Version 11.6 FRANCE 2.1

Maps that may be nearing the end of production. Finalize maps here, while testing.

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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:15 am

I like the look of the map. I like the depth of geographical detail, and the fact that visually it's very clear and easy to understand. I think graphically this is a big hit.

What I really don't like is the fact that Paris has been rendered almost irrelevant. I really can't see anyone investing the time and effort to go for an objective victory. I understand that there is a proposal afoot to tweak this problem by reducing the number of neutrals and adding a bonus for the foreign claims. Personally, I think that's not the right solution either.

I would completely throw out the objective victory. I would make the foreign claims accessible through their nearby territories, just as they are in reality. In order to make them interesting, I would give them autodeploys, but no relevance to the central objective.

Paris should be the central objective. More than any other major nation on earth, France is centred on its capitol. Every war and revolution has been extremely focused on the centrality of taking and holding Paris. Still, I think an objective victory there would oversimplify things. Rather, I would treat Paris like the forts on the South Africa 1885 maps -- a multiplier that magnifies other bonuses. That would ensure that it would be heavily contested, while preventing anyone from sneaking a surprise victory there.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:09 am

I'm really enjoying the map, but I have to echo concerns about the winning condition; it's never used. I've played 1v1, multiplayer games, team games and polymorphic games.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Mishalex on Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:58 am

We're working on it... thanks guys for the notice
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2012-11-23 12:26:53 - neutral player eliminated Mishalex from the game

Game 13160196 One of my best victory
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Donelladan on Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:43 am

I'm really enjoying the map, but I have to echo concerns about the winning condition; it's never used. I've played 1v1, multiplayer games, team games and polymorphic games.


First, it is used some times. I have won a game by taking the victory condition ( 6 player double games with fog) already.
And I think it is quite normal that the victory condition is almost never used.
Who is winning a King's Court II game by taking the objective for example?
And except if trench or freestyle do you ever consider taking the objective in the city mogul map?
Same also works for Das Schloss game, you win by taking the objective only when the game is already over, or if freestyle.

Did you know that feudal epic and feudal war also have winning conditions? I have played feudal war or epic a total of 583 times personnally and I think I won only once by owning the victory conditions.

So, really, I do not understand your concern about the winning condition in respect to what we have for the other maps.
And, to the mapmakers, don't make it too easy to take !
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby iAmCaffeine on Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:26 am

Donelladan wrote:
I'm really enjoying the map, but I have to echo concerns about the winning condition; it's never used. I've played 1v1, multiplayer games, team games and polymorphic games.


First, it is used some times. I have won a game by taking the victory condition ( 6 player double games with fog) already.
And I think it is quite normal that the victory condition is almost never used.
Who is winning a King's Court II game by taking the objective for example?
And except if trench or freestyle do you ever consider taking the objective in the city mogul map?
Same also works for Das Schloss game, you win by taking the objective only when the game is already over, or if freestyle.

Did you know that feudal epic and feudal war also have winning conditions? I have played feudal war or epic a total of 583 times personnally and I think I won only once by owning the victory conditions.

So, really, I do not understand your concern about the winning condition in respect to what we have for the other maps.
And, to the mapmakers, don't make it too easy to take !


Obviously it is used some times, but I have never seen it even attempted at in any of my games, which is all I was saying. I'm not even saying that's reason to remove the winning condition or change it.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby rrob74 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:30 pm

Thoroughly enjoy France 2.1 map. There are times though where holding Paris, suburbs, foreign claim and domestic claim for one round doesn't always work. See Game 14152927 as example. Is this a glitch or am I overlooking something? Great work otherwise!

Cheers,

Rob
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Gilligan on Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:10 pm

rrob74 wrote:Thoroughly enjoy France 2.1 map. There are times though where holding Paris, suburbs, foreign claim and domestic claim for one round doesn't always work. See Game 14152927 as example. Is this a glitch or am I overlooking something? Great work otherwise!

Cheers,

Rob


make sure you hold all territories of the same flag, not just one
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby HotShot53 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:55 pm

I really like this map... maybe because I've done well on it so far lol. I like the regional claims, it makes the borders of territories slightly more flexible. I dislike how many neutrals have to be killed to take paris... it basically makes the foreign claims useless unless you're going for a conditions win. If you have enough extra troops to take and hold paris, you're probably going to win normally anyway... so far I've never seen anyone even try to take it.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby rrob74 on Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:59 am

Thanks Gilligan for the reply. Please look at Game 1415924. I've had GREEN hold both flags / both territories in HAU for several rounds. Plus I've held all 5 Foreign Claims. Do I also need to hold all of BAS since it has same Regional Flag in HAU? If so then this should be added to the explanation because it is not intuitive. As it stands, I'm unable to win because I can't hold off. Had I known I would have won this game several rounds ago. Please confirm and thanks in advance!
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Donelladan on Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:07 am

The game number you gave us is wrong rrob74.
But yes you need to hold all flag in BAS, and HAU.
It is written on the legend, regional claims, holding all of the same flag +1.
So you don't hold a regional claim unless you have all the flag of this claim.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby rrob74 on Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:45 pm

See game 14152924. I interpreted as holding all flags = extra troop. But the winning criteria does state "one regional claim" which I thought was just one regional flag.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby rrob74 on Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:18 pm

Thanks for clarifying. This is very helpful!
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby josko.ri on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:05 am

This is very good map, thanks for putting effort in making it be.

