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Re: Mega USA Map [9 Oct 2011] V7 pg 7

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:49 pm

Ok, here we have completed Alaska and Hawaii!

By my count we now have:
1. All 50 states - the only USA map with all 50
2. 14 Interstates
3. 6 Bonus Regions
For a total of a WHOPPING 70 bonuses that you can choose from - I believe this is the most of any CC map in play.

I was thinking of having a max reinforcement of 18 men. That works out to holding 54 territories, just under a third of the map.

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Re: Mega USA Map [9 Oct 2011] V7 pg 7

Postby Peter Gibbons on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:53 pm

This is a bit down the road, but...

isaiah40 wrote:Alaska Cities:
    1. Anchorage
    2. Fairbanks
    3. Juneau
    4. Tok
Tok will connect to Great Falls Montana (MT) and Bellingham Washington (WA)
I understand why you'd use a small city like Tok based on the geography, but shouldn't Juneau connect to the mainland? It's further south than Tok. Perhaps connect Juneau to Bellingham or Seattle via ferry? Then connect Tok to Great Falls or Post Falls? You could also then add Barrow or Nome as a 5th interior Alaskan city since the northern part of the state would be empty.

EDIT: I see you just added Alaska so this isn't that far down the road after all! Seeing how it's been placed, I'm even more convinced now of this suggestion. In fact, given the spacing, I might advocate adding Nome and Barrow. Alaska is mighty big, after all.

And alternative idea, by the way, is making only one land/ferry connection to Alaska and then making Honolulu and Anchorage connected via plane. Not one I prefer, but just throwing it out there.
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Re: Mega USA Map [9 Oct 2011] V7 pg 7

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:02 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:I understand why you'd use a small city like Tok based on the geography, but shouldn't Juneau connect to the mainland? It's further south than Tok. Perhaps connect Juneau to Bellingham or Seattle via ferry? Then connect Tok to Great Falls or Post Falls? You could also then add Barrow or Nome as a 5th interior Alaskan city since the northern part of the state would be empty.

EDIT: I see you just added Alaska so this isn't that far down the road after all! Seeing how it's been placed, I'm even more convinced now of this suggestion. In fact, given the spacing, I might advocate adding Nome and Barrow. Alaska is mighty big, after all.

And alternative idea, by the way, is making only one land/ferry connection to Alaska and then making Honolulu and Anchorage connected via plane. Not one I prefer, but just throwing it out there.


These ideas are good ones. Though I think I will keep Tok connect to Great Falls as it is more of a direct route rather than Post Falls. I was thinking of adding in Nome, but since there isn't a road to Nome, I figured on leaving it out. The Alaska - Honolulu connection could work, as a matter of fact I even thought about it. I decided against it because 1)there is already a lot going on, and 2)I didn't want to start adding in airports all over the place when you are suppose to be traveling by road for the most part. The exception is Hawaii for obvious reasons. But I'll leave it open for discussion and see what others have to say.
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby MarshalNey on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:18 pm

Juneau is landlocked- surrounded by mountains, at least it was when I visited as a kid. One can only reasonably get there by air or sea, so an overland route doesn't make as much sense. However it might be nice to have a sea route from there to Washington state (that is, Seattle- which incidentally shouldn't be inland at all... being an international port. Not to make a fuss but it's very odd, I lived there for 6 months and it's very much connected to the sea).

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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby Peter Gibbons on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:52 pm

My thoughts on the issues raised above...

1) I understand the fact that Nome (and Barrow, if that's in the discussion) cannot be reached via normal roads and that this is supposed to be a map based on road travel. But with Hawai'i, you are allowing inter-island travel so I think the same sort of exception should be applied to Alaska. You don't have to say how (it could be a snowmobile route), but I don't think anyone would have any complaints if Nome or Barrow were connected. I'd argue for both, with an increase in the bonus value.

2) Looking at both your map and how the geography works, I understand the Tok-Great Falls connection and agree with it. I think the other connection should be Juneau-to-Seattle (either via ferry or air). That would allow for at least 2 entry points into Alaska and wouldn't create a bottleneck in Tok.

