Trench warfare 1917 [Quenched]

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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby Pyrhhus on Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:06 pm

Hi. I've played this map on a few different 1v1 setups and I have some thoughts on the latest.

I do not like the idea of every player territory starting with one troop. If the players are going to start with 14 regions that means players will only have those 4 troops for attacking the first turn. This means there is about a 30% chance the attacker lose 2 troops on the first roll and have to be done or risk the much lower odds of winning a 2v2 roll. This makes the early game of a 1v1 quite tenuous because if one person can take a region first turn and get to 15 regions while the other gets stuck at 14, especially if the unlucky person goes second, this can create a large advantage because bonuses are quite difficult for an opponent to break in the first few turns. This opportunity for a large early lead is a lot to hinge on just one roll each.

Additionally, the possibility of having only one die roll the first turn is pretty unfun. The traditional CC beginning of 3 starting troops plus 3 to deploy ensures at least two die rolls first turn, providing much greater odds that the player will make at least some headway toward his/her goals. Also, starting with only one troop on each region provides very few options for reinforcement. This exacerbates the problem of the lucky (or simply not unlucky) player getting a large early advantage as well as further reducing feelings of player inefficacy.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:49 am

So you would like the starting troops to go up to 3 for each of the territs. How about two for now and then we can go up to 3 later if that does not solve it for you.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby Pyrhhus on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:56 am

koontz1973 wrote:So you would like the starting troops to go up to 3 for each of the territs. How about two for now and then we can go up to 3 later if that does not solve it for you.


As I see it there are several possible solutions.

1) Increase the starting troops per region to 2 or 3. This would fix the one-roll issue, as well as give players some options for reinforcement.

2) Increase the number of starting regions. If each player started with 15 that would fix the one-roll issue and also give a little bit of a cushion in terms of early dice luck. With 15 starting regions a player would not be punished so hard for first turn bad luck as it is very unlikely an opponent would be able to take the necessary three regions for an upgrade in troops due.

3) Lower the neutral troops on the non-bombarding regions. I like that the planes and artillery have a high neutral count because they are very powerful, but if you want to keep the starting troops at 1 for players then lowering the neutrals could be a good way to make it so the players can do more stuff - e.g. take regions, take bonuses, get cards, etc.

4) Some combination of the above options. I don't think it's a good idea to both lower the neutrals and increase the player starting troops, but some other combination may be worth considering.

I think it is also important to note that I have literally no experience with map design. As such I would like to know the reasons why you made the map this way so I can better understand what you are trying to do. I like the layout and the overall idea that each player builds up until one decides to "go over" and then they slug it out, I just think the starting settings need some tweak(s). As far as what that tweak should be, I am unsure.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby Flapcake on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:30 am

Pyrhhus wrote:I would like to know the reasons why you made the map this way so I can better understand what you are trying to do. I like the layout and the overall idea that each player builds up until one decides to "go over" and then they slug it out, I just think the starting settings need some tweak(s). As far as what that tweak should be, I am unsure.


Hi Pyrhhus, thanks for your consern with in this map, for me it seem that you do understand the map, becourse what you describes is about it, "each player builds up until one decides to "go over" and then they slug it out" what they did in WW1 at the front trenches, and so was the hole idea of this map, not to construct a specific battle from WW1, but to get a feeling of how cruel trench war was.

Now for you suggestion, I like your ideas and Im up for 3 troops insted of 1 and leave rest as it is. Need to hear out Koontz for this ;)
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:58 am

3 it will be then. On holiday now but will get it done as soon as I am back. We have time to get it done though. ;)
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby sparkyball on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:58 pm

I'm in a game on this map and am trying to understand how someone was able to jump into the GFH area in the back corner without going thru our foxholes..... stupid question I know but my partner and I are both staring at map to figure it out all of our territories surrounding the area are still there but its like he jumped right into the middle of us and not just bombarding but actually put guys there.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby Flapcake on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:18 pm

sparkyball wrote:I'm in a game on this map and am trying to understand how someone was able to jump into the GFH area in the back corner without going thru our foxholes..... stupid question I know but my partner and I are both staring at map to figure it out all of our territories surrounding the area are still there but its like he jumped right into the middle of us and not just bombarding but actually put guys there.


