CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [Quenched]

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.5.12] V4-P2

Postby Nola_Lifer on Thu May 24, 2012 1:23 pm

cairnswk wrote:
lostatlimbo wrote:I'm sorry, but yuck. Just yuck.

What the map, or the diamond with pink icing?
Help to clarify what you are yucking at lal ;)


I think he is speaking about the colors and the way they are spray painted on. My guess. That is what I thought when I first looked. :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.5.12] V4-P2

Postby koontz1973 on Sat May 26, 2012 10:49 pm

Having looked at this again, I will admit that the diamonds seem to be not one of your better ideas. Any chance they will come off?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.5.12] V4-P2

Postby cairnswk on Sat May 26, 2012 11:40 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Having looked at this again, I will admit that the diamonds seem to be not one of your better ideas. Any chance they will come off?

The pink icing ones...yes i will proabably replace them with a band of gold or something, but the others...well i don't know
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.5.12] V4-P2

Postby koontz1973 on Sat May 26, 2012 11:43 pm

I like the ones in the border, though they could use a little bit of love. But yes, it was the pink frosting I was on about. They just remind me of strawberry ice creams.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.5.12] V4-P2

Postby cairnswk on Sat May 26, 2012 11:44 pm

koontz1973 wrote:I like the ones in the border, though they could use a little bit of love. But yes, it was the pink frosting I was on about. They just remind me of strawberry ice creams.

:lol: :lol:
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [24.5.12] V4-P2

Postby koontz1973 on Sun May 27, 2012 12:50 am

I mean it, bloody ice creams. Had some of the best strawberry ice creams ever yesterday when we went to the Lego show with the kids yesterday. Get your band of gold on and I will kick this upstairs.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [31.5.12] V5-P3

Postby cairnswk on Wed May 30, 2012 9:49 am

koontz1973 wrote:I mean it, bloody ice creams. Had some of the best strawberry ice creams ever yesterday when we went to the Lego show with the kids yesterday.

That's nice :)

Get your band of gold on and I will kick this upstairs.

Done...

Version 5
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [31.5.12] V5-P3

Postby koontz1973 on Wed May 30, 2012 9:54 am

Thanks cairnswk. Time to kick this one upstairs. Good luck in the main foundry with this one.

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [31.5.12] V5-P3

Postby cairnswk on Wed May 30, 2012 10:07 am

Thanks koontz :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [31.5.12] V5-P3

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:23 pm

Gameplay numbers:

Inner Suburbs looks good, but you could afford to lower it to 5. Spreadsheet indicates it should be 5.75 (see below)

Outer Suburbs looks perfect.

All Suburbs is at 15, and the spreadsheet indicates it should be at 12.42. There's 20 regions to defend, but it's only 8 regions to defend all 20 of them (the same 8 regions to defend the Outer Suburbs). I don't know if you wanted the total bonus to equal the two sub bonuses, but as is it's a little too high. Lowering each bonus by 1 to make it a total of +13, and adding a connection from Khamovniki to Ochakovo would put the suggested bonus at 13.50. That would solve those issues right there.

The South +6 needs to be reduced to a 5.

And the spreadsheet indicates that the 2 +2 bonuses should be under 2, but not by much. Adding the connection from Khamovniki to Ochakovo would solve the westernmost bonus issue, but you would still have an issue with the 2 region +2.

As far as the drop calculator is concerned, in 2 or 3 player games there's an 11% chance that someone drops the 2 region bonus, so you will have to code one of those start positions to be neutral, preferably Akademichesky (coding would Gagarisnkiy neutral would only leave one border region for the other +2 open). There is also a 3.24% chance that someone drops one of the 3 region +3's in the north and NW. Perhaps making one of those regions a 4 region continent and the other a 2, and coding one of the territories in the 2 region continent to start neutral would solve the problem.

What do you think?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:57 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:Gameplay numbers:

Inner Suburbs looks good, but you could afford to lower it to 5. Spreadsheet indicates it should be 5.75 (see below)

Outer Suburbs looks perfect.

All Suburbs is at 15, and the spreadsheet indicates it should be at 12.42. There's 20 regions to defend, but it's only 8 regions to defend all 20 of them (the same 8 regions to defend the Outer Suburbs). I don't know if you wanted the total bonus to equal the two sub bonuses, but as is it's a little too high. Lowering each bonus by 1 to make it a total of +13, and adding a connection from Khamovniki to Ochakovo would put the suggested bonus at 13.50. That would solve those issues right there.

Done..13..8...and 5

The South +6 needs to be reduced to a 5.

Done

And the spreadsheet indicates that the 2 +2 bonuses should be under 2, but not by much. Adding the connection from Khamovniki to Ochakovo would solve the westernmost bonus issue, but you would still have an issue with the 2 region +2.

Done.

As far as the drop calculator is concerned, in 2 or 3 player games there's an 11% chance that someone drops the 2 region bonus, so you will have to code one of those start positions to be neutral, preferably Akademichesky (coding would Gagarisnkiy neutral would only leave one border region for the other +2 open). There is also a 3.24% chance that someone drops one of the 3 region +3's in the north and NW. Perhaps making one of those regions a 4 region continent and the other a 2, and coding one of the territories in the 2 region continent to start neutral would solve the problem.
What do you think?

