would hurt the gameplay, but it's sort of abstract right now, so it's hard for me to offer too much of an opinion. I will say that right now, with 68 regions, we're going to have a lot of work with bonus dropping and there may be several suggested revisions. I've only begun preliminary work on determining the proper bonuses per continent...haven't delved far into the bonus dropping at all yet. As is, in 1v1, we're looking at 22 regions per player to begin the game. If that's increased to around 72, the drop increases to 24 regions per player, which is a very large number. That might cause some issues in 1v1. Let me know if you want to proceed with adding those additional regions and ian and I will discuss.


Well, no, it was only a thought i had, but i see that there is already a large number of territs so let's leave it as is.
No more additions....promise. :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [22.4.12] P6-V10 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:55 pm

With the new layout above,

I count 72 territs...
less 6 Neutrals on 3 or less regions:
La Perouse
Marrickville
Sydney
Narrabeen
Blue Mtns N.P.
and Marramarra N.P. North
= 66 (Golden number) ?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [22.4.12] P6-V10 Gameplay?

Postby pamoa on Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:55 am

66 is acceptable
but 71 is better
maybe you should code all those 3 territories regions as starting position
having so much territories neutral at the start is always a pity on a "normal" gameplay map
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [22.4.12] P6-V10 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:50 am

pamoa wrote:66 is acceptable
but 71 is better
maybe you should code all those 3 territories regions as starting position
having so much territories neutral at the start is always a pity on a "normal" gameplay map

Would it then have classic gameplay?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [22.4.12] P6-V10 Gameplay?

Postby pamoa on Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:57 am

coding them as starting position is only there to ensure no drop bonus
but the gameplay is perfectly normal
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [22.4.12] P6-V10 Gameplay?

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:48 am

I've run the bonus spreadsheet on the latest version of the map and this is what I came up with.

The bonus for SE Suburbs needs to be reduced from 4 to 3.

The bonus for Southern Beaches needs to be reduced from 2 to 1. There's only 1 region (2 attack points) to defend.

The bonus for Northern Beaches needs to be reduced by at least 1, possibly 2. You might also want to extend the border of Palm Beach and Kuringal all the way so they meet. It's slightly confusing how they border right now.

National Parks needs to be reduced from 4 to 3.

Also, you may wish to add an impassable (probably some of those mountains) between Leura and Jamison Valley (it's incorrectly spelled on the map, I've seen it spelled Jamison Valley and Jamieson Valley, but not the way you have it). The spreadsheet is suggesting that bonus be a +3, but ian is hesitant to increase it, so adding the impassable between Leura and Jamison Valley would solve that problem.

And let me know what you want to do about coding some of those positions as starting neutrals, but in all likelihood, we're going to suggest it to you anyway once I've run the bonus drop spreadsheet. Makes it easier on me to know that the following continents automatically won't be dropped bonuses, and will probably make it easier on you since it appears you're already willing to code these start positions as neutral:

Eastern Suburbs (La Perouse, though you will probably need to change this to Bondi)
SE Suburbs (Marrickville)
Sydney - City
Northern Beaches (Narrabeen)
Blue Mountains National Park - (bonus of same name)
National Parks - Marramarra N.P North
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [22.4.12] P6-V10 Gameplay?

Postby chapcrap on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:03 am

The latest update is good for seeing the bonuses better. I'm still not the biggest fan of the raised numbers that are the same color as their background. But, it is better.

I think the whole background on the left would be better if it wasn't that shade of blue/green. Perhaps you can have something that represents Syndey being the background in that section.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [25.4.12] P6-V11 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:23 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:I've run the bonus spreadsheet on the latest version of the map and this is what I came up with.

The bonus for SE Suburbs needs to be reduced from 4 to 3.

The bonus for Southern Beaches needs to be reduced from 2 to 1. There's only 1 region (2 attack points) to defend.

The bonus for Northern Beaches needs to be reduced by at least 1, possibly 2. You might also want to extend the border of Palm Beach and Kuringal all the way so they meet. It's slightly confusing how they border right now.

National Parks needs to be reduced from 4 to 3.

Done.

Also, you may wish to add an impassable (probably some of those mountains) between Leura and Jamison Valley (it's incorrectly spelled on the map, I've seen it spelled Jamison Valley and Jamieson Valley, but not the way you have it). The spreadsheet is suggesting that bonus be a +3, but ian is hesitant to increase it, so adding the impassable between Leura and Jamison Valley would solve that problem.

yes there are mountains which Leura sits atop and there is a cable car into the Jamison Valley.
However, i have created mountains to make the Jamison Valley look like there is a valley there, but i'm not in favour of the impassable mountains there, so have created a link between the dam territory and Jamison Valley so it is easier to assault in there, and the impassable is now between Jamison Valley and Blue Mnts N.P.



And let me know what you want to do about coding some of those positions as starting neutrals, but in all likelihood, we're going to suggest it to you anyway once I've run the bonus drop spreadsheet. Makes it easier on me to know that the following continents automatically won't be dropped bonuses, and will probably make it easier on you since it appears you're already willing to code these start positions as neutral:

Eastern Suburbs (La Perouse, though you will probably need to change this to Bondi)
SE Suburbs (Marrickville)
Sydney - City
Northern Beaches (Narrabeen)
Blue Mountains National Park - (bonus of same name)
National Parks - Marramarra N.P North


Neutral starts are placed as above.
thanks for yours and ian's work on this. :)

chapcrap wrote:The latest update is good for seeing the bonuses better. I'm still not the biggest fan of the raised numbers that are the same color as their background. But, it is better.

I think the whole background on the left would be better if it wasn't that shade of blue/green. Perhaps you can have something that represents Syndey being the background in that section.

chapcrap...i'm not infavour of loosing that green left side as the background of the legend since it represents the combined colour of the Blue Mnts and the Gum leaves.

I have however, re-organised some legend for you and there are now 4 iconic images of Sydney on the map.
One needs no explanation.
The Opera house is not going on this map as it already on the Sydney Metro map.

Version 11.

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CB Version 11 added to front page
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... 11S_cb.jpg
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [25.4.12] P6-V11 Gameplay?

Postby army of nobunaga on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:48 pm

I like this old school classical risk map feel.

This is another map I need to look at more hours to get an idea on gameplay
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [25.4.12] P6-V11 Gameplay?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:26 pm

army of nobunaga wrote:I like this old school classical risk map feel.
...

Cool.

Are there any other comments re gameplay then?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Sydney [22.4.12] P6-V10 Gameplay?

Postby pamoa on Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:53 am

I would suggest you change the following neutrals
as I think it is better if key connecting point are "active"
else they become blocking point
and can give a big advantage to some player with a good concentrated drop

Eastern Suburbs = Bondi
SE Suburbs = Marrickville
Sydney = City
Northern Beaches = (Narrabeen) Palm Beach is better as it is not blocking the access to the kayak line
Blue Mountains National Park = (Blue Mountains National Park) Jamison Valley is better as BMNP is an hot point
National Parks = Marramarra National Parks North
de gueules à la tour d'argent ouverte, crénelée de trois pièces, sommée d'un donjon ajouré, crénelé de deux pièces
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