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Re: New Zealand [5.2.12] V10-P7 - Gameplay Stamp perhaps?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:59 pm

For now, Version 10 with starting neutrals, and impassables notated - on front page also.

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Re: New Zealand [15.1.12] V8 P5 - Gameplay Done?

Postby iancanton on Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:43 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:I wonder if perhaps Wellington and Taranaki would do better as +1s? Even with ian's hike in neutral size, both bonuses would still be desirable.

+1 is certainly possible, since it becomes +2 with the tiki. we'll have to change them back if it's clear during beta that no-one's interested in these bonuses.

ian. :)
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Re: New Zealand [15.1.12] V8 P5 - Gameplay Done?

Postby cairnswk on Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:48 am

iancanton wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:I wonder if perhaps Wellington and Taranaki would do better as +1s? Even with ian's hike in neutral size, both bonuses would still be desirable.

+1 is certainly possible, since it becomes +2 with the tiki. we'll have to change them back if it's clear during beta that no-one's interested in these bonuses.

ian. :)


ian, i have to ask that if we change the +2s on wellington and taranaki to +1, why not do that for the other territories with +2 bonuses - namely Auckland and Northland and Gisborne?
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Re: New Zealand [15.1.12] V8 P5 - Gameplay Done?

Postby Victor Sullivan on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:13 pm

cairnswk wrote:
iancanton wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:I wonder if perhaps Wellington and Taranaki would do better as +1s? Even with ian's hike in neutral size, both bonuses would still be desirable.

+1 is certainly possible, since it becomes +2 with the tiki. we'll have to change them back if it's clear during beta that no-one's interested in these bonuses.

ian. :)


ian, i have to ask that if we change the +2s on wellington and taranaki to +1, why not do that for the other territories with +2 bonuses - namely Auckland and Northland and Gisborne?

Ah, I missed Gisborne. I would say yes to that. For Auckland and Northland, it can go either way. I think it may be best to reduce Auckland to +1, but leave Northland at +2. I think that strikes a nice balance between the pros and cons of raising and lowering their bonuses, though like I said, it can go either way.

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Re: New Zealand [15.1.12] V8 P5 - Gameplay Done?

Postby iancanton on Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:02 pm

for some reason, i thought that u meant gisborne when u said wellington. while i still believe taranaki is worth only a +1 (all zone bonuses mentioned in this post exclude the tiki bonus), this does not apply for any bonus zone, such as gisborne, that includes a white plane because it must cope with one-way assaults. none of us had taken this important factor into sufficient account previously in discussing bonuses. my recommendations are as below.

northland: drop from +2 to +1 because of the end-of-map location, but remove the ferry route, which is rendered unnecessary by kataia airport.
auckland: raise from +2 to +3 because of the one-way assaults.
waikato: drop from +6 to +4 because of lack of airport, but remove the ferry route to discount northland as an enemy zone.
bay of plenty: no change at +3.
gisborne: no change at +2.
taranaki: drop from +2 to +1 because it's in the nearest thing on this map to a corner location.
manawatu: no change at +6.
hawke's bay: drop from +4 to +3 because of having only 4 regions.
wellington: raise from +2 to +3 because of the one-way assaults, which more than compensates for having only 3 regions.

nelson: drop from +3 to +2 because of the near-corner location.
marlborough: drop from +3 to +2 because of having only 3 regions.
west coast: perhaps raise from +3 to +4 unless u block off either nelson lakes or karamia (a marginal case).
canterbury: raise from +6 to +8 because of the one-way assaults, two airports and large number of regions.
otago: no change at +5, since the removal of dunedin airport is cancelled out by one-way assaults to queenstown.
southland: drop from +4 to +3 because of the end-of-map location.

ian. :)
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Re: New Zealand [5.2.12] V10-P7 - Gameplay Stamp perhaps?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:19 pm

ian, excellent analysis. i'll make the changes to the map today and post new version.
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Re: New Zealand [15.1.12] V8 P5 - Gameplay Done?

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:35 pm

iancanton wrote:auckland: raise from +2 to +3 because of the one-way assaults.
wellington: raise from +2 to +3 because of the one-way assaults, which more than compensates for having only 3 regions.
southland: drop from +4 to +3 because of the end-of-map location.