I'm not in favour of making a 4 and a 2, so i've applied a neutral on Butyrskiy. Perhaps one should also go on Bogorodskoe?

I've also changed the edging on outer Khamovniki as was requested...how does this look before i go applying it all over as it is hand done in vector

Version 6
1. changes as above
2. moved inner ring to the left to make it more centered

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:28 pm

Adding another neutral would solve the problem with the +3, but that's a lot of starting neutrals and could prohibit movement across the top of the map.

Also, now that you've added the connection from Khamovniki to Ochakovo, I think you can move the starting neutral to Gagarinski.

What do you think about making all the inner ring territories, other than Kitaygorod, the starting neutrals instead? It would really focus the battle on the outer rings, and open up movement in the outer suburbs.

Also, the border between K.I., and Kitaygorod is a little unclear.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:39 am

nolefan5311 wrote:Adding another neutral would solve the problem with the +3, but that's a lot of starting neutrals and could prohibit movement across the top of the map.

i agree, it prohibit movement

Also, now that you've added the connection from Khamovniki to Ochakovo, I think you can move the starting neutral to Gagarinski.

yes, that's a good idea, to leave Khamovniki with an army since he's got to conquer each side of him to get his bonus...he'll that fortification.

What do you think about making all the inner ring territories, other than Kitaygorod, the starting neutrals instead? It would really focus the battle on the outer rings, and open up movement in the outer suburbs.

Yeh...not really in favour of that one.
1. it then leave Kitaygorod at a disadvantage having to conquer neutrals to go anywhere instead of having the option to reduce an opponent's territories if possible.
2. if you have all the armies in the outer inner-ring it makes it very easy for some players to get the inner bonuses quiet quickly as they have no opponents battling to get out.

Also, the border between K.I., and Kitaygorod is a little unclear.
Oh! i didn't think so, it simply means A.I. and P.I. don't border Kitaygorod.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:01 am

cairnswk, hope the exams went well and are eager to get moving. While you are sorting the gameplay out, I hope you are working on the graphics side of things :?:

Just thought I would pop in and see. Here is a short list for you to look at but I am sure you already know these.

This is the area that I thought was great and needed copying all around.
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Why do the bridges look as if you need to be 50 feet tall to get onto them? ;) These could use a complete makeover.
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The army circles look blurred. Sorry to say but can they be changed or removed.
Also, the texts looks weird. On some territs, you can see the glow clearly, on others it is nearly lost. Please change it.
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Gold band, with white on needs fixing.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby nolefan5311 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:40 am

cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Adding another neutral would solve the problem with the +3, but that's a lot of starting neutrals and could prohibit movement across the top of the map.

i agree, it prohibit movement


How do you want to go about changing this?

cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Also, now that you've added the connection from Khamovniki to Ochakovo, I think you can move the starting neutral to Gagarinski.

yes, that's a good idea, to leave Khamovniki with an army since he's got to conquer each side of him to get his bonus...he'll that fortification.


I'm still a little stumped on how to solve this problem. I think taking the neutral away from Khamovniki outer is a good idea, but you would need to place that neutral on Khamovniki inner, right? And I was more suggesting that the neutral be moved from Akademicheskiy to Gagarinksky, but there's still an issue of the being a pretty bad bottleneck down there. Perhaps you can drag Ochakovo all the way along the river so that it borders Yakamanka?

cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:What do you think about making all the inner ring territories, other than Kitaygorod, the starting neutrals instead? It would really focus the battle on the outer rings, and open up movement in the outer suburbs.

Yeh...not really in favour of that one.
1. it then leave Kitaygorod at a disadvantage having to conquer neutrals to go anywhere instead of having the option to reduce an opponent's territories if possible.
2. if you have all the armies in the outer inner-ring it makes it very easy for some players to get the inner bonuses quiet quickly as they have no opponents battling to get out.


This is a very good point.

cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Also, the border between K.I., and Kitaygorod is a little unclear.
Oh! i didn't think so, it simply means A.I. and P.I. don't border Kitaygorod.


Oops. I meant the other K.I. (Krasnoselskoe inner). But that is going to need to be changed on the map, lol...can't have two K.I.'s. If you mean for it to border Kitaygorod, I think you can just open the point of it up a little bit.

Sounds like you got a little drunk for the end of exams! LOL. Congrats on being finished with them though.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:08 am

koontz1973 wrote:
Just thought I would pop in and see. Here is a short list for you to look at but I am sure you already know these.
This is the area that I thought was great and needed copying all around.
Image

Yes, and i had already changed that in the Outer Khamovniki territory and asked for feedback a couple of posts back.


Still waiting for a reply from koontz1973 on this one :!:
Last edited by cairnswk on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:15 am

Sounds like you got a little drunk for the end of exams! LOL. Congrats on being finished with them though.

