4 Star Meats [Quenched]

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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby ironmanbravo on Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:45 pm

Cmon guys lets get this one moved forward. I think this map would work very well for a 4vs4.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby dana1971 on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:58 pm

I'm waiting for a graphics sticker, or the promise of a graphics sticker when I remove the black boarder on the logo around the star.
I can appreciate we all have lives outside CC, so sometimes it just takes a while for feedback to come.
I'm confident it will come sooner or later.

Best Wishes,
Dana
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:40 pm

A few things:

1. The perception of the chalk boards is still not right. Look here:
ImageImage
See How you are looking up at the underside of the TOP part of the frame? Now look at this:
Image In this view you are looking at the INSIDE of the left part of the frame. They all need to be from the same point of view.
2. The title font doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the map.
3. In the color blind test there is a problem between Plate and Flank. They are a little too close together. I suggest swapping the Left Leg and Flank colors.
4. The chalk lines are good, I would suggest making them look like they are "HAND" drawn on. Right now they are too straight.
5. Image The star, and actually all the stars are way too hard to see. I only see 2 stars on the map itself, if there are more I can't find them (this is especially true on the color blind version). Get a good contrasting color, maybe a bright color?
6. The special offer. You have it split in two places. Suggested wording "Special offer can attack and be attacked by items on offer. Special Offer area reverts back to 3." You can then remove the text on the bottom left. Short, and too the point.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby generalhead on Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:49 pm

For the top two chalk board borders wouldn't it look more natural if the boards were the same size. The very top one has thick side boards and smaller top and bottom boards. The big legend border looks really good.
Sorry if this has been addressed, I didn't read through all thirty pages.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby dana1971 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:16 pm

1. You all have very keen eyes, not sure most people would have noticed the tiny inconsistencies in the boarders on the chalkboards.
I can fix those.

isaiah40 wrote:3. In the color blind test there is a problem between Plate and Flank. They are a little too close together. I suggest swapping the Left Leg and Flank colors.

3. I can also swap colors as suggested.

isaiah40 wrote:2. The title font doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the map.

2. The logo however being a different style is intentional and goes back about 20 pages or so. The debate was for a while that the map needed a theme. And the theme / setting is a poster hanging in a butcher shop wall. Keeping that in mind the Logo on the poster was created by a different person than the one who wrote on the chalk board.

isaiah40 wrote:6. The special offer. You have it split in two places. Suggested wording "Special offer can attack and be attacked by items on offer. Special Offer area reverts back to 3." You can then remove the text on the bottom left. Short, and too the point.

6. The same debate relates to the special offer text. To fit into the theme, I had to avoid words like attack. Because it was argued that you can't attack on a cow map. It's more like you are trying to buy, or own the whole cow, hence words like acquire. Also think writing out the regions on offer makes it more clear than only having them written in the special offer sticker.

isaiah40 wrote:4. The chalk lines are good, I would suggest making them look like they are "HAND" drawn on. Right now they are too straight.

4. I'm leaving the chalk lines as is because they need to be straight so the text is easier to read. Imagine whoever made them had the intelligence to use a ruler.

isaiah40 wrote:5. Image The star, and actually all the stars are way too hard to see. I only see 2 stars on the map itself, if there are more I can't find them (this is especially true on the color blind version). Get a good contrasting color, maybe a bright color?

5. I can play around with the color of the stars, keeping in mind the color will look a little different depending what color background they are on. However I don't think the stars are hard to find. I would think if someone could notice small details on the chalkboard boarder they could easily see all the stars.

At the end of the day I want this map to get published, so I'm happy to make most of these changes if it helps me get the elusive graphics sticker. But it can be time consuming to uploaded spot the difference variations on this map over and over again, so is it possible to get a definitive list from the people in charge of approving a graphics sticker before I post another update.

What do you think, koontz1973? You seem to be the one in charge. Can you approve a list of final changes?

Thanks again for the feedback, I know it is all good stuff and makes the map better, even if it's a bit hard to hear sometimes.

Best wishes,
Dana
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby generalhead on Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:37 pm

dana1971 wrote:Thanks again for the feedback, I know it is all good stuff and makes the map better, even if it's a bit hard to hear sometimes.

I know this process can be long and strenuous, but it will be worth it in the end when you and your friends get to play on a map that you made. I am going through the same process right now except I am at the beginning. I believe that that is a part of the process for the community to continually observe and critique the map which is hard, but will make it better. Each community member will see something different, and they will see something new every time they look at the map. Like you said this only makes YOUR map that much better. Don't give up and keep up the great work.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby greenoaks on Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:32 pm

Why is the 'C' missing from Acquire ?

