Labyrinth [Quenched]

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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:54 am

nobodies, and to everyone that worked hard to solve this, thanks.

So to get this straight. You removed the underlying neutrals. This will mean in a 1v1 game, 2 of the four starting positions will be handed out, the other two and the 4 centre ones will now go to random drop. So we can end up with 3-1 corners.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:01 pm

koontz1973 wrote:nobodies, and to everyone that worked hard to solve this, thanks.

So to get this straight. You removed the underlying neutrals. This will mean in a 1v1 game, 2 of the four starting positions will be handed out, the other two and the 4 centre ones will now go to random drop. So we can end up with 3-1 corners.


After having played some 1v1 games, I honestly don't think this is that bad of a problem. Movement around the map is facilitated with the Pegasus', and the only bonus advantage for the center of the map is the Sirens. Maybe you can just increase the amount of neutrals on the two middle Dead Warriors?

Edited to add that I think we should remove the 4 positions from the starting positions, and put all 8 slaves entrances in there with a max of 2 to be distributed. That way we can reinstate the underlying neutrals for the starting positions. This will solve the manual deployment problem that we discussed.
Last edited by nolefan5311 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:02 pm

gimme 2-5 mins to finish to type ;)
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:04 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:nobodies, and to everyone that worked hard to solve this, thanks.

So to get this straight. You removed the underlying neutrals. This will mean in a 1v1 game, 2 of the four starting positions will be handed out, the other two and the 4 centre ones will now go to random drop. So we can end up with 3-1 corners.


After having played some 1v1 games, I honestly don't think this is that bad of a problem. Movement around the map is facilitated with the Pegasus', and the only bonus advantage for the center of the map is the Sirens. Maybe you can just increase the amount of neutrals on the two middle Dead Warriors?

After all the discussions we had over the corners being the ones with the advantages. :lol:

Lets give it a week or two and see what it looks like then.

But again guys, a huge thanks from me.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:13 pm

Without unexpected events life is boring! :D


About the current changes, yeah, I thought about what can happen without the underlying neutrals.
Actually I'm worried about a 3-1 corner layout. Yes, we can leave it and say that an unlucky drop is part of the game, but I know what you want to achieve.
What's the problem, if we code UN on the corners everything works perfectly for games with 4 or less players. The problem is that for 5+ players, the SP are ignored, so the game reads if they have underlying neutrals and so turn them neutral. In this way we have just 4 regions to split among 5 or more players. What happens? exactly what happened, the game starts because there's no players limit applied on the map but the count for the split doesn't work, or saying it better it works just the result is less than one.
Anyway, this should not happen, at least anymore :mrgreen:

Since you want to have a fair drop there's a thing you can do. Code 4 starting positions, but instead of having them with a single position add two position for each starting positions.
For example:
  1. A1 and J16
  2. E1 and N16
  3. J1 and A16
  4. N1 and E16

In this way 2-4 players will have a very fair drop (i'm thinking right now about some crazy team game, but nvm) and with 5+ players the positions are ignored but there's enough regions to start the game becuase there's no underlying neutral.
The only issue is that with fog if you know a position you know also the other, but I don't care so much considering how damned well it could work with all other game types.

What do you think? It seems a good solution to me.

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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby jcarter1 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:16 pm

not a bad solution - just new players down the road need to get that information to not have an unfair disadvantage right off the bat.


On another note:
Is there a reason why the NW corner only has 2 food sources while all the others have at least 3?
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby nolefan5311 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:17 pm

Like this tnb?

Code: Select all
<positions max="1">
   <position>
      <territory>A1</territory>
      <territory>J16</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>A16</territory>
      <territory>J1</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>N1</territory>
      <territory>E16</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>N16</territory>
      <territory>E1</territory>
   </position>
</positions>
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:21 pm

yes and no neutrals coded on those territories :)

edit: eventually you can also remove the max=1 but it's up to koontz this. I think he wants it
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby jcarter1 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:25 pm

jcarter1 wrote:On another note:
Is there a reason why the NW corner only has 2 food sources while all the others have at least 3?


And on top of that:

Is anyone actually ever going to go for the food sources if 3 of them combined only give +1 but start with 2 neutral troops each?
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:44 pm

Two things then. Nole and nobodies, change the xml for the double starting positions please. Max of one can come out as it is not needed.

jcarter1 wrote:
jcarter1 wrote:On another note:
Is there a reason why the NW corner only has 2 food sources while all the others have at least 3?


And on top of that:

Is anyone actually ever going to go for the food sources if 3 of them combined only give +1 but start with 2 neutral troops each?