Sounds wierd, its not posible to teleport on this map, maby he got some kind og hacktool I dont know :lol:

I think you have missed him standing there ;)
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:12 am

sparkyball wrote:I'm in a game on this map and am trying to understand how someone was able to jump into the GFH area in the back corner without going thru our foxholes..... stupid question I know but my partner and I are both staring at map to figure it out all of our territories surrounding the area are still there but its like he jumped right into the middle of us and not just bombarding but actually put guys there.


If the game isn't fogged, can you provide a game number?
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby boow on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:55 pm

I am currently playing a game on this map with the trench game play option in effect.

Isn't it possible that if the two players are exclusively on each side of the trench, there would be no way to finish the game, as it is impossible to move across the trench without being able to attack from a newly won territory.

its a fun map, but not sure it can work with the trench warfare option in effect.

thanks!
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:38 pm

boow wrote:I am currently playing a game on this map with the trench game play option in effect.

Isn't it possible that if the two players are exclusively on each side of the trench, there would be no way to finish the game, as it is impossible to move across the trench without being able to attack from a newly won territory.

its a fun map, but not sure it can work with the trench warfare option in effect.

thanks!

Killer neutrals are exempt from trench rules. You can continue to attack until you get to a normal territory.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:38 pm

xml raising the starting troops to 3 in 1v1 games.
Trenchmapv1.xml
(35.59 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:40 pm

Sent to lackattack!

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby Jippd on Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:41 am

My thoughts are on 1 v 1 game that I played with a friend.

I thought this map was meant to be played on trench. I realized that you can't though since no mans land means you cant move across the NM area. Since there are spots on the map that can't be bombarded the game can and would be a stalemate. Am I missing something?
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:43 am

Jippd wrote:My thoughts are on 1 v 1 game that I played with a friend.

I thought this map was meant to be played on trench. I realized that you can't though since no mans land means you cant move across the NM area. Since there are spots on the map that can't be bombarded the game can and would be a stalemate. Am I missing something?

Yes, trench setting allows you to carry on moving when you attack a killer neutral.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:57 am

koontz1973 wrote:
Jippd wrote:My thoughts are on 1 v 1 game that I played with a friend.

I thought this map was meant to be played on trench. I realized that you can't though since no mans land means you cant move across the NM area. Since there are spots on the map that can't be bombarded the game can and would be a stalemate. Am I missing something?

Yes, trench setting allows you to carry on moving when you attack a killer neutral.


:roll:

It's amazing how many times this question has come up in this thread. The same question was literally answered 4 posts before your post.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:15 am

nolefan5311 wrote:It's amazing how many times this question has come up in this thread. The same question was literally answered 4 posts before your post.


Anyone taking bets on how many more times it will be asked?

Something needs to be done, not on this map but in general over this trench setting. :-s
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:53 am

koontz1973 wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:It's amazing how many times this question has come up in this thread. The same question was literally answered 4 posts before your post.


Anyone taking bets on how many more times it will be asked?

Something needs to be done, not on this map but in general over this trench setting. :-s

Nothing needs to be done because:
  • People don't want to read or,
  • they don't know where to go
Anyone can read the instructions on, well, the instructions page!
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:27 am

Never knew that was there.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby Jippd on Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:05 pm

Sorry nole but I am very busy in real life and don't have time to read any posts and barely have time for playing as of late. I did not have the time to read this thread but I did have time to come here and post that. I should have realized you can advance past killer neutrals because I knew that already but it was late after a 12 hour shift of work and my brain wasn't working. Just because you have all day to devote to reading threads upon threads does not mean everyone else in the world does buddy :). Consider being more positive and less negative.

So I'm assuming by interpreting your post that your point is that I should have read the whole thread or even the posts above my post. I didn't have time for that with my real life schedule so I'm sorry that me asking the question offended you so much. I'll make sure to never post in the forums again unless I have read all previous posts in a thread because that is obviously a requirement of a forum.

Thank you koontz for politely answering the question.

You need to realize that most of the users on conquer club do not check the forums constantly and spend hours upon hours on here a day. When you are negative to people that post in the forums because you figure they should know better because it is all over the forums you are wrong. A majority of the users I would be willing to bet barely check the forums or even know how to navigate them.

It may be irritating to you to see "repeat" questions on the site because you spend an obscene amount of time on here, but you should not assume that everyone else should know everything that you know.