3) I would only advocate the Honolulu-Anchorage air route if you grow the size of Alaska and feel the need for it to have a third entry point. It's certainly not an idea I'm wedded to and I completely understand the reluctance to add too many air routes. In fact, if you do add such a connection, it might make sense to remove the Honolulu-San Francisco connection, as California certainly already has enough entry points and Hawai'i doesn't really need three. But again, this issue is one I'm more ambivalent on compared to the others.
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby Flapcake on Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:29 am

Hi Isaiah

Where is the most famous route in the world? route 66
I think it deserves a place on your beautiful map, there are people who travel from the other side of the world only to follow Route 66 across the U.S.

Flap.
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:40 am

MarshalNey wrote:Juneau is landlocked- surrounded by mountains, at least it was when I visited as a kid. One can only reasonably get there by air or sea, so an overland route doesn't make as much sense. However it might be nice to have a sea route from there to Washington state (that is, Seattle- which incidentally shouldn't be inland at all... being an international port. Not to make a fuss but it's very odd, I lived there for 6 months and it's very much connected to the sea).

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Seattle can be easily changed and the ferry route to Juneau will be added.

Peter Gibbons wrote:My thoughts on the issues raised above...

1) I understand the fact that Nome (and Barrow, if that's in the discussion) cannot be reached via normal roads and that this is supposed to be a map based on road travel. But with Hawai'i, you are allowing inter-island travel so I think the same sort of exception should be applied to Alaska. You don't have to say how (it could be a snowmobile route), but I don't think anyone would have any complaints if Nome or Barrow were connected. I'd argue for both, with an increase in the bonus value.

2) Looking at both your map and how the geography works, I understand the Tok-Great Falls connection and agree with it. I think the other connection should be Juneau-to-Seattle (either via ferry or air). That would allow for at least 2 entry points into Alaska and wouldn't create a bottleneck in Tok.

3) I would only advocate the Honolulu-Anchorage air route if you grow the size of Alaska and feel the need for it to have a third entry point. It's certainly not an idea I'm wedded to and I completely understand the reluctance to add too many air routes. In fact, if you do add such a connection, it might make sense to remove the Honolulu-San Francisco connection, as California certainly already has enough entry points and Hawai'i doesn't really need three. But again, this issue is one I'm more ambivalent on compared to the others.

Good points. I think these will work out better in the long run. Instead of Barrow, how about if I put in Prudhoe Bay? it may be smaller, but to me I;ve heard of Prudhoe Bay more than Barrow, and there is a road that runs from Fairbanks to Prudhoe Bay. To differentiate the connections between Honolulu/Anchorage/Los Angeles and either Fairbanks/Nome or Anchorage/Nome, I think a heliport would be good. I'm leaning towards the Fairbanks/Nome connection. Now that I think about it, I can add in Barrow as well. That will give us 7 cities in Alaska, 3 connected by heliport. Sound good?
Flapcake wrote:Hi Isaiah

Where is the most famous route in the world? route 66
I think it deserves a place on your beautiful map, there are people who travel from the other side of the world only to follow Route 66 across the U.S.

Flap.

Not on this map, it would be way to cramped to add it in.
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby Gilligan on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:12 am

How come you changed some of the territory names?
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Re: Mega USA Map [9 Oct 2011] V7 pg 7

Postby DiM on Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:01 am

isaiah40 wrote:For a total of a WHOPPING 70 bonuses that you can choose from - I believe this is the most of any CC map in play.



i don't think it's anywhere near.
i'm not sure about other maps but on AoM or AoR the bonus combinations far exceed 70.
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:45 pm

Gilligan wrote:How come you changed some of the territory names?

Well because when everything got reduced to this size (that is the individual states) some of the name weren't fitting properly.

DiM wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:For a total of a WHOPPING 70 bonuses that you can choose from - I believe this is the most of any CC map in play.



i don't think it's anywhere near.
i'm not sure about other maps but on AoM or AoR the bonus combinations far exceed 70.

I didn't go and start counting bonuses on those maps, that is why I said "I believe". Can anyone say for sure how many bonuses are on thos emaps?
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby DiM on Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:06 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
DiM wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:For a total of a WHOPPING 70 bonuses that you can choose from - I believe this is the most of any CC map in play.



i don't think it's anywhere near.
i'm not sure about other maps but on AoM or AoR the bonus combinations far exceed 70.

I didn't go and start counting bonuses on those maps, that is why I said "I believe". Can anyone say for sure how many bonuses are on thos emaps?



let me try for AoM.

1 pair can be taken to 6 different markets, that's 6 bonuses multiplied by 6 pairs that's a total of 36 bonuses.
then it can also be taken to factories so that's another 36 bonuses.

also there's the port and pirate cove which forms 9 bonuses. so that's a total of 81. hmmm i thought that it would be much more.


let me try AoR3. this one surely has a lot of bonuses.

