Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - changes are done

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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Oneyed on Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:37 am

Dukasaur wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:I know my opinion is super minority on this site. But I always vote for not having starting neutrals except in rare cases. Don't adjust the bonus, adjust let me start with a capital. Not envy map should be like Pearl Harbor, but it wouldn't hurt to have a few more.

That would be my preference too, but the blue hats won't hear of it.


the capitals are key for bonus, so if any player will start with capital it is possible (most probably in 1v1 or 3, 4 players games) that that player will has also bonus from start.
chapcrap wrote:
Oneyed wrote:what about to change bonus for capitals and 4 towns to +2 instead +1?
when we look at kraj bonus in the slovak republic here is +2 for each. it is 4 territoreis, 3 to secure. in the czech republic kraj bonus is +4 for every 2 kraje. it is 6 territories, 4 to secure. capital with 4 towns it is 5 territories and 5 to secure.
so I have two ideas:
1, make +2 for every 4 towns (in CR/SR) with capital or
2, make capitals +1 autodeploy.

Oneyed

I would make it an autodeploy. But, I'm not sure that +1 is enough. I think that +2 is better.


+2 looks a little much, I think.
puppydog85 wrote:Just dropping in to say that I like the map a lot- Play on it is nice.

Uneducated opinion is that I like the capital bonus but I have not played it a lot :-)


thank you.

well, with Jippd and Dukasaur we will play some games and try find the best way for bonuses.

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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby iancanton on Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:00 pm

when u did the 8.9.13 xml update, why did u change the neutrals for praha and bratislava from n2 to n3? i think the neutrals changed from n2 to n3 at about Game 1360000. this makes the capitals useless again.

ian. :)
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Oneyed on Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:27 pm

iancanton wrote:when u did the 8.9.13 xml update, why did u change the neutrals for praha and bratislava from n2 to n3? i think the neutrals changed from n2 to n3 at about Game 1360000. this makes the capitals useless again.

ian. :)


I didn´t ian. in the very first post is long time updated current xml with n2 for capital.

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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby iancanton on Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:56 am

all games from Game 13613296 onward have started with praha and bratislava having n3 neutrals, so i think we uploaded the xml file that u attached to the post dated 2013-10-05. is that the wrong one? Game 13613296 started on 2013-11-21.

ian. :)
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Oneyed on Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:56 am

iancanton wrote:all games from Game 13613296 onward have started with praha and bratislava having n3 neutrals, so i think we uploaded the xml file that u attached to the post dated 2013-10-05. is that the wrong one? Game 13613296 started on 2013-11-21.

ian. :)


the very first post was edited on 6. 10. 2013 and here is what is wrote in xml:
show


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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby iancanton on Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:05 am

the xml in the first post has n2 neutrals for the capitals and a bonus called bratislava and 4 towns. Game 13612253, initialised on 2013-11-18, was the last game to use this xml.

the current xml, which is the one on page 43 that is attached to ur post of 2013-10-05, has n3 neutrals for the capitals and a bonus called bratislava and towns. Game 13613296, initialised on 2013-11-21, and all later games use the bratislava and towns xml.

ian. :)
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:42 am

Now, which xml needs to go live?
Give me a link and I will make sure that the file is uploaded asap.

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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Oneyed on Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:56 am

iancanton wrote:the xml in the first post has n2 neutrals for the capitals and a bonus called bratislava and 4 towns. Game 13612253, initialised on 2013-11-18, was the last game to use this xml.

the current xml, which is the one on page 43 that is attached to ur post of 2013-10-05, has n3 neutrals for the capitals and a bonus called bratislava and towns. Game 13613296, initialised on 2013-11-21, and all later games use the bratislava and towns xml.

ian. :)


let´s help me to understand this. so both xml mentioned by you are wrong, yes? one because n3 for capitals, the second because Bratislava and 4 towns?...
thenobodies80 wrote:Now, which xml needs to go live?
Give me a link and I will make sure that the file is uploaded asap.

Nobodies


thanks nobodies, just give me a little time to have clear in this :)

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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Oneyed on Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:07 am

this should be fine xml. capitals are codded as n2 and their bonus is codded as Capital and Towns.
thanks ian for help.
so nobodies here is xml:

Oneyed
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Fragmentation_of_CSFR.xml
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Jippd on Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:25 pm

I think if you want the capitals to come into play more oneyed you should make them into a +1 autodeploy and keep the rest of the bonus structure the same.

In the 3 player game we are in right now it seems holding kraj's will come into play. The more people you add the harder it will be to get bonues. If you have an autodeploy (1 defensive position) it is easier to hold and will be appealing to more players. This might encourage people to take and try to hold the capitals more thus bringing them into play.

Out of the changes you suggested I prefer making the capitals +1 AD and keeping the rest of the bonus structure the same.
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Oneyed on Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:24 pm

this is small map, Jippd and I am not sure if any auto will be fine. even in games with 2 or 3 players. some player could has big advantege if he will holds 4 towns in the same republic from start andhe takes capital he will gains +1 auto and +2 for capital and 4 towns...

