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Re: New Zealand [24.11.11] V4 - Gameplay discussion

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:58 am

I almost forgot about this map of yours, Cairnswk, since I've been mostly following Pot Mosbi.

In regards to the Tiki part, is it +1 for every Tiki held? Is the (4) reference to how many neutral troops it starts with? Some may think that you need to hold (4) to get +1, even if the items are on different lines, if this isn't the case.

Keep up the good work, I like this map.


--Andy
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Re: New Zealand [24.11.11] V4 - Gameplay discussion

Postby Gillipig on Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:43 am

For gameplay reasons Northland and Auckland held together needs to have 3 borders! Otherwise in 1v1 games it'll only be about who can hold those bonuses. I suggest making a dotted connection between Whangerei and Coromandel.
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Re: New Zealand [24.11.11] V4 - Gameplay discussion

Postby ender516 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:34 pm

I like the ideas here. When I saw it first, I immediately thought of the Japan map, and that this map would face similar issues in creating a workable gameplay. This looks promising, but I think we all might do well to review comments from the Japan thread to remind us of pitfalls we could encounter here as well. I suspect that the airports will go a long way toward keeping this map from becoming too linear.
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Re: New Zealand [24.11.11] V4 - Gameplay discussion

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:49 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I almost forgot about this map of yours, Cairnswk, since I've been mostly following Pot Mosbi.
In regards to the Tiki part, is it +1 for every Tiki held? Is the (4) reference to how many neutral troops it starts with? Some may think that you need to hold (4) to get +1, even if the items are on different lines, if this isn't the case.
Keep up the good work, I like this map.
--Andy

Thanks Andy, your reading of this is correct, but i will change it so there is no confusion.

Gillipig wrote:For gameplay reasons Northland and Auckland held together needs to have 3 borders! Otherwise in 1v1 games it'll only be about who can hold those bonuses. I suggest making a dotted connection between Whangerei and Coromandel.

Thanks Gillipig. I was hoping that the planes would be enough:
Kaitaia can be assaulted from any black plane position on the map, and Auuckland can be assualted from any white plane position.

So, do others think there is a need for a lilne between Whangerei and Coromandel?
I was hoping to restrict the lines to the ferry route from Wellington and Invercargill.

ender516 wrote:I like the ideas here. When I saw it first, I immediately thought of the Japan map, and that this map would face similar issues in creating a workable gameplay. This looks promising, but I think we all might do well to review comments from the Japan thread to remind us of pitfalls we could encounter here as well. I suspect that the airports will go a long way toward keeping this map from becoming too linear.

Thanks ender516.
Yes well, the Japan map was set anciently, so it didn't hgave the benefit of the planes, and yes i agree with you that the planes will alleviate this issue.

White Plane connections:
Auckland <->
Gisborne <->
Wellington <->
Christchurch <->
Queenstown (QT)

Black Plane connections:
Kaitaia <->
Tauranga <->
Napier <->
New PLymouth <->
Whanganui <->
Blanheim <->
Westport <->
Hokitika <->
Timaru <->
Invercargill <->

I beleieve there is plenty of assault opportunity across the map.
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Re: New Zealand [24.11.11] V4 - Gameplay discussion

Postby cairnswk on Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:50 pm

I'm also wondering why this is still in drafts?
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Re: New Zealand [24.11.11] V4 - Gameplay discussion

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:02 pm

cairnswk wrote:I'm also wondering why this is still in drafts?

Haha, good question!

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Re: New Zealand [24.11.11] V4 - Gameplay discussion

Postby WestWind on Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:17 am

I really like this- the gameplay looks like it will be a lot of fun.

Couple of questions: Are the Tikis part of the territory they are on, or do they need to be assaulted by them? I assume that the Tiki is not a separate territory, but I don't know for sure.

Also, right now I feel like the two bonuses to the north are a little bit too strong. If you add it all together, it's a +6 bonus for holding 6 territories with only 2 defending territories. Granted, it's offset by having to take over 2 Tikis, but since you have 2 bonus regions you can take over one at a time, making it a bit easier. I'm far from a gameplay expert, but I think if you got a decent drop in the north you'd have a very sizeable advantage.
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Re: New Zealand [24.11.11] V4 - Gameplay discussion

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:51 pm

Le's stamp this and move it on... I'm looking forward to this one Cairns!

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Re: New Zealand [24.11.11] V4 - Gameplay discussion

Postby cairnswk on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:46 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Le's stamp this and move it on... I'm looking forward to this one Cairns!
...

Champion IH, thaaaank-youuuu!
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Re: New Zealand [24.11.11] V4 - Gameplay discussion

Postby cairnswk on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:51 am

WestWind wrote:I really like this- the gameplay looks like it will be a lot of fun.

Thanks for commenting WestWind :)

Couple of questions: Are the Tikis part of the territory they are on, or do they need to be assaulted by them? I assume that the Tiki is not a separate territory, but I don't know for sure.