6 castles + sanctuary = 7 bonuses
each castle/sanctuary can be paired with a power rune to form a bonus and there are 12 runes. so that's 7*12=84
each castle/sanctuary forms a bonus with a village and we have 13 villages so that's another 91 bonuses.
each castle/sanctuary forms a bonus with a blood water and there are 7 of them so that's 49 bonuses.
so far that's a total of 231 bonuses and there are still the various terit bonuses like holding 4 terits from pit fiends or the entire human realm and so on. but i don't want to calculate those combinations. so it's enough to say there are over 231 bonuses on AoR3. :mrgreen:
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:36 am

Yeah, but AoM bonuses are so uncool and last-last-last-year. ;)

==============

Overall, I like the direction the map is going. If it makes it through, I'd probably play it some since I've been fond of the USA Map Pack. Keep it up.


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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby Peter Gibbons on Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:59 pm

isaiah40 wrote:Good points. I think these will work out better in the long run.

Thanks.
Instead of Barrow, how about if I put in Prudhoe Bay? it may be smaller, but to me I;ve heard of Prudhoe Bay more than Barrow, and there is a road that runs from Fairbanks to Prudhoe Bay.

I've got no horse in the battle. Only suggested Barrow because of its extreme nature--I actually figured it was more well-known but makes no difference to me.

To differentiate the connections between Honolulu/Anchorage/Los Angeles and either Fairbanks/Nome or Anchorage/Nome, I think a heliport would be good.

Heliport for the Northern Alaskan territories probably makes the most sense. Not to complicate the matter, but you might want to make Tok-Great Falls a helicopter route, since otherwise it's the only connection that goes over Canadian land. That might not be a concern or it might mean too many heliport graphics, though.

I'm leaning towards the Fairbanks/Nome connection.

I've only spent very little time in Alaska, but it seems to me this makes more sense than Anchorage-to-Nome.

Now that I think about it, I can add in Barrow as well. That will give us 7 cities in Alaska, 3 connected by heliport. Sound good?
If it's not too crowded in the north, sure. But wouldn't that make 4 of them connected by heliport? You would need Fairbanks as a base to go north, then you'd have Nome, Prudhoe Bay and Barrow. That's 4 heliports in Alaska (and that's ignoring my Tok-to-Great Falls suggestion). That might be too many. Maybe just put heliports in Nome, Prudhoe Bay and Fairbanks and allow them all to attack each other. Then connect Fairbanks to Anchorage and Tok via road.
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:34 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:If it's not too crowded in the north, sure. But wouldn't that make 4 of them connected by heliport? You would need Fairbanks as a base to go north, then you'd have Nome, Prudhoe Bay and Barrow. That's 4 heliports in Alaska (and that's ignoring my Tok-to-Great Falls suggestion). That might be too many. Maybe just put heliports in Nome, Prudhoe Bay and Fairbanks and allow them all to attack each other. Then connect Fairbanks to Anchorage and Tok via road.


The heliports will only connect Fairbanks with Nome and Barrows as Fairbanks - Prudhoe Bay will a connection by road.
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby Peter Gibbons on Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:09 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
Peter Gibbons wrote:If it's not too crowded in the north, sure. But wouldn't that make 4 of them connected by heliport? You would need Fairbanks as a base to go north, then you'd have Nome, Prudhoe Bay and Barrow. That's 4 heliports in Alaska (and that's ignoring my Tok-to-Great Falls suggestion). That might be too many. Maybe just put heliports in Nome, Prudhoe Bay and Fairbanks and allow them all to attack each other. Then connect Fairbanks to Anchorage and Tok via road.


The heliports will only connect Fairbanks with Nome and Barrows as Fairbanks - Prudhoe Bay will a connection by road.
Makes sense.

For Prudhoe Bay, Fairbanks and Barrow, do you plan to have any of them connect to each other, or will all three just feed into Fairbanks? If you care about real-life accuracy, it looks like Barrow and Prudhoe Bay have a regular air connection:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrow,_Al ... sportation
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:42 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:For Prudhoe Bay, Fairbanks and Barrow, do you plan to have any of them connect to each other, or will all three just feed into Fairbanks? If you care about real-life accuracy, it looks like Barrow and Prudhoe Bay have a regular air connection:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrow,_Al ... sportation


Well considering they will have the heliports, then they all will connect to each other, with Prudhoe Bay being the odd town out which I think is okay. So you will be able to attack Barrow from Nome and Fairbanks and vice versa.