4 Star Meats can aquire and be aquired from any region with a star on it.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:38 pm

dana1971 wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:2. The title font doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the map.

2. The logo however being a different style is intentional and goes back about 20 pages or so. The debate was for a while that the map needed a theme. And the theme / setting is a poster hanging in a butcher shop wall. Keeping that in mind the Logo on the poster was created by a different person than the one who wrote on the chalk board.

While it is true that you have to have a theme, the problem here is you have more of a old west font for the title, while the rest says 50's/60's style. So you have a font from the late 1800's to the early 1900's, and the rest of the map is between 1950 through the mid 1960's. See the problem?

dana1971 wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:6. The special offer. You have it split in two places. Suggested wording "Special offer can attack and be attacked by items on offer. Special Offer area reverts back to 3." You can then remove the text on the bottom left. Short, and too the point.

6. The same debate relates to the special offer text. To fit into the theme, I had to avoid words like attack. Because it was argued that you can't attack on a cow map. It's more like you are trying to buy, or own the whole cow, hence words like acquire. Also think writing out the regions on offer makes it more clear than only having them written in the special offer sticker.

While I agree with what you have said, the majority of the players will know what attack is more than acquire. So I believe that it would be better to swap out those words.

dana1971 wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:5. Image The star, and actually all the stars are way too hard to see. I only see 2 stars on the map itself, if there are more I can't find them (this is especially true on the color blind version). Get a good contrasting color, maybe a bright color?

5. I can play around with the color of the stars, keeping in mind the color will look a little different depending what color background they are on. However I don't think the stars are hard to find. I would think if someone could notice small details on the chalkboard boarder they could easily see all the stars.

Remember that you have been working on this map so you know where the stars are. I could only find 2 of the stars, but when I looked closer, I found one other one. Please bear this in mind because players don't necessarily look closely at a map, and they WILL miss things. It is your job to make sure that the stars can be easily found. I noticed the differences on the chalk boards without really looking, the stars blend into the map too much.

dana1971 wrote:At the end of the day I want this map to get published, so I'm happy to make most of these changes if it helps me get the elusive graphics sticker. But it can be time consuming to uploaded spot the difference variations on this map over and over again, so is it possible to get a definitive list from the people in charge of approving a graphics sticker before I post another update.

What do you think, koontz1973? You seem to be the one in charge. Can you approve a list of final changes?

This would actually be me in charge of graphics. Keep working on this, if myself or anyone else notices anything else we'll let you know.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby anamainiacks on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:29 am

Just my 2 cents worth, and personal opinion; I wouldn't claim to be a professional :P Far from it, in fact.

isaiah40 wrote:While it is true that you have to have a theme, the problem here is you have more of a old west font for the title, while the rest says 50's/60's style. So you have a font from the late 1800's to the early 1900's, and the rest of the map is between 1950 through the mid 1960's. See the problem?

I don't quite get how the rest of the map is 50's to 60's... Looks to me pretty much like any normal modern chalkboard.

isaiah40 wrote:Remember that you have been working on this map so you know where the stars are. I could only find 2 of the stars, but when I looked closer, I found one other one. Please bear this in mind because players don't necessarily look closely at a map, and they WILL miss things. It is your job to make sure that the stars can be easily found. I noticed the differences on the chalk boards without really looking, the stars blend into the map too much.

I personally had no issue with finding the stars, and managed to find all four (not three) of them easily at a glance. And I don't think I've seen the map all that much. I don't know where the problem is arising from, but if the big boss (isaiah40) finds it a problem and wants it corrected, then by all means. Just saying that it might not be that big of a problem, in my view (:
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:17 pm

Since the font is easily readable, I'm going to defer the choice (assuming any future fonts are also readable) to the mapmaker. It seems like this sort of thing likely can be left up to their aesthetic choice.


--Andy
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby greenoaks on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:45 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Since the font is easily readable, I'm going to defer the choice (assuming any future fonts are also readable) to the mapmaker. It seems like this sort of thing likely can be left up to their aesthetic choice.


--Andy

what about the typos ?
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:50 pm

greenoaks wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:Since the font is easily readable, I'm going to defer the choice (assuming any future fonts are also readable) to the mapmaker. It seems like this sort of thing likely can be left up to their aesthetic choice.


--Andy

what about the typos ?

If the typos are a part of the theme (a la someone writing a chalkboard), and they don't impact the readability, I'd be fine with it, but I wouldn't recommend it, since you'll just have people coming into map topic after it has been taken out of beta to say they found a typo, etc.


