Copenhagen sightseeing [Quenched]

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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby bryguy on Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:55 pm

- Conditions: In the legend, I'd change it to "Hold any 4 sights for 1 round to win". You only need 4, not 5, so why tell them that they need either 4 or more?

- Some of the bonuses seem a bit... unbalanced. I'm not the best at telling how much of a bonus places should get to fit well with how many territories they have to protect from attack and how many territories can attack them, but this seems unbalanced. That's about all I can tell you there. May want to have someone give a second opinion on this though.

- *Impassable, not impasseble.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:14 pm

bryguy wrote:- Conditions: In the legend, I'd change it to "Hold any 4 sights for 1 round to win". You only need 4, not 5, so why tell them that they need either 4 or more?

- Some of the bonuses seem a bit... unbalanced. I'm not the best at telling how much of a bonus places should get to fit well with how many territories they have to protect from attack and how many territories can attack them, but this seems unbalanced. That's about all I can tell you there. May want to have someone give a second opinion on this though.

- *Impassable, not impasseble.


words of use and misspellings is no problem to change.

The bonuses are based on how many areas are connected to each other (how many you need to defend with more than 1 troop) and/+ how many areas keeps a bonus.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby bryguy on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:16 pm

Flapcake wrote:
bryguy wrote:- Conditions: In the legend, I'd change it to "Hold any 4 sights for 1 round to win". You only need 4, not 5, so why tell them that they need either 4 or more?

- Some of the bonuses seem a bit... unbalanced. I'm not the best at telling how much of a bonus places should get to fit well with how many territories they have to protect from attack and how many territories can attack them, but this seems unbalanced. That's about all I can tell you there. May want to have someone give a second opinion on this though.

- *Impassable, not impasseble.


words of use and misspellings is no problem to change.

The bonuses are based on how many areas are connected to each other (how many you need to defend with more than 1 troop) and/+ how many areas keeps a bonus.



Ah yep that's what I missed, I didn't realize the metros all connected. Does make more sense now.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:33 pm

bryguy wrote:
Flapcake wrote:
bryguy wrote:- Conditions: In the legend, I'd change it to "Hold any 4 sights for 1 round to win". You only need 4, not 5, so why tell them that they need either 4 or more?

- Some of the bonuses seem a bit... unbalanced. I'm not the best at telling how much of a bonus places should get to fit well with how many territories they have to protect from attack and how many territories can attack them, but this seems unbalanced. That's about all I can tell you there. May want to have someone give a second opinion on this though.

- *Impassable, not impasseble.


words of use and misspellings is no problem to change.

The bonuses are based on how many areas are connected to each other (how many you need to defend with more than 1 troop) and/+ how many areas keeps a bonus.



Ah yep that's what I missed, I didn't realize the metros all connected. Does make more sense now.


Np. but if there are some good ideas to add some more gameplay within reasonable limits, it is very welcome
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 18/1 gameplay pg.4

Postby Flapcake on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:11 am

Changes: legend, minor misspellings.

Anything more about gameplay ? or do we have a stamp in sight ? :mrgreen:

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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby crazymilkshake5 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:27 pm

Looks good to me, but then again I'm no mod, haha
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:16 am

Good idea for a map.

4 sights sounds weird. I know how it was derived, but 4 sites makes more sense (to me).

What is the intended gameplay on this map? I like how 2-players start with 11 and there are no small bonuses. But 14 neutrals means that one-third of the map most likely won't be used in 2-player games.

Team games is a similar story, especially on 8-players since it will be so easy for teams to wipe players out (due to small number of starting territories).

That leaves single-player action as the main focus. However, with no small bonuses, single-player will pretty much degrade into a slugfest.

Basically, I am going to give you the same advice I give to every mapmaker: get rid of unnecessary neutrals. I think the objectives should stay neutral, but everything else should drop to 1 neutral, or become starting territories.

EDIT: somehow I missed that the ports etc. give bonuses. That makes the map much more playable in team mode. Single-player will still be a slugfest though. (I define a slugfest as a game which is decided more by dice than anything else).
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:19 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Good idea for a map.

4 sights sounds weird. I know how it was derived, but 4 sites makes more sense (to me).

What is the intended gameplay on this map? I like how 2-players start with 11 and there are no small bonuses. But 14 neutrals means that one-third of the map most likely won't be used in 2-player games.

Team games is a similar story, especially on 8-players since it will be so easy for teams to wipe players out (due to small number of starting territories).

That leaves single-player action as the main focus. However, with no small bonuses, single-player will pretty much degrade into a slugfest.

Basically, I am going to give you the same advice I give to every mapmaker: get rid of unnecessary neutrals. I think the objectives should stay neutral, but everything else should drop to 1 neutral, or become starting territories.

EDIT: somehow I missed that the ports etc. give bonuses. That makes the map much more playable in team mode. Single-player will still be a slugfest though. (I define a slugfest as a game which is decided more by dice than anything else).


Hi DoomYoshi
Im glad to recive your comment and suggestion, thats what the foundry are for :mrgreen:

I would be even more than happy if maby you, or ohters made and description on troop placement and distbrution.
Im not an eagle to gameplay so im all ears 8-)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:42 pm

Excellent map! I didn't even know this existed until I read the article in the newsletter. I'm glad I finally found it. This is exactly the kind of map I've been hoping to see for a long time. Bravo!

=D>

If you want a comment, I think the bonuses might be slightly too large. Their approximate rank looks right, but I would range the bonuses from 3 to 6 instead of 4 to 7.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:50 am

Before I can answer, I need to know what sort of gameplay you are aiming for. Right now, this map is similar to arms race and the two unification maps.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:22 am

Dukasaur wrote:Excellent map! I didn't even know this existed until I read the article in the newsletter. I'm glad I finally found it. This is exactly the kind of map I've been hoping to see for a long time. Bravo!