I had a glass of organic wine, but since i am now a diabetic, my party drinking days are well over, so drunk...no...i didn't think i gave that impression or is that what you do for end of exams? Exams finished...well no...not quite...only for two weeks before i have two week block subject to do and then that exam, then three weeks after that start study period 2. :(
i'll look at your other stuff in the morning :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby nolefan5311 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:56 am

cairnswk wrote:
Sounds like you got a little drunk for the end of exams! LOL. Congrats on being finished with them though.

I had a glass of organic wine, but since i am now a diabetic, my party drinking days are well over, so drunk...no...i didn't think i gave that impression or is that what you do for end of exams? Exams finished...well no...not quite...only for two weeks before i have two week block subject to do and then that exam, then three weeks after that start study period 2. :(
i'll look at your other stuff in the morning :)


Yes, that is what we did when the semester was over LOL. I know you Aussie's can drink with the best of them, so I thought maybe that was something done down under too :D. Didn't mean offense.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:58 am

nolefan5311 wrote:...
Yes, that is what we did when the semester was over LOL. I know you Aussie's can drink with the best of them, so I thought maybe that was something done down under too :D. Didn't mean offense.

Oh none taken :)
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:31 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Adding another neutral would solve the problem with the +3, but that's a lot of starting neutrals and could prohibit movement across the top of the map.

i agree, it prohibit movement


How do you want to go about changing this?

I could split Perevo into two to make another 4.

cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Also, now that you've added the connection from Khamovniki to Ochakovo, I think you can move the starting neutral to Gagarinski.

yes, that's a good idea, to leave Khamovniki with an army since he's got to conquer each side of him to get his bonus...he'll that fortification.


I'm still a little stumped on how to solve this problem. I think taking the neutral away from Khamovniki outer is a good idea, but you would need to place that neutral on Khamovniki inner, right?

yes, but i'm not in favour of that because it places too many neutrals in the inner circle.

...And I was more suggesting that the neutral be moved from Akademicheskiy to Gagarinksky,

that can be done


but there's still an issue of the being a pretty bad bottleneck down there. Perhaps you can drag Ochakovo all the way along the river so that it borders Yakamanka?

Last line...no. there is already cramped space down there and that would only add to doubt questions.
What about an impassable like the gold band...
jewellry uses small clasp-like hands to hold stones onto a base...the impassable could be something like the gold-band...which also means i could place an imassable between Pechatniki and Negatzinskiy Zaton...the two at the top would be there but not used as impassables.
...

cairnswk wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Also, the border between K.I., and Kitaygorod is a little unclear.
Oh! i didn't think so, it simply means A.I. and P.I. don't border Kitaygorod.


Oops. I meant the other K.I. (Krasnoselskoe inner). But that is going to need to be changed on the map, lol...can't have two K.I.'s. If you mean for it to border Kitaygorod, I think you can just open the point of it up a little bit.

Oh OK, i can fix that. didn't even see it. :oops:
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [4.6.12] V6-P3

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:57 pm

Version 7.

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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [16.6.12] V7-P4

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:47 pm

Ok, I reran the bonus spreadsheets and a couple of potential issues

The +2 in the 2 region bonus in the SW corner...adding that impassable between Gagarinsky and Ochakovo put the suggested decimal bonus down to 1.5, so 2 is a too high. So, I think you need to either remove that impassable (which messes with the whole 4 corner thing you have going on), or add an extra connection, maybe from Khamovniki to Gagarinsky. Also, if you look, Gagarinski is only attackable from one region, Akademichskiy, which starts as a neutral. That takes that territory out of play from the very beginning.

Additionally, the +2 for the 4 region bonus is also too high as the spreadsheet indicates this should be 1.75. Adding a bridge between Khoroshevo Mnevniki to FIlevskiy Park (which would allow you to make that +3 a +4, since it's 5 regions).

The only other issue I see is that both Khamovniki and Presnensoe border a ton of regions, and both start neutral. I think perhaps inversing the alternation of the neutrals across the inner/outer rings would be very beneficial (except for Zhamoskvorechye and Z.I.).

What do you think cairns?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [16.6.12] V7-P4

Postby tokle on Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:03 pm

Looks interesting, but I have a request;
The title; could you write it out properly, in Cyrillic?
Since it's already in Russian, and sort of semi-cyrillic letters, it wouldn't take much to it properly.
To those of us who understand it, it just looks horrible like that.
And to those of us who don't understand it, it wouldn't make much of a difference anyway, would it?

I understand the faux-cyrillic you are doing at the bottom, though, but not in the title line.
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [16.6.12] V7-P4

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:20 pm

tokle wrote:Looks interesting, but I have a request;
The title; could you write it out properly, in Cyrillic?
Since it's already in Russian, and sort of semi-cyrillic letters, it wouldn't take much to it properly.
To those of us who understand it, it just looks horrible like that.
And to those of us who don't understand it, it wouldn't make much of a difference anyway, would it?

I understand the faux-cyrillic you are doing at the bottom, though, but not in the title line.


You want this...tokle?
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Re: CLASSIC CITIES: Moscow [16.6.12] V7-P4

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:34 pm

Also, cairns, can you post in the thread or PM me what the continent names should be for the XML? As is, I have no idea, lol.
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