Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby chapcrap on Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:13 pm

That is a little bit better. It could probably still be improved.
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby Jippd on Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:59 pm

Couple grammar erros still. Kraj should not be capitalized unless it is the beginning of a sentence, nor should town or towns.
(Is kraj normally capitalized everywhere in the native language?)

It should not be "+2 for each 2 kraje" it should be "+2 for EVERY two kraje" (every not each)

Highway description (should say "connects towns and capitals" not "connect" and lowercase town)

Also you use kraje in some places and Kraj's in other. If indeed kraje is the plural of kraj you should use kraje everywhere.

Can you make the town names more bold? Not a big deal but for example Hradec Kralove I find a bit difficult to read. Perhaps a bold font or bigger font would solve this?

Also maybe the town symbols inside the kraje are too big? I feel like it is slightly confusing and bunched up in some areas with groupings of labels.
ie (Stck and Praha) and some other areas. Maybe you can use a different font/different size/different color to differentiate the three letter Kraj names from town names. Or making the town symbols smaller allowing more room for better spacing might solve this as well.
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby Oneyed on Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:14 pm

Jippd wrote:Couple grammar erros still. Kraj should not be capitalized unless it is the beginning of a sentence, nor should town or towns.


ok.
Jippd wrote:(Is kraj normally capitalized everywhere in the native language?)


no. it is not.
Jippd wrote:It should not be "+2 for each 2 kraje" it should be "+2 for EVERY two kraje" (every not each)


ok.
Jippd wrote:Highway description (should say "connects towns and capitals" not "connect" and lowercase town)


ok.
Jippd wrote:Also you use kraje in some places and Kraj's in other. If indeed kraje is the plural of kraj you should use kraje everywhere.


Kraj´s - I mean it as its bonus... example: Peter has ball, so Peter´s ball. still wrong? :)
Jippd wrote:Can you make the town names more bold? Not a big deal but for example Hradec Kralove I find a bit difficult to read. Perhaps a bold font or bigger font would solve this?


more opacity could also helps. there is few space for bigger font, I am afraid.
Jippd wrote:Also maybe the town symbols inside the kraje are too big? I feel like it is slightly confusing and bunched up in some areas with groupings of labels.
ie (Stck and Praha) and some other areas. Maybe you can use a different font/different size/different color to differentiate the three letter Kraj names from town names.


the three letters for kraj are big. and I think only Praha/StCK looks as problem. or?
Jippd wrote:Or making the town symbols smaller allowing more room for better spacing might solve this as well.


do not forget that town symbols must be 22x22 (in small verison) for numbers.

against big thanks for you help :)

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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby Jippd on Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:35 pm

Agree fix Praha/StCK and rest are good probably with the clutter issue. (Maybe change Praha to white font and place over the capital symbol? Or is the capital symbol where the troops are gonna be?) Or maybe these don't even need to be labeled on the map since you label them on the outside part? But people might be confused if it is not labeled, but if it is too cluttered there can be confusion as well

As far as the possessive S Under the capital bonus description...I'm not 100% sure so maybe someone else knows but the bonus does not belong to town. Town is merely the label for the bonus.

I really think that should read "Not part of town or kraj bonus" or "Not part of Town or Kraj bonus" (if you go with my other suggestion below)

Saying "Not part of town or kraj bonus" refers to the town and kraj bonus which you defined Kraj above it and Town in the bottom right corner box.

Also I was thinking about the Town/Kraj capitalization and maybe you should capitalize and bold these in the instructions so they stand out and are easier to see/notice? And if you do that maybe capitalize/bold Capital too since you are using it as a label for this map

BTW good work it's coming along nice

Also for the capital bonus is it +1 for 3 towns in the same SR/CR or +1 for every 3 towns in the same SR/CR...example I hold SR capital and 6 towns in SR do I get +1 or +2
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby tokle on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:30 pm

Oneyed wrote:
Jippd wrote:It should not be "+2 for each 2 kraje" it should be "+2 for EVERY two kraje" (every not each)


ok.

I don't agree. I think the word "each" is better suited in this situation. Though the difference is slight, I would have used "each" myself.

Jippd wrote:As far as the possessive S Under the capital bonus description...I'm not 100% sure so maybe someone else knows but the bonus does not belong to town. Town is merely the label for the bonus.

I agree with this. The "'s" is out of place.