Food is in a pattern like all of the other icons. But slight differences have been put in to make the game slightly unbalanced/uneven depending on where you go from. And yes, food is the first to get captured. Less neutrals to get through in 1v1 games. Larger games may be different but they are more of an added extra and not a bonus to change the game. The swords are more like that in the way you are thinking.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby jcarter1 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:08 pm

i highly doubt food is first to be captured - and it is also not less neutrals to go through until you get the bonus
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby pamoa on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:18 pm

Game 12524814 Round 12
big flaw in the code
I just killed my opponent slave positions without holding Prometheus
De gueules à la tour d'argent ouverte, crénelée de trois pièces, sommée d'un donjon ajouré, crénelé de deux pièces

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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:37 pm

pamoa wrote:Game 12524814 Round 12
big flaw in the code
I just killed my opponent slave positions without holding Prometheus


Yes there is. The ring of fire regions are showing as bordering the Slave Entrances, whereas Prometheus is not showing as bordering the slave entrances.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby jcarter1 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:14 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
pamoa wrote:Game 12524814 Round 12
big flaw in the code
I just killed my opponent slave positions without holding Prometheus


Yes there is. The ring of fire regions are showing as bordering the Slave Entrances, whereas Prometheus is not showing as bordering the slave entrances.



prometheus is not supposed to border slave entrances
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:16 pm

jcarter1 wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:
pamoa wrote:Game 12524814 Round 12
big flaw in the code
I just killed my opponent slave positions without holding Prometheus


Yes there is. The ring of fire regions are showing as bordering the Slave Entrances, whereas Prometheus is not showing as bordering the slave entrances.



prometheus is not supposed to border slave entrances

No. but you should hold him to be able to attack the slave entrances.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby Donelladan on Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:52 am

So, for 1vs1, is it supposed to have 2 starting positions or only one?
I started a 1vs1 yesterday, we started with 2 starting positions.
I just played 1v1 few minutes ago and we had only one starting positions. ( and that sucks, especially because we were playing nuke and I got my only slave entrance nuked..........)


Btw, would it be possible to code, that nuke can NOT be a slave entrance? Because it kind of make it very lucky... think to a 8 player games with nuke :S
Last edited by Donelladan on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby Armandolas on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:00 am

I have a doubt, if i hold a trap do i get -1 troop in that territorie or do i have -1 in my slave entrance autodeploy?

When this prometeus thing is fixed(we just have seen an example where someone didnt hold prometheus and won a game by killing enemy), my currently game will be fixed too?or only when i start a new game?

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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby Donelladan on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:11 am

With a trap you have -1 to deploy.
So for example if you dont have any bonus, instead of receving 3 troops at the beginning of your turn, your receive 2 !
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby Armandolas on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:21 am

donelladan wrote:With a trap you have -1 to deploy.
So for example if you dont have any bonus, instead of receving 3 troops at the beginning of your turn, your receive 2 !


what if i have 2 traps? 1 deploy only?or 3 traps...no deploys...is that it?...what if i have 4?..lololol
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby Donelladan on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:24 am

I didnt try with several traps on that map.
But on other map with negative drop ( king's court II) then you have 0 troop to deploy :)
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:56 am

donelladan wrote:So, for 1vs1, is it supposed to have 2 starting positions or only one?
I started a 1vs1 yesterday, we started with 2 starting positions.
I just played 1v1 few minutes ago and we had only one starting positions. ( and that sucks, especially because we were playing nuke and I got my only slave entrance nuked..........)


Btw, would it be possible to code, that nuke can NOT be a slave entrance? Because it kind of make it very lucky... think to a 8 player games with nuke :S


What game number?
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby Donelladan on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:07 am

Game 12548417
Game 12548529

Both 1vs1, both start with only one position per player.

And 1vs1 the game is really unbalanced I think.
I dunno if it will improve a lot with 2 starting positions. But I think the pegasus with only 1 neutral are a problem here.
It allows you to be very fast on your opponent. And with equal dice on both side it means the 2nd will never be able to hold a bonus, while the 1st will have it almost all the game.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:18 am

There were a lot of rapid-fire changes to the code to try and identify the problem for larger games. I believe the issue is now sorted.

Game 12546113 was started really early this morning and we were both distributed 2 starting positions, so it appears the issue is corrected.

Edited to add that it appears both of those games started after the one I referenced. I don't understand what's going on, lol. I will get with koontz and nobodies to see what the problem is.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby Armandolas on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:25 am

Nole can u clarify this?

When this prometeus thing is fixed(we just have seen an example where someone didnt hold prometheus and won a game by killing enemy), my currently game will be fixed too?or only when i start a new game?

Thanks
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA Ready

Postby Gilligan on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:31 am

Armandolas wrote:Nole can u clarify this?

When this prometeus thing is fixed(we just have seen an example where someone didnt hold prometheus and won a game by killing enemy), my currently game will be fixed too?or only when i start a new game?

Thanks


If the XML is updated mid-game, it will be active.
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