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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby dana1971 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:35 pm

Ok I think I know how to move forward now.. You can expect an update in the next few days when I get some time. I will certainly fix any typos.

Best wishes,
Dana

PS thanks for the input.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby greenoaks on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:32 pm

i didn't have a problem locating the stars but i'm not colour blind so i don't know if they would have any difficulty.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby The Bison King on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:23 am

I think this looks ready for a stamp
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:27 am

I think a more retro special offer image can be use like this. Obviously the colors can be changed to reflect the rest of the map.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby jonofperu on Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:17 am

I don't see a problem with the stars either. 4 immediately visible. Unless it's a colorblind issue or something...
I'm not convinced there is problem with the font. Old west fonts are often combined with something generic aren't they?

great work Dana!
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby ManBungalow on Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:49 am

isaiah40 wrote:I think a more retro special offer image can be use like this. Obviously the colors can be changed to reflect the rest of the map.

Nice, but I don't think it looks right.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby anamainiacks on Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:57 am

ManBungalow wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:I think a more retro special offer image can be use like this. Obviously the colors can be changed to reflect the rest of the map.

Nice, but I don't think it looks right.

Ditto. It doesn't really fit in...
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:05 am

anamainiacks wrote:
ManBungalow wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:I think a more retro special offer image can be use like this. Obviously the colors can be changed to reflect the rest of the map.

Nice, but I don't think it looks right.

Ditto. It doesn't really fit in...

Have to agree and disagree with isaiah. It is not right (and he did say this) but it is far better than the current one. A special offer sticker should look like a sticker and not part of the poster. And that I think is the main problem with the current one, it looks like it is part of the poster that has been hanging for a while (blood spots, old looking and tatty in places). Do offers last that long? No, so an offer should look noticeable better (current one does not). Give it a slight angle and you might have a winner.

I could go for one like isaiah posted but maybe not that one. :D Either way, the current one does not fit the map.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:13 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
anamainiacks wrote:
ManBungalow wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:I think a more retro special offer image can be use like this. Obviously the colors can be changed to reflect the rest of the map.

Nice, but I don't think it looks right.

Ditto. It doesn't really fit in...

Have to agree and disagree with isaiah. It is not right (and he did say this) but it is far better than the current one. A special offer sticker should look like a sticker and not part of the poster. And that I think is the main problem with the current one, it looks like it is part of the poster that has been hanging for a while (blood spots, old looking and tatty in places). Do offers last that long? No, so an offer should look noticeable better (current one does not). Give it a slight angle and you might have a winner.

I could go for one like isaiah posted but maybe not that one. :D Either way, the current one does not fit the map.

This is just an idea, I have a few other retro "stickers" in psd format, so maybe one could work. I chose this one because the 3 special offers could be larger so they can be read easier while eliminating the text making the map cleaner. Like I said I have others available in PSD format so the colors can be changed to fit with the theme better. I just may post some of what I have to see what dana and others think.
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby jonofperu on Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:14 pm

I don't really have a problem with Dana's last version of the sticker, but maybe something like this would work with the vintage theme?
Click image to enlarge.
image

Not sure if it's old enough though.

Any maybe the wording should be "Daily Special" with "Valid one turn only - resets to 3 neutral" underneath?
Or maybe "Sale - today only".Could also do something like:

Image
Valid one turn only - resets to 3 neutral.

Used this font: http://www.fontspace.com/disturbed-type/nashville
Or even put it on a chalkboard? But it seems there are too many chalkboards... if fact maybe the upper left chalkboard content could be written on the sign like the other comments on the bottom?

I suppose the amounts wouldn't be quite right, but it would look cool if the prices were in cents: 5¢ (it would probably have to be in the range of 50¢?)
Image
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:02 pm

Or something like this, colors go with the theme a little more.
Image
The checked background is actually transparent. So just ignore that. So it would look like this on the map:
Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby generalhead on Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:26 pm

isaiah40 wrote:Or something like this, colors go with the theme a little more.
Image
The checked background is actually transparent. So just ignore that. So it would look like this on the map:

I +1 this one. This one does go with the theme of the map. Did you mean for it to be crooked though or is that just how you posted it?
I wonder if it would look better straight?
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Re: 4 Star Meats [18 November 2012] v22pg 31

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:15 pm

generalhead wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:Or something like this, colors go with the theme a little more.
Image
The checked background is actually transparent. So just ignore that. So it would look like this on the map:

I +1 this one. This one does go with the theme of the map. Did you mean for it to be crooked though or is that just how you posted it?
I wonder if it would look better straight?

Yes I meant for it to be that way. If Dana likes it then he can place it on anyway he wants.
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