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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Jippd on Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:37 pm

Oneyed wrote:what about to change bonus for capitals and 4 towns to +2 instead +1?
when we look at kraj bonus in the slovak republic here is +2 for each. it is 4 territoreis, 3 to secure. in the czech republic kraj bonus is +4 for every 2 kraje. it is 6 territories, 4 to secure. capital with 4 towns it is 5 territories and 5 to secure.
so I have two ideas:
1, make +2 for every 4 towns (in CR/SR) with capital or
2, make capitals +1 autodeploy.d


I'm suggesting option 2 out of your options, not option 2 and 1.

Make capitals +1 ad is better then your option 1 I think.
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby iancanton on Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:36 am

happy new year, oneyed!

here is an analysis of games that used the xml which had n2 starting neutrals on the capitals and 4 towns bonus wording.

of the 23 completed 1v1, auto-placement, sequential, escalating, chained, sunny, non-trench games with unlimited rounds, from Game 13091761 to Game 13596141, both capitals were attacked successfully in 4 games, praha was the sole capital taken in 7 games (of these 7, the first player to take praha lost 5 games - 71%), bratislava was the sole capital taken in 4 games (of these 4, the first player to take bratislava lost 3 games - 75%) and neither capital was occupied in 8 games. no-one received a bonus from the drop and player 1 won 13 out of 23, which is 57%, so the map passes the fairness test.

in 12 games out of 23 (52%), praha is ignored and, in 15 games out of 23 (65%), bratislava is ignored. the praha negative bonus was awarded in 2 games and the bratislava negative bonus in 7 games.

the czech kraj bonus was held in 20 games out of 23, the slovak kraj bonus in 8 games, the czech town bonus in 7 games and the slovak town bonus in 8 games.

Jippd wrote:Make capitals +1 ad is better then your option 1 I think.

if only one capital is occupied, then the first player to take it usually loses. it is therefore no surprise that at least one of the capitals is ignored in most games. adding a +1 auto-deploy will help to reverse the disadvantage of attacking the neutral capitals.

ian. :)
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Oneyed on Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:43 am

all the best in the new year to you too, ian :)

sorry for absence here, holidays, familyand so on...

thank you for great analyse. it seems that finaly autodeploy will be the best solution. will work on changing capitals to +1 auto.

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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:23 pm

Oneyed wrote:all the best in the new year to you too, ian :)

sorry for absence here, holidays, familyand so on...

thank you for great analyse. it seems that finaly autodeploy will be the best solution. will work on changing capitals to +1 auto.

Oneyed

Have you changed it yet?!
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby TheRealJb on Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:39 am

I like this map. I've played it several times now. I agree that a darker boarder around each of the 2 countries will make it easier to see and keep the players from having to reference the legends. I strongly agree that adding a +1 auto deploy on the capitals would be the right change for the map with no other bonuses associated with the captials.
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby John DM on Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:07 pm

I didn't get the 4 towns CR +1 - Stat said I should, but not Overview
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Gilligan on Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:11 pm

John DM wrote:I didn't get the 4 towns CR +1 - Stat said I should, but not Overview


there are many features in this XML that the panels do not understand. you may very well get it on the start of your turn even if the panels say you won't.
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Gamefreakguy on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:12 pm

Hey, I'm really enjoying this map. I like the different attacking properties of each territory within a kraj. 2 things I would suggest though: First, a more distinctive line between the CR and SR. Second, in the upper-right detail pane, shouldn't the first "kraje" say "kraj"? It seems like a typo to me.
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Gilligan on Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:13 pm

Gamefreakguy wrote:Hey, I'm really enjoying this map. I like the different attacking properties of each territory within a kraj. 2 things I would suggest though: First, a more distinctive line between the CR and SR. Second, in the upper-right detail pane, shouldn't the first "kraje" say "kraj"? It seems like a typo to me.


seems like "kraje" is plural for "kraj"
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:16 am

Gilligan wrote:
Gamefreakguy wrote:Hey, I'm really enjoying this map. I like the different attacking properties of each territory within a kraj. 2 things I would suggest though: First, a more distinctive line between the CR and SR. Second, in the upper-right detail pane, shouldn't the first "kraje" say "kraj"? It seems like a typo to me.


seems like "kraje" is plural for "kraj"

That is correct.
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby TheCrown on Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:33 am

2014-03-10 16:47:46 - TheCrown: Yeah, I like this map because the way you get bonuses is different on either half
2014-03-10 16:48:16 - TheCrown: what I don't like is that I can't figure out what the - troops penalty is all about
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Jippd on Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:44 pm

What part confuses you about the - bonus? If you hold Praja you get -1 deploy for every Kraj you hold in the SR. If you hold Bratislava you get -2 for every two kraje (2 kraj's) you hold in the CR.

Are you confused by what a kraj is or by what the capitals are or by what the CR/SR stand for?
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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Oneyed on Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:33 pm

excuse my long absention here.
I had some RL troubles and so on...

this month I will come back with necessary changes on this map.

thank to everybody for interest, for ideas. and that you like this map :)

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Re: Czecho Slovak Fragmentation - bonus change?

Postby Oneyed on Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:23 am

TheCrown wrote: 2014-03-10 16:48:16 - TheCrown: what I don't like is that I can't figure out what the - troops penalty is all about


what exactly you can not figure out? why there is penalty or how penalty works?

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