These are the only gameplay changes from Ian's excellent list that I'd think more about. In regards to Southland, even if it is in a corner, it seems hard for me to say it is equally valuable as Auckland and Wellington, it seems worth more. In regards to Auckland and Wellington, +3 seems to be pushing it.


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Re: New Zealand [15.1.12] V8 P5 - Gameplay Done?

Postby cairnswk on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:09 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
iancanton wrote:auckland: raise from +2 to +3 because of the one-way assaults.
wellington: raise from +2 to +3 because of the one-way assaults, which more than compensates for having only 3 regions.
southland: drop from +4 to +3 because of the end-of-map location.


These are the only gameplay changes from Ian's excellent list that I'd think more about. In regards to Southland, even if it is in a corner, it seems hard for me to say it is equally valuable as Auckland and Wellington, it seems worth more. In regards to Auckland and Wellington, +3 seems to be pushing it.


--Andy


Andy, i kinda agree about Southland, i think it's worth +4 - it has 8 territories, 3 of which are natural borders, and 1 of those is a black plane being able to be assaulted from 4 other terrs, effectively giving it 7 bordering terrs that can attack it.
I agree with ian about Wellington and Auckland, both are white planes, with them being able to be assaulted from 5 other terrs.
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Re: New Zealand [5.2.12] V10-P7 - Gameplay Stamp perhaps?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:31 pm

Before i go further, and i appologise to any who has already suggested it, does anyone want to split Canterbury...re-exmaing the regions now it is simply too large.

What about a split Ashburton-Mt Hutt and Selwyn?
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Re: New Zealand [5.2.12] V10-P7 - Gameplay Stamp perhaps?

Postby iancanton on Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:10 pm

cairnswk wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:In regards to Southland, even if it is in a corner, it seems hard for me to say it is equally valuable as Auckland and Wellington, it seems worth more.

Andy, i kinda agree about Southland, i think it's worth +4 - it has 8 territories, 3 of which are natural borders, and 1 of those is a black plane being able to be assaulted from 4 other terrs, effectively giving it 7 bordering terrs that can attack it.

my main point of reference is classic north america, which has one more region, but is attacked by only 3 bonus zones instead of 5. i agree that all 3 borders being connected is not enough advantage to reduce the bonus by 1, so +4 (excluding the tiki) is appropriate.

cairnswk wrote:Before i go further, and i appologise to any who has already suggested it, does anyone want to split Canterbury...re-exmaing the regions now it is simply too large.

What about a split Ashburton-Mt Hutt and Selwyn?

if u want to split canterbury into north and south, then that's the logical place to do it.

by the way, i really dislike the mouths of the rivers being closed off instead of running into the ocean.

ian. :)
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Re: New Zealand [5.2.12] V10-P7 - Gameplay Stamp perhaps?

Postby cairnswk on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:12 pm

iancanton wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:In regards to Southland, even if it is in a corner, it seems hard for me to say it is equally valuable as Auckland and Wellington, it seems worth more.
Andy, i kinda agree about Southland, i think it's worth +4 - it has 8 territories, 3 of which are natural borders, and 1 of those is a black plane being able to be assaulted from 4 other terrs, effectively giving it 7 bordering terrs that can attack it.

my main point of reference is classic north america, which has one more region, but is attacked by only 3 bonus zones instead of 5. i agree that all 3 borders being connected is not enough advantage to reduce the bonus by 1, so +4 (excluding the tiki) is appropriate.


OK. that's agreed. +4 for Southland.

cairnswk wrote:Before i go further, and i appologise to any who has already suggested it, does anyone want to split Canterbury...re-exmaing the regions now it is simply too large.
What about a split Ashburton-Mt Hutt and Selwyn?

if u want to split canterbury into north and south, then that's the logical place to do it.