So I think we can agree on this:
Airports:
Honolulu - Los Angeles
Honolulu - Anchorage
Los Angeles - Anchorage
Heliports:
Fairbanks - Nome
Fairbanks - Barrow
Barrow - Nome
Sea Routes:
Juneau - Seattle

Which I believe will give just enough movement between those far away places, and make them just a little harder to hold.
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby Peter Gibbons on Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:51 pm

I think all of that looks good. My only question at this point is whether or not the Tok-to-Great Falls connection is even necessary any longer?

If you can get in via Juneau and Anchorage and if you can make it from Seattle, Los Angeles and Honolulu, it might be something that could be sacrificed (plus it's a 2,100m journey, which I think would easily make it the longest road connection on the board)
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:07 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:I think all of that looks good. My only question at this point is whether or not the Tok-to-Great Falls connection is even necessary any longer?

If you can get in via Juneau and Anchorage and if you can make it from Seattle, Los Angeles and Honolulu, it might be something that could be sacrificed (plus it's a 2,100m journey, which I think would easily make it the longest road connection on the board)


LOL! Well yes it would be wouldn't it? Which made me think of - not to make it any more complicated - adding in the Alaska Highway. Form Dawson Creek British Columbia to Anchorage. Let's see, Dawson Creek, Fort Nelson, Whitehorse, Delta Junction. I can have each one a decay due to blowing your horn at the moose and getting your car totalled!
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby Peter Gibbons on Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:47 pm

Funny, I was actually going to suggest an overland Canadian route a few posts ago, with a -1 bonus on each territory per turn, like on the Greenland map (call it a negative Canadian bonus).

I figured some might object to including a couple Canadian routes on a "Mega USA" map. Even if that's not a problem, though, I think the spacing makes it tough. British Columbia is very big after all and Alaska is technically supposed to be way up there. I don't know how you could accomplish it while keeping it anywhere close to scale. But if you like the idea and think it could work, it might be another cool quirk to add.

A different discussion that might be worth having is whether or not any additional sea routes would be useful in the Gulf of Mexico, Great Lakes or on the Atlantic. You inherently have had to add connections to combine the six maps from the pack. But Florida and Maine have some dead ends that you might be able to develop by connecting to New Orleans or Boston. Just spit-balling a little and not really brainstorming yet. Connections would have to make logical sense, help gameplay, and fit on the map (which might be difficult with Maine). But it's certainly worth exploring at some point.

Minor point I just noticed while perusing the map. You've spelled "Worcester" incorrectly in Massachusetts. Relative to that point, I'm sure you can't wait for the debates over which municipalities to use in situations where the location is changing. Everyone is going to have an opinion!
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Re: Mega USA Map [11 Oct 2011] V8 pg 8

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:22 pm

This is too funny, version number matches page number.

Anyways, still adding in the highways, added in the 3 more towns to Alaska connected by heliport. Tweaked the colors on the Rocky Mountain bonus region, I think it looks a whole lot better.

Still need to finish adding in all the state highways, finish adding in all the bonus values into the legend. Also will need to tweak all the other bonus region colors. Need to know about adding in a couple of other cross map connections.
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Re: Mega USA Map [14 Oct 2011] V9 pg 9

Postby Gillipig on Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:34 am

Too many symbols in Alaska! I suggest you make it look like the other bonuses without any helicopters. Make 1 connection to the mainland through boat and 1 through airplane. Same thing in Hawaii. I think that would make it fair and not as messy.
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Re: Mega USA Map [14 Oct 2011] V9 pg 9

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:00 am

Have to agree with Gillipig on the symbol overload. Remove the helicopters and use the roads.

As for cross map movement, if you want it, use D.C. (still a +1 auto I presume) with something like all airports connect to D.C. So right now you get, Honolulu, Anchorage, Los Angeles and D.C. all connecting. Should make for some interesting moves.
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Re: Mega USA Map [14 Oct 2011] V9 pg 9

Postby cairnswk on Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:48 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Have to agree with Gillipig on the symbol overload. Remove the helicopters and use the roads.

Are there any roads in that part of Alaska? that warrants the removal of the helicopters.

For symbol overload...i tried to find New York and couldn't see it for that highway symbol.
i'd like to see the highway symbols removed unless you plan on using them for bonuses. i think they're too much extra on such a cramped map.