They are part of the regions theay are on, therefore they do NOT need to be assaulted.

Also, right now I feel like the two bonuses to the north are a little bit too strong. If you add it all together, it's a +6 bonus for holding 6 territories with only 2 defending territories. Granted, it's offset by having to take over 2 Tikis, but since you have 2 bonus regions you can take over one at a time, making it a bit easier. I'm far from a gameplay expert, but I think if you got a decent drop in the north you'd have a very sizeable advantage.

OK, thanks for that input, but you don't have to take over 2 tikis.
1. the +3 bonuses could be reduced to +2
2. It looks like there is favour for the Coromandel-Whangerei link. ;)
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Re: New Zealand [5.12.11] V5 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby cairnswk on Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:26 am

Version 5

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Re: New Zealand [5.12.11] V5 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby WestWind on Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:40 am

I feel like the new version addresses the balance issue in the north :)

This looks great!! I'll come back with more comments when I have more of a chance to look.
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Re: New Zealand [5.12.11] V5 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby cairnswk on Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:29 pm

WestWind wrote:I feel like the new version addresses the balance issue in the north :)
This looks great!! I'll come back with more comments when I have more of a chance to look.

Pleased you like the update. :)
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Re: New Zealand [5.12.11] V5 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:44 pm

One little nitpick. Anyway you can move the border between Waimakariri a little up into Hunuri, and move the circle over, and then move the border between A.P. and Waimakariri down so that it is not so cramped?
Image
Also, Mt. Cook and it circle will need to be swapped as the numbers will cover part of Lake Takapo text. You will probably need to remove the lake in Mt. Cook to make it work. That's all I see for now. This is looking really good!!
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Re: New Zealand [23.12.11] V6 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby cairnswk on Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:06 pm

isaiah40 wrote:One little nitpick. Anyway you can move the border between Waimakariri a little up into Hunuri, and move the circle over, and then move the border between A.P. and Waimakariri down so that it is not so cramped?
Image
Also, Mt. Cook and it circle will need to be swapped as the numbers will cover part of Lake Takapo text. You will probably need to remove the lake in Mt. Cook to make it work. That's all I see for now. This is looking really good!!

I'll see what i can do isaiah40 :)
Done iasiah40!
1. I also reduced the opacity on the legend so that the map stands out more
2. the tikis have been re-coloured slightly
3. legend text on airport has been re-worded

Version 6
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Re: New Zealand [23.12.11] V6 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby cairnswk on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:35 pm

new post as above
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Re: New Zealand [23.12.11] V6 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:24 am

This is looking great, Cairnswk. A small graphic item first: the "Wellington" name bubble seems to be covered by an island off Picton, and this seems to be the only case I see where the name bubble isn't on top of a piece land when there is overlap (such as Doubtful Sound, Rodney, Invercargill, etc).

In terms of gameplay, this looks like a map I would enjoy. Lots of small bonuses with possibilities of expansion without increasing your border count too much. With the added Tiki idea, the small bonus amount also jumps...and can in some cases with expansion, make what was once a small bonus into a formidable deploy.

For instance, Nelson (+3) with limited expansion into neighboring regions (Westport, MV, Picton) you can gather a +6 for the same border count. Of course the starting neutrals of Tikis will make this sort of play a little ways into the game, but it looks pretty formidable still. Bay of Plenty and Gisborne also have some expansion possibilities, but more borders to contend with than Nelson. Northland and Auckland isn't too far off either, though you have 2 airports (and of different kinds) to worry about there.


--Andy
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Re: New Zealand [23.12.11] V6 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby cairnswk on Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:34 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:This is looking great, Cairnswk. A small graphic item first: the "Wellington" name bubble seems to be covered by an island off Picton, and this seems to be the only case I see where the name bubble isn't on top of a piece land when there is overlap (such as Doubtful Sound, Rodney, Invercargill, etc).

Andy, i've removed that offending island (which will show in the next version)

In terms of gameplay, this looks like a map I would enjoy. Lots of small bonuses with possibilities of expansion without increasing your border count too much. With the added Tiki idea, the small bonus amount also jumps...and can in some cases with expansion, make what was once a small bonus into a formidable deploy.