OK, i'll do that and see what the bonuses are.

by the way, i really dislike the mouths of the rivers being closed off instead of running into the ocean.
ian. :)

yes, that will be fixed in graphics one i discover how to do it in Illustrator easily with the gradient tool

btw ian, i am asking you to re-examine the sea link Whanganui to Coromandel...
previously Gillipig proposed this link

For gameplay reasons Northland and Auckland held together needs to have 3 borders! Otherwise in 1v1 games it'll only be about who can hold those bonuses. I suggest making a dotted connection between Whangerei and Coromandel.


so my question is...should this link still be removed on the above...?
Last edited by cairnswk on Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Zealand [15.1.12] V8 P5 - Gameplay Done?

Postby cairnswk on Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:04 pm

iancanton wrote:...
northland: drop from +2 to +1 because of the end-of-map location, but remove the ferry route, which is rendered unnecessary by kataia airport.

Done
auckland: raise from +2 to +3 because of the one-way assaults.

Done
waikato: drop from +6 to +4 because of lack of airport, but remove the ferry route to discount northland as an enemy zone.

Done
bay of plenty: no change at +3.

Done
gisborne: no change at +2.

Done
taranaki: drop from +2 to +1 because it's in the nearest thing on this map to a corner location.

I re-thought this one ian...i think it could be a +2 due to the fact it's got a +4 and +6 either side of it, and is assaultable from 4 other airports?
manawatu: no change at +6.

Done
hawke's bay: drop from +4 to +3 because of having only 4 regions.

Done
wellington: raise from +2 to +3 because of the one-way assaults, which more than compensates for having only 3 regions.

Done

nelson: drop from +3 to +2 because of the near-corner location.

Done
marlborough: drop from +3 to +2 because of having only 3 regions.

Done
west coast: perhaps raise from +3 to +4 unless u block off either nelson lakes or karamia (a marginal case).

Left at +4
canterbury: raise from +6 to +8 because of the one-way assaults, two airports and large number of regions.

N and S Canterbury have been given +4 each, half of what was suggested, but also because i thought that was entriely reasonable for each region
otago: no change at +5, since the removal of dunedin airport is cancelled out by one-way assaults to queenstown.

Done
southland: drop from +4 to +3 because of the end-of-map location.
ian. :)

As per discussion above with Andy, Southland raised to +4

Adjusted V 10 plus my bonus calculator for interest
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Re: New Zealand [17.2.12] V10-P7 - Bonus discussion

Postby cairnswk on Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:01 pm

The rivers are now fixed in V10 above.
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Re: New Zealand [17.2.12] V10-P7 - Bonus discussion

Postby iancanton on Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:23 pm

cairnswk wrote:The rivers are now fixed in V10 above.

that's much better!

cairnswk wrote:
iancanton wrote:
taranaki: drop from +2 to +1 because it's in the nearest thing on this map to a corner location.

I re-thought this one ian...i think it could be a +2 due to the fact it's got a +4 and +6 either side of it, and is assaultable from 4 other airports?

although i still think +1 is more suitable (compared with gisborne, for example), i can see ur reasoning if u want a +2 for taranaki.

cairnswk wrote:
iancanton wrote:canterbury: raise from +6 to +8 because of the one-way assaults, two airports and large number of regions.

N and S Canterbury have been given +4 each, half of what was suggested, but also because i thought that was entriely reasonable for each region

not sure why u've reduced north canterbury so much. i'm fully in agreement with ur spreadsheet: 5 borders plus one-way attacks against the white airport means +5 (excluding the tiki).

other than this, i'm completely happy with what u have.

ian. :)
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Re: New Zealand [17.2.12] V10-P7 - Bonus discussion

Postby cairnswk on Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:37 pm

iancanton wrote:...
not sure why u've reduced north canterbury so much. i'm fully in agreement with ur spreadsheet: 5 borders plus one-way attacks against the white airport means +5 (excluding the tiki).

other than this, i'm completely happy with what u have.

ian. :)

Ian, sorry, do you mean S canterbury? S canterbury is +5 on the spreadsheet...N canterbury is +7, so i'm a little confused as to which region you're talking about. Could you clarify please.

Also i looked at N Canterbury and it already has 1 tiki bonus and only needs 4 other forts to covers its borders.
It has 6 terrs while S Canterbury has 7 terrs. I thought it would be easier to holder this than the S Canterbury.
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