=D>

If you want a comment, I think the bonuses might be slightly too large. Their approximate rank looks right, but I would range the bonuses from 3 to 6 instead of 4 to 7.

Thx Dukasaur :)
the bonuses could be toned down a bit.


DoomYoshi wrote:Before I can answer, I need to know what sort of gameplay you are aiming for. Right now, this map is similar to arms race and the two unification maps.


DoomYoshi, I dont want the gameplay to change radical, its a turist map with sights to see and conquer, thats also why its hold any 4 "sights" and not "sites"
the "hold any 4" has been worked in at my denmark map after 1000 games in beta, and the map is more exciting to play now, so Il stick with that, the advise Im looking for around gameplay is more where to place the impassebles and how they shal apear (graphic) more gameplay wise, the kind of advise Dukasaur came up with.

Flap ;)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:16 pm

I am not saying the gameplay should change radically. I would suggest to make the outside more open and the inside less open. Right now, turn 1 strategy should be to deploy on sports facilities or our savior cemetery. Since only 2 players can hold the 2 most valuable starting positions, it wouldn't be very fun for single player. However, in team games, a problem like that is not as severe.

The easiest way to add blocking in a European city is to add the historical city walls. After a bit of reading, I learned that in the 15th century it seems Osterbro was walled off. However, some further research is obviously necessary.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:19 am

DoomYoshi wrote:I am not saying the gameplay should change radically. I would suggest to make the outside more open and the inside less open. Right now, turn 1 strategy should be to deploy on sports facilities or our savior cemetery. Since only 2 players can hold the 2 most valuable starting positions, it wouldn't be very fun for single player. However, in team games, a problem like that is not as severe.

The easiest way to add blocking in a European city is to add the historical city walls. After a bit of reading, I learned that in the 15th century it seems Osterbro was walled off. However, some further research is obviously necessary.



Hi DoomYoshi, could I get you to explain furter this "I would suggest to make the outside more open and the inside less open. Right now, turn 1 strategy should be to deploy on sports facilities or our savior cemetery. Since only 2 players can hold the 2 most valuable starting positions"

It sounds interesting but Im not sure what you meen. :?:

About "Osterbro" the name translatet to english says: Easten brigde, all 4 conors are represented around inner city, copenhagen had no inner wall, it was surronded by water (lakes) most still excist, so a ancient wall would be wierd ;) I kind of thought about making head streets for impasables. the cones looks stupid.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:14 am

Flapcake wrote:ancient wall would be wierd ;) I kind of thought about making head streets for impasables. the cones looks stupid.

A wrought-iron fence of the kind that many European buildings use would look good, I think.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:03 am

Dukasaur wrote:
Flapcake wrote:ancient wall would be wierd ;) I kind of thought about making head streets for impasables. the cones looks stupid.

A wrought-iron fence of the kind that many European buildings use would look good, I think.


Yes. maby sidewalks could do.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:54 pm

let's get this stickied shall we?
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:57 am

Sports facilities and our savior cemeteries are completely surrounded by neutrals. They are basically an island for the first few turns (considering that neutrals are a real disincentive to attack). They are not the only island in the map, but they are the only one with an airport, thus making them the priest real estate on the map. Somehow, they should be connected to the main core of the map (there should not be a neutral in the way). Whether this is done by redrawing the connections so that our savior connects to ministry or central police, or by adding another connection, I am not sure.

In Amager, the average number of non-neutral beside a starting territory is 0.5. This part of the map is very closed-off in the early turns.
In North City, the average number of non-neutrals beside a starting territory is 3.2ish. This part of the map is wide open. Right now the barriers that are in place are all beside neutrals, which to me seems backwards as neutrals are a form of wall in and of themselves.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:03 am

DoomYoshi wrote:Sports facilities and our savior cemeteries are completely surrounded by neutrals. They are basically an island for the first few turns (considering that neutrals are a real disincentive to attack). They are not the only island in the map, but they are the only one with an airport, thus making them the priest real estate on the map. Somehow, they should be connected to the main core of the map (there should not be a neutral in the way). Whether this is done by redrawing the connections so that our savior connects to ministry or central police, or by adding another connection, I am not sure.

In Amager, the average number of non-neutral beside a starting territory is 0.5. This part of the map is very closed-off in the early turns.
In North City, the average number of non-neutrals beside a starting territory is 3.2ish. This part of the map is wide open. Right now the barriers that are in place are all beside neutrals, which to me seems backwards as neutrals are a form of wall in and of themselves.



I get your point regarding to Savior and Sports, moving the bridge from Christiania to Foring affairs could be a solution. My point of placment for Metros are that they must not be closer that one territs from a sigth, a combination colud be remove Metro on the Alloment garden along with moving the bridge.

That would open Amager up I think.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:48 am

Amager infrastructure changed so its not a hideout ;)

for impasables, take a look at the purple bonus area, how does roads look instead of the cones ?

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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:41 am

The road looks 100 times better than the cones and fits with the map better.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:54 pm

isaiah40 wrote:The road looks 100 times better than the cones and fits with the map better.



I think so to, roads it is :D
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby crazymilkshake5 on Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:06 pm

Roads>Cones
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:48 pm

Roads are beautiful :) thanks for making the change. I understand what you mean about the metro stations, they seem fairly balanced now.
I guess its just a question of where to put roads.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:36 am

DoomYoshi wrote:Roads are beautiful :) thanks for making the change. I understand what you mean about the metro stations, they seem fairly balanced now.
I guess its just a question of where to put roads.

It's more a question of what to call the roads....:)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:09 am

Roads for impasables: ther location are set to make it less easy to get to a sigth by a metro.

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