I don't think you should go with the capitalisation idea. I think it looks wrong.
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby Oneyed on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:38 pm

Jippd wrote:Agree fix Praha/StCK and rest are good probably with the clutter issue. (Maybe change Praha to white font and place over the capital symbol? Or is the capital symbol where the troops are gonna be?) Or maybe these don't even need to be labeled on the map since you label them on the outside part? But people might be confused if it is not labeled, but if it is too cluttered there can be confusion as well


yes, the numbers will be in capital symbol. I think now it is fine, it is not needed to do Praha and Bratislave white - they are mentioned as capitals in legends.
Jippd wrote:As far as the possessive S Under the capital bonus description...I'm not 100% sure so maybe someone else knows but the bonus does not belong to town. Town is merely the label for the bonus.

I really think that should read "Not part of town or kraj bonus" or "Not part of Town or Kraj bonus" (if you go with my other suggestion below)

Saying "Not part of town or kraj bonus" refers to the town and kraj bonus which you defined Kraj above it and Town in the bottom right corner box.


Also I was thinking about the Town/Kraj capitalization and maybe you should capitalize and bold these in the instructions so they stand out and are easier to see/notice? And if you do that maybe capitalize/bold Capital too since you are using it as a label for this map[/quote]

ok. forgot ´s thing. and I did "kraj", "town", "capital" only bold in legend. without capitalization - these are not names, only Praha and Bratislava are names so could be capital.
Jippd wrote:BTW good work it's coming along nice


thanks. also with your help. btw, I added you to map ;)
Jippd wrote:Also for the capital bonus is it +1 for 3 towns in the same SR/CR or +1 for every 3 towns in the same SR/CR...example I hold SR capital and 6 towns in SR do I get +1 or +2


when you have Bratislava and 6 towns in SR you get +2. I changed +1 for 3 towns to +1 for every 3 towns. what about with +1 for any 4. will be better +1 for every any 4?

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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby Oneyed on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:44 pm

tokle wrote:
Oneyed wrote:
Jippd wrote:It should not be "+2 for each 2 kraje" it should be "+2 for EVERY two kraje" (every not each)


ok.

I don't agree. I think the word "each" is better suited in this situation. Though the difference is slight, I would have used "each" myself.


oh, come on guys. do any agreement and do not confuse me :lol:

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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby tokle on Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:10 pm

It's looking better.

However, the sentence "kraj, colored region and 2 towns inside," I would change to read something like "Kraj = coloured region + 2 towns". Or something more like that. In this case kraj is the first word in the sentence so it should be capitalized. And I would want you to spell coloured properly, though I think our American friends would object to that. ;)

You should leave out the commas altogether, I think.

With the two capitals, I don't think you need to say that they are capitals, do you? It could read: "Praha - not part of town or kraj bonus". Where the name Praha (or Bratislava) should be bolded.
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby Oneyed on Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:50 pm

tokle wrote:It's looking better.

However, the sentence "kraj, colored region and 2 towns inside," I would change to read something like "Kraj = coloured region + 2 towns". Or something more like that. In this case kraj is the first word in the sentence so it should be capitalized.


please, think about "sentences" in legends more as about notices in legend. no ones ends with dot. therefore I can not use Kraj/Town, just kraj/town.
tokle wrote:And I would want you to spell coloured properly, though I think our American friends would object to that. ;)


:)
tokle wrote:You should leave out the commas altogether, I think.

With the two capitals, I don't think you need to say that they are capitals, do you? It could read: "Praha - not part of town or kraj bonus". Where the name Praha (or Bratislava) should be bolded.


I think it is needed to say capital. at the first, they are capitals. at the second, in each map is capital mentioned. at the third, no everybody knows that they are capitals so it will be more clear for players why holding specially Praha/Bratislava gives them bonus.

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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby tokle on Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:11 pm

Oneyed wrote:
tokle wrote:You should leave out the commas altogether, I think.

With the two capitals, I don't think you need to say that they are capitals, do you? It could read: "Praha - not part of town or kraj bonus". Where the name Praha (or Bratislava) should be bolded.


I think it is needed to say capital. at the first, they are capitals. at the second, in each map is capital mentioned. at the third, no everybody knows that they are capitals so it will be more clear for players why holding specially Praha/Bratislava gives them bonus.

Oneyed

I disagree. Since you are not using the word capitals anywhere else, there is no need to label the two cities at all. It is obvious from the graphics that they are special, because they stand out. And the bonuses are written by the name in the legend, so there is no need to explain it further.
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:08 pm

I've got a minor concern,

The border of JMK, SMK, SSK ZSK, kind of looks like a four way border, though maybe JMK connects directly with SSK, if so, then please clarify the border so it is clear without a doubt that SMK and ZSK do not connect.
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby Jippd on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:47 pm

tokle wrote:It's looking better.

However, the sentence "kraj, colored region and 2 towns inside," I would change to read something like "Kraj = coloured region + 2 towns". Or something more like that. In this case kraj is the first word in the sentence so it should be capitalized. And I would want you to spell coloured properly, though I think our American friends would object to that. ;)

You should leave out the commas altogether, I think.