As for cross map movement, if you want it, use D.C. (still a +1 auto I presume) with something like all airports connect to D.C. So right now you get, Honolulu, Anchorage, Los Angeles and D.C. all connecting. Should make for some interesting moves.

How about NYC to Chicago to Seattle and Newark to Atlanta to SFO as well.

isaiah40, i was concerned about the size of the army circles and checked them and you've done well at 18px there, but the stars come in at 16px and that might be a squeeze.

I must say you're doing this project extremely well and i'm amazed that it is all fitting in. i like that you've included Alaska and Hawaii also.

I have an issue with the bright colours of the States...they are very bright and will perhaps need some opacity cover later.

i also think this map shouldn't be in drafts still, we all know what you map intentions are and right now you're developing gameplay as well as still putting it all together...so i say it could do with a Draft Stamp and a move! :)
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Re: Mega USA Map [14 Oct 2011] V9 pg 9

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:52 pm

Gillipig wrote:Too many symbols in Alaska! I suggest you make it look like the other bonuses without any helicopters. Make 1 connection to the mainland through boat and 1 through airplane. Same thing in Hawaii. I think that would make it fair and not as messy.

Well considering there are no roads going from Fairbanks to either Nome or Barrow, this is the most logical solution.
koontz1973 wrote:Have to agree with Gillipig on the symbol overload. Remove the helicopters and use the roads.

As for cross map movement, if you want it, use D.C. (still a +1 auto I presume) with something like all airports connect to D.C. So right now you get, Honolulu, Anchorage, Los Angeles and D.C. all connecting. Should make for some interesting moves.

See above. I'm not too sure about having an airport on D.C.. I think it would that player too much of an advantage with the +1 autodeploy.
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koontz1973 wrote:Have to agree with Gillipig on the symbol overload. Remove the helicopters and use the roads.

Are there any roads in that part of Alaska? that warrants the removal of the helicopters.

See above.

cairnswk wrote:For symbol overload...i tried to find New York and couldn't see it for that highway symbol.
i'd like to see the highway symbols removed unless you plan on using them for bonuses. i think they're too much extra on such a cramped map.

Yes I will be using the Interstate system as bonuses as well.

cairnswk wrote:
As for cross map movement, if you want it, use D.C. (still a +1 auto I presume) with something like all airports connect to D.C. So right now you get, Honolulu, Anchorage, Los Angeles and D.C. all connecting. Should make for some interesting moves.

How about NYC to Chicago to Seattle and Newark to Atlanta to SFO as well.

I was thinking of Chicago and JFK. Atlanta would be good, giving a player an opportunity to get to the southeast. Newark well I think I'll leave that one out. SFO, to not make the map any more cluttered, how about if I just leave that one out. So that would mean you would have 6 airports all connected to each other, thus making cross map travel a little easier. I like this!

cairnswk wrote:isaiah40, i was concerned about the size of the army circles and checked them and you've done well at 18px there, but the stars come in at 16px and that might be a squeeze.

I must say you're doing this project extremely well and i'm amazed that it is all fitting in. i like that you've included Alaska and Hawaii also.

I have an issue with the bright colours of the States...they are very bright and will perhaps need some opacity cover later.

Thank you!! With the stars, I think that with the numbers on them, you will still them and know that they are stars. I posted a snapshot earlier with the 888's on the circles and stars earlier to show that everything was fitting in. As for the bright colors of the states, I was trying to stay with the colors from the map pack, but with everything going on, I have to redo the colors. I'm leaning on the brighter colors for the states and the darker colors for the interstates and secondary highways. If I go for slightly darker/subdued/desaturated colors for the states, then I would go with brighter colors for the highways. I think that bright states and dark highways is the ways to go here, as I can use black for the secondary highways with a slight outer glow, which won't conflict with any of the interstates.

cairnswk wrote:i also think this map shouldn't be in drafts still, we all know what you map intentions are and right now you're developing gameplay as well as still putting it all together...so i say it could do with a Draft Stamp and a move! :)

Yea well since I can't do it myself, I just have to wait for one of the FA's to do it.
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Re: Mega USA Map [16 Oct 2011] V10 pg 9

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:24 pm

Okay, finally finished off all the highways and the legend area - though it still needs work. Separated Alaska and Hawaii out and placed them in their own bonus region. Started adding in the interstate bonuses.

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