For instance, Nelson (+3) with limited expansion into neighboring regions (Westport, MV, Picton) you can gather a +6 for the same border count. Of course the starting neutrals of Tikis will make this sort of play a little ways into the game, but it looks pretty formidable still. Bay of Plenty and Gisborne also have some expansion possibilities, but more borders to contend with than Nelson. Northland and Auckland isn't too far off either, though you have 2 airports (and of different kinds) to worry about there.
--Andy


In terms of gameplay, is there anyone else interested in making some comments...or any further comments before this is moved on?
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Re: New Zealand [23.12.11] V6 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby iancanton on Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:46 am

at first, i wondered why there were two kinds of airport on the map. this seemed to serve no purpose. in fact, it still doesn't.

however, i notice that there are only 6 white airports and lots of black ones. since all of the white airports serve major cities, except for gisborne, this leads to an idea to let there be a practical difference between the airports. my proposal here is to let white airports attack all airports, while black airports can attack only white airports: white airports are airline hubs and u can fly to anywhere from these hubs, whereas black airports are regional airports from which u can fly only to a main hub before changing planes. this lets the cities of new zealand have at least one strategic function or role on this map rather than being indistinguishable from small towns and rural areas: everyone must pass through a city every time they use an airport.

i also recommend merging the gisborne bonus with bay of plenty, since there are many tiny bonus zones already.

ian. :)
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Re: New Zealand [23.12.11] V6 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby cairnswk on Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:53 pm

iancanton wrote:i also recommend merging the gisborne bonus with bay of plenty, since there are many tiny bonus zones already.

ian. :)

ian, many NZer's would be mortified: Gisborne is not part of the Bay of Plenty, so i won't be changing it.


at first, i wondered why there were two kinds of airport on the map. this seemed to serve no purpose. in fact, it still doesn't.

however, i notice that there are only 6 white airports and lots of black ones. since all of the white airports serve major cities, except for gisborne, this leads to an idea to let there be a practical difference between the airports. my proposal here is to let white airports attack all airports, while black airports can attack only white airports: white airports are airline hubs and u can fly to anywhere from these hubs, whereas black airports are regional airports from which u can fly only to a main hub before changing planes. this lets the cities of new zealand have at least one strategic function or role on this map rather than being indistinguishable from small towns and rural areas: everyone must pass through a city every time they use an airport.


ian, while i agree this is perhaps a good gameplay idea i am thinking it would complicate the gameplay for many and that is not where i want this map to be.

So let's so what others think!...if there is any feedback on this proposal.
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Re: New Zealand [28.12.11] V6 P4 - Airports strategy?

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:32 pm

Personally, I think the airports are good as they are, but I'll see about getting a couple of other CA's to take a look as well.
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Re: New Zealand [23.12.11] V6 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby Oneyed on Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:50 pm

iancanton wrote:however, i notice that there are only 6 white airports and lots of black ones. since all of the white airports serve major cities, except for gisborne, this leads to an idea to let there be a practical difference between the airports. my proposal here is to let white airports attack all airports, while black airports can attack only white airports: white airports are airline hubs and u can fly to anywhere from these hubs, whereas black airports are regional airports from which u can fly only to a main hub before changing planes. this lets the cities of new zealand have at least one strategic function or role on this map rather than being indistinguishable from small towns and rural areas: everyone must pass through a city every time they use an airport.

ian. :)


this idea sounds good, but I also agree with cairnswk that it would complicated things.
maybe you should go with airports as they are now, but with the same numbers - 6 whites, 6 blacks (optional).
or add airports only to Tikis.
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Re: New Zealand [28.12.11] V6 P4 - Airports strategy?

Postby natty dread on Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:25 pm

I kinda like Ian's idea here. It doesn't really sound that complicated to me.
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Re: New Zealand [23.12.11] V6 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:08 am

iancanton wrote:at first, i wondered why there were two kinds of airport on the map. this seemed to serve no purpose. in fact, it still doesn't.

however, i notice that there are only 6 white airports and lots of black ones. since all of the white airports serve major cities, except for gisborne, this leads to an idea to let there be a practical difference between the airports. my proposal here is to let white airports attack all airports, while black airports can attack only white airports: white airports are airline hubs and u can fly to anywhere from these hubs, whereas black airports are regional airports from which u can fly only to a main hub before changing planes. this lets the cities of new zealand have at least one strategic function or role on this map rather than being indistinguishable from small towns and rural areas: everyone must pass through a city every time they use an airport.

Not a bad idea. Moving one of the Otago white airports to another larger city in the south might be a good idea if you go forward with this.


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Re: New Zealand [23.12.11] V6 P3 - Gameplay discussion

Postby iancanton on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:18 pm

right now, the map is very open indeed and most of the bonuses are right next to each other because of the black airports, resulting in a gameplay diagram that is "short and fat" for both teams (assuming a team match). my thinking is that, if only the white airports can attack black ones, then the white airports will have some strategic value for anyone who controls them all for either attack or defence, since it forces opponents to attack by land. when this happens, everywhere is within easy reach for the team in control of the white airports, while new zealand becomes "long and thin", with bottlenecks, for the team that doesn't control the white airports.

cairnswk wrote:i am thinking it would complicate the gameplay for many

in the legend, it's actually very easy to explain with pictures, though more difficult with words.

airport attack routes --->

black plane ---> white plane
white plane ---> white plane or black plane

ian. :)
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Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4) General Achievement (5) Clan Achievement (7) General Contribution (13)

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