With the two capitals, I don't think you need to say that they are capitals, do you? It could read: "Praha - not part of town or kraj bonus". Where the name Praha (or Bratislava) should be bolded.


I agree with capitalizing Kraj when it starts the line in your box.

I would capitalize Towns and Highway in the bottom right box since they start a "description line" too

Also agree that "Kraj = colored region and 3 towns inside" or "Kraj - colored region and 2 towns inside" might be better. Using a "=" or "-" instead of a ",". I personally prefer a "-" but either would work

I would also do a "=" or "-" symbol after the Towns and Highway description in place of the comma in the bottom right corner box as well.

I also agree to do away with the commas all together. Since you are not building proper sentences but merely creating fragments anyways the comma indicating a pause is not necessary

As far as the each every issue. I thought it would be better to say "+1 for every 4 towns" instead of "+1 with every three towns"....does that solve your issue too tokle? But I think the with/for issue might be too nit picky I think it reads okay either way.

As far as the "capital" issue with labeling it as capital I don't know about that. I don't think it is needed to help play the map, but I think it is neat to point out they are the capital of each region. Adds some information otherwise people might wonder why there were funny looking things inside two of the kraje on this map

I can kind of see the issue with the boundary line. Could fix this by rerouting the highway that leads into trencin more down and to the right on the circle. Instead of at the 1 o clock position re route to the three o clock position? Then you should have the patterned border start coming out of that confusing area as a solid line. Since at this time it is at the broken part of the pattern which I feel is also adding to the confusion

Or instead of using a patterned border between the regions you could change it to a different colored border as well? This may also allow you to put a unique colored/border between the SR and CR...but this may be too much.
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp?

Postby Oneyed on Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:53 am

tokle wrote:I disagree. Since you are not using the word capitals anywhere else, there is no need to label the two cities at all. It is obvious from the graphics that they are special, because they stand out. And the bonuses are written by the name in the legend, so there is no need to explain it further.


Highway -connects towns and capitals. here is word capital mentioned. and when you look at any map, each one has market capitals...
Industrial Helix wrote:I've got a minor concern,

The border of JMK, SMK, SSK ZSK, kind of looks like a four way border, though maybe JMK connects directly with SSK, if so, then please clarify the border so it is clear without a doubt that SMK and ZSK do not connect.


done. hope it is clear now. btw, is clear border between StČK, JČK, VČK, JMK? main question is if it is clear that VČK and JČK bordering?

Jippd wrote:I agree with capitalizing Kraj when it starts the line in your box.

I would capitalize Towns and Highway in the bottom right box since they start a "description line" too


done
Jippd wrote:Also agree that "Kraj = colored region and 3 towns inside" or "Kraj - colored region and 2 towns inside" might be better. Using a "=" or "-" instead of a ",". I personally prefer a "-" but either would work

I would also do a "=" or "-" symbol after the Towns and Highway description in place of the comma in the bottom right corner box as well.


done
Jippd wrote:As far as the each every issue. I thought it would be better to say "+1 for every 4 towns" instead of "+1 with every three towns"....does that solve your issue too tokle? But I think the with/for issue might be too nit picky I think it reads okay either way.


I must disagree here because you must hold Praha/Bratislava and only with them you got bonus +1 for towns.
Jippd wrote:I can kind of see the issue with the boundary line. Could fix this by rerouting the highway that leads into trencin more down and to the right on the circle. Instead of at the 1 o clock position re route to the three o clock position? Then you should have the patterned border start coming out of that confusing area as a solid line. Since at this time it is at the broken part of the pattern which I feel is also adding to the confusion

Or instead of using a patterned border between the regions you could change it to a different colored border as well? This may also allow you to put a unique colored/border between the SR and CR...but this may be too much.


I did changes with highway and also with border in this place. no more borders changes. except JČK and VČK if there is problem...

now I must say, I never thought that make map is such pain :lol:

Click image to enlarge.
image


I thank you all. the map looks still better and better with yours help :)

Oneyed

EDIT: a little changed legends in map:
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp!

Postby Jippd on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:00 pm

I would still remove the commas and maybe reorder it to say "Capital Bratislava:" instead of "Bratislava, captial -"...same for the SR box.

Also should it read "+1 with every 3 towns in SR" or "+1 with every 3 towns in the SR"
Would you say. +1 with every three towns in slovak republic. Or +1 with every three towns in the slovak republic
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp!

Postby chapcrap on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:05 pm

The keys are easier to read now. I think if the backgroud were a little bit lighter/sheer/see through it would be better. Also, there are two gray blobs at the edges of the maps in the keys. I think they are supposed to be the capitals, but they aren't placed in the spot as the actual map. I would just remove them.
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp!