One thing I like about the map: A lot of regions have border with a lot of other adjacent regions. Pretty similar than Hive map, but pretty different than other similar geographic maps. In terms of unlimited fort team/polymorphic game, which is my favorite settings and which I have played so far in this map, many connections among regions increase skill level needed to properly play this map, which I very like.

One thing I dislike about the map: Value of bonuses is not properly balanced. For example, LOR bonus which is worth +3 is overestimated. It is not so hard to take (no neutrals there) and it is dead edge so king of works as Australia bonus on Classic map. Maximum value for that bonus should be +2. If you compare that with BZH bonus which is worth only +2, you get huge discrepancy. Both bonuses has 4 regions, and BZH can be broken from 2 sides while LOR can be broken from only one side (I do not count the way through 3,3 neutrals as smart way to go break any bonus). That is just one example, but there are some similar ones, such as FRA (2), it has also 4 regions like LOR and BZH, but it has neutral which need t be taken, and it can be broken from many adjacent regions.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby facet on Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:47 am

[beta map challenge]

I loved this map, thank you. I love the scale of it, Paris seems a long way away from the south coast!

I didn't like so much how the Paris victory hasn't come up yet in any of the games I have played.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby CMetternich on Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:34 pm

I played this map several times now and I really love it, Thank you.

One thing I dislike:

The southern regions are a bit overvalued in my mind, whereas the regions Paris and Central are not so important. As I played this map I found out that nearly everytime the winner got the southwest under his control and then is unstoppable. So one suggestion:

Mid has a bonus of 8 (!), Cen has a bonus of 6, just exchange this bonus.

Historically the Central with the Loire regions and Paris was always of high importance, so there is also a logic behing my suggestion (otherwise for reasons of playability).

And again thank you for your efforts.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:31 am

Hello to everyone,

Thank you for your feedback.

Here is a series of four polls. The first topic will be updated for each new poll.

Polls:
1) The suburbs 3 and 4 must be connected.
You can vote from April 15 to April 20.

2) Create a Connection Between Paris and suburbs 4.
You can vote from 21 April to 25 April.

3) Number of neutral troops on Paris's will be reduced to 7 troops
You can vote from April 26 to April 30.

4) Foreign claims can be attacked This from adjacent territory
You can vote from 1 May to 10 May

Following these polls, I will change the graphics and XML.

Thank you to you to play the game ;)
Last edited by Lancelot du Lac on Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:34 am

The first poll is started.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:05 am

There was a mistake in the question of the first Poll.

It is in the suburbs 3 and 4 must be connected, not 4 and 5.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:18 am

Lancelot du Lac wrote:Hello to everyone,

Thank you for your feedback.

Here is a series of four polls. The first topic will be updated for each new poll.

Polls:
1) The suburbs 3 and 4 must be connected.
You can vote from April 15 to April 20.

2) Create a Connection Between Paris and suburbs 4.
You can vote from 21 April to 25 April.

3) Number of neutral troops on Paris's will be reduced to 7 troops
You can vote from April 26 to April 30.

4) Foreign claims can be attacked This from adjacent territory
You can vote from 1 May to 10 May

Following these polls, I will change the graphics and XML.

Thank you to you to play the game ;)


"No," to all. The map is fine as it is.

It's not suppose to be easy to hold a +6 with the least terries.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Leehar on Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:46 am

I'm ambivalent, haven't really considered the merits between suburb 3&4 being connected (and the question merits why sub 2&4 shouldn't also be connected?)
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:59 am

This connection facilitates access between the north and south of the map.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby The Bison King on Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:09 pm

I say other. Connect Paris and 4.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:16 pm

It will be the next poll, you can change your vote ;)
Lancelot du Lac wrote:Hello to everyone,

Thank you for your feedback.

Here is a series of four polls. The first topic will be updated for each new poll.

Polls:
1) The suburbs 3 and 4 must be connected.
You can vote from April 15 to April 20.

2) Create a Connection Between Paris and suburbs 4.
You can vote from 21 April to 25 April.

3) Number of neutral troops on Paris's will be reduced to 7 troops
You can vote from April 26 to April 30.

4) Foreign claims can be attacked This from adjacent territory
You can vote from 1 May to 10 May

Following these polls, I will change the graphics and XML.

Thank you to you to play the game ;)
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby deejones on Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:39 am

Love the map.
I also will say as someone else has. If you have enough troops to take Paris and what have you to win, then the odds are you have enough to win anyways.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby welshbean on Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:35 am

enjoy the map
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