Consider being friendlier instead of carrying an egotistical you should have known better attitude and maybe that would help the forum usage and community participation grow. Just a thought
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:05 pm

Jippd wrote:Sorry nole but I am very busy in real life and don't have time to read any posts and barely have time for playing as of late. I did not have the time to read this thread but I did have time to come here and post that. I should have realized you can advance past killer neutrals because I knew that already but it was late after a 12 hour shift of work and my brain wasn't working. Just because you have all day to devote to reading threads upon threads does not mean everyone else in the world does buddy :). Consider being more positive and less negative.

So I'm assuming by interpreting your post that your point is that I should have read the whole thread or even the posts above my post. I didn't have time for that with my real life schedule so I'm sorry that me asking the question offended you so much. I'll make sure to never post in the forums again unless I have read all previous posts in a thread because that is obviously a requirement of a forum.

Thank you koontz for politely answering the question.

You need to realize that most of the users on conquer club do not check the forums constantly and spend hours upon hours on here a day. When you are negative to people that post in the forums because you figure they should know better because it is all over the forums you are wrong. A majority of the users I would be willing to bet barely check the forums or even know how to navigate them.

It may be irritating to you to see "repeat" questions on the site because you spend an obscene amount of time on here, but you should not assume that everyone else should know everything that you know.

Consider being friendlier instead of carrying an egotistical you should have known better attitude and maybe that would help the forum usage and community participation grow. Just a thought


Woah woah woah, let's pump the brakes there bud. I was not particularly negative or insulting to you. You just have to understand, the question was literally answered 4 posts above yours, and has probably been answered 20 times in this thread alone. My annoyance in this instance certainly shouldn't be enough to drive you away from posting in the forums. From all other accounts, you're a very valuable poster in the Foundry.

And I spend "hours upon hours" in these threads because it is my job to do so. :D

Let's just agree that you get over my annoyance, and I will ignore your thinly veiled insults, and everything is kosher. Cool?
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby Jippd on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:48 pm

We are kosher
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby mr_chopper on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:38 am

Hello,

I quite enjoy playing this map. My only quibble is that it is somewhat difficult to distinguish between some of the colours of the 'bomb' icons - for which the planes target as a bombardment. It might be my graphics card or my old XP windows PC that doesn't show the difference. But, I have made the mistake of taking out the wrong plane - I think it is the blue and green 'bombs' which I can't distinguish too well from.

One other very minor quibble: why isn't there a Canadian flag on the board? You have the 'stars and stripes' - but the Americans didn't enter the war until, I believe, 1917.

Cheers

Chops.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby Flapcake on Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:38 am

mr_chopper wrote:Hello,

I quite enjoy playing this map. My only quibble is that it is somewhat difficult to distinguish between some of the colours of the 'bomb' icons - for which the planes target as a bombardment. It might be my graphics card or my old XP windows PC that doesn't show the difference. But, I have made the mistake of taking out the wrong plane - I think it is the blue and green 'bombs' which I can't distinguish too well from.

One other very minor quibble: why isn't there a Canadian flag on the board? You have the 'stars and stripes' - but the Americans didn't enter the war until, I believe, 1917.

Cheers

Chops.


Hi mr_chopper, thx for your post, first the colours on the bombs are far from each other on my monitor, also your the only one who have stated it, perhaps its your system not showing the colours correct (as you pointed out your self) and that we cant ofcoruse not do anything about ;)

The US did join ww1 in 1917, the map is also called "Trench warfare 1917" the map is not historical correct, and dont have to be, I have described this serval times befor in this tread, but I dont mind do it again, its a map about trench warefare in the 19 century, ww1, not so much by who, but how, and no the canadian are not present, nor is russia, austria or belgium. Becourse its not about who figths who, but how it was to figth in a trench.

Im happy that you enjoy the map and recoment that you solve your grafix, then you can enjoy games even more :P

Flaps.
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby codierose on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:18 pm

koontz1973 wrote:xml raising the starting troops to 3 in 1v1 games.
Trenchmapv1.xml

=D> =D> =D>
only little quibble for me is manual will it stay at zero deploy
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Re: Trench warfare1917 V24. 21/06 Bugs be solved pg.1/25

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:13 am

Yes, I programmed it that way.
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