Postby Jippd on Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:39 pm

chapcrap wrote: there are two gray blobs at the edges of the maps in the keys. I think they are supposed to be the capitals, but they aren't placed in the spot as the actual map. I would just remove them.



They are the symbol then the symbol is defined to the right of it. It can't be placed in the same spot on the legend I don't think and still have the text fit nicely.

Like how the town symbol is in the bottom right box then explained after he did the same with the capital symbol which is unique for praha/bratislava respectively

The background image just clarifies what regions are SR and which are SR. If he place the capital in the right place on the little SR/CR maps it would be hard to fit the text in nicely too
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - stamp!

Postby Oneyed on Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:59 am

Jippd wrote:I would still remove the commas and maybe reorder it to say "Capital Bratislava:" instead of "Bratislava, captial -"...same for the SR box.


I´m fine with commas, but not with "Capital Bratislava". at the first, the main information is that this grey thing on the map is Bratislava and only then become information that it is capital. at the second, all maps legends have symbol - name of town - what it means (state capital, count capital...).
Jippd wrote:Also should it read "+1 with every 3 towns in SR" or "+1 with every 3 towns in the SR"
Would you say. +1 with every three towns in slovak republic. Or +1 with every three towns in the slovak republic


is the realy so important and needed? if it is not grammatical correct without it ofcourse I will add it to text.
chapcrap wrote:The keys are easier to read now. I think if the backgroud were a little bit lighter/sheer/see through it would be better.


the background maps in the boxes are important, so they must be enough visible.
Jippd wrote:
chapcrap wrote: there are two gray blobs at the edges of the maps in the keys. I think they are supposed to be the capitals, but they aren't placed in the spot as the actual map. I would just remove them.


They are the symbol then the symbol is defined to the right of it. It can't be placed in the same spot on the legend I don't think and still have the text fit nicely.

Like how the town symbol is in the bottom right box then explained after he did the same with the capital symbol which is unique for praha/bratislava respectively

The background image just clarifies what regions are SR and which are SR. If he place the capital in the right place on the little SR/CR maps it would be hard to fit the text in nicely too


what Jippd said. I could not say it better :)

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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - small mal with numbers

Postby Oneyed on Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:02 am

small map with numbers. Praha, Bratislava, Brno stat as neutral.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Oneyed

EDIT:
8 players 4 regions each (Praha, Bratislava, Brno neutral),
6 players 5 regions each (Praha, Bratislava, Brno, Benešov, Trenčín neutral - optional - one of 4 regions which could attack Praha and one of 4 regions which could attack Bratislava must be neutral),
4 players 8 regions each (Praha, Bratislava, Brno neutral)
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - small map with numbers

Postby natty dread on Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:41 am

Why is the image so red?
Image
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - small map with numbers

Postby Oneyed on Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:53 am

natty dread wrote:Why is the image so red?


I do not know. I did nothing with it...

ok. here is a little edited version - names of states written. big and small maps. and I hope they will be not red...

Click image to enlarge.
image


Click image to enlarge.
image


Oneyed

EDIT: the small one is made from big one, but the big one is again red...

EDIT2: the problem must be somewhere in imageshack page. in my comp everything looks normal...
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - small map with numbers

Postby natty dread on Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:41 pm

I doubt it's imageshack-related... maybe you have some display filter left on or something in gimp...

Anyway, try using the hue/saturation tool on the background layer, I'm guessing it's the background which is giving the image a red tint...
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - small map with numbers

Postby Oneyed on Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:45 pm

natty dread wrote:I doubt it's imageshack-related... maybe you have some display filter left on or something in gimp...


the small one loks fine. and the small was made from the big one which looks red... so I do not think problem is with my GIMP.
natty dread wrote:Anyway, try using the hue/saturation tool on the background layer, I'm guessing it's the background which is giving the image a red tint...


yes, but I have not certainly that the small one and big one will be the same.

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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - small map with numbers

Postby Jippd on Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:43 pm

Looks good but what happens if silver is on one of the capitals...can you still read the troop numbers then (i use color codes normally anyways) but jw
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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - small map with numbers

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:52 pm

In regards to the two legends, what if you made the mini-map behind the text more, hm faded, or less like the background surrounding the gameboard? I'm not sure I am being clear in my suggestion, since I don't quite know how to express it in terms of graphic software lingo.


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Re: Fragmentation of CSFR - small map with numbers

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:56 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:In regards to the two legends, what if you made the mini-map behind the text more, hm faded, or less like the background surrounding the gameboard? I'm not sure I am being clear in my suggestion, since I don't quite know how to express it in terms of graphic software lingo.


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Increase the opacity? Then yes.
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