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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Gilligan on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:43 pm

Yes, sorry, you are right :oops: :oops:
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:17 pm

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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:25 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Guys, while I really appreciate all the help you have all given with the xml, can I please ask for all xml changes from now on to come from nole..


This is a very good idea.

For the record, i posted here the xml only so you be able to see what i did. I don't like to touch someone else file because it creates only confusion. This was an exception case and i did the changes only to fix an important issue that has slipped away (that's the proof that we need the tool and so it needs to be updated). It was done only to give back the map to the people ;)

For the current fix, plese nolefan with the file post here what you changed. I saw gilligan solved the prometheus issue moving it, right? (I didn't checked it very well). If i'm right there could be small problem....we need to close the map to upload the new files, wait all active games end.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Gilligan on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:28 pm

apparently the prometheus issue was something else. Nole and I checked it this morning and it works at the bottom, which confuses me because of the timestamps of the uploaded xml and when pamoa attacked the entrance without prometheus. All in all it didn't solve it, just confused as to why the timestamps contradict each other.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:37 pm

See my pm ;)
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:37 pm

Koontz or nole please list the changes
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:48 pm

Updated file is below. Changes:

- All conditional borders have been put back in
- ALL underlying neutrals for the start positions have been removed (A1, A16, E1, E16, J1, J16, N1, N16)
- Prometheus is now the first territory listed.
- Starting positions are as such:
Code: Select all
<positions max="1">
   <position>
      <territory>A1</territory>
      <territory>J16</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>A16</territory>
      <territory>J1</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>N1</territory>
      <territory>E16</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>N16</territory>
      <territory>E1</territory>
   </position>
</positions>


http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/5/13/ ... archV2.xml
Attachments
Labs27MarchV2.xml
(49.94 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:55 pm

Ok, now that we appear to have all the bugs solved, here are some GP issues I've noticed:

- I think Pegasus' should be n2 or n3. It's too easy with decent dice in the first round or two to break into your opponents territory and end the game. I wouldn't be opposed to even making it n4.
- Medusa appears to be completely ignored in most games. Perhaps increase the bonus for holding her to a +4? Maybe even higher, since there is no easy way to get to her, and she is surrounded by killer neutrals.
- While the spears are a nice touch, they are practically useless. They don't bombard any regions of significance and tend to be completely ignored. Perhaps if the Minotaurs were increased, they would be worth grabbing and then some importance would be added to the spears.
- This is kind of a major graphics change as well, but what about perhaps adding sirens along the bottom and top rows, so that bonus is available to people stuck in the corners?

Just throwing some ideas out there. Honestly, I didn't think I would like playing this map that much when it was first released, but I find myself enjoying it, and thus the suggestions :D
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby knowman on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:40 pm

Quick question - is the Prometheus bit fixed for ongoing games or will that be implemented in the future?

Thank you!
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:46 pm

knowman wrote:Quick question - is the Prometheus bit fixed for ongoing games or will that be implemented in the future?

Thank you!

As soon as the new XML is upload it will take effect immediately.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:05 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
knowman wrote:Quick question - is the Prometheus bit fixed for ongoing games or will that be implemented in the future?

Thank you!

As soon as the new XML is upload it will take effect immediately.


It's already in effect for games started now. As far as games started when it wasn't in effect, I don't know how those will be affected.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:33 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:Updated file is below. Changes:

- All conditional borders have been put back in
- ALL underlying neutrals for the start positions have been removed (A1, A16, E1, E16, J1, J16, N1, N16)
- Prometheus is now the first territory listed.
- Starting positions are as such:
Code: Select all
<positions max="1">
   <position>
      <territory>A1</territory>
      <territory>J16</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>A16</territory>
      <territory>J1</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>N1</territory>
      <territory>E16</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>N16</territory>
      <territory>E1</territory>
   </position>
</positions>


http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/5/13/ ... archV2.xml

And the only graphics change is the small map now has the missing food.
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/2004/labarynthsmall.png
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:46 pm

nolefan5311 wrote: I think Pegasus' should be n2 or n3.

Agree on a neutral 2 for now.
nolefan5311 wrote: Medusa appears to be completely ignored in most games.

She is very close to the middle and only really accessible by the corner entrances or a player coming from the corner. Raising the bonus will not get her into play faster IMO. Leave this for now and we can look at it later when ,ore games have finished.
nolefan5311 wrote:While the spears are a nice touch, they are practically useless.

They are not useless. The spears are not their for a way to block or attack, the idea behind them is to give you the ability to see far away. You take one in trench, then they are more than powerful. All game types have been thought of here. :P
nolefan5311 wrote:Perhaps if the Minotaurs were increased, they would be worth grabbing and then some importance would be added to the spears.

Then the corners have a huge advantage over the centres in larger games.
nolefan5311 wrote:This is kind of a major graphics change as well, but what about perhaps adding sirens along the bottom and top rows, so that bonus is available to people stuck in the corners?

That is not only a huge graphics change but also game play as well. The sirens give a +2 with another slave entrance close by and a large neutral to take. The corners have the minotaurs for a +1 but lower neutral. I am opposed to this.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:11 am

I have to lock the map again. This time to update it. If we don't do in this way the current ongoing games will be messed up.
So this is what we are going to do:
- Lock the map
- Wait current games end
- Update the xml
- Unlock the map again.

Locked now.

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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Gilligan on Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:31 am

Are round limits going to be imposed?
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:26 am

Gilligan wrote:Are round limits going to be imposed?

This needs to be done. I have trench games on this in round 3 or 4 with 8 players in them. It could take years for them to end.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:58 am

koontz1973 wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote: I think Pegasus' should be n2 or n3.

Agree on a neutral 2 for now.


I will make the changes to the XML and hopefully it can be uploaded during the locking of the map.

koontz1973 wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote: Medusa appears to be completely ignored in most games.

She is very close to the middle and only really accessible by the corner entrances or a player coming from the corner. Raising the bonus will not get her into play faster IMO. Leave this for now and we can look at it later when ,ore games have finished.


She is equal territories away from nearly every slave entrance. See below for E9 Medusa:
A1 - 12 territories away (13 neutrals)
E1 - 14 territories away (16 neutrals)
A16 - 11 territories away (12 neutrals)
E16 - 10 territories away (12 neutrals)
J1 - 12 territories away (14 neutrals)
J16 - 11 territories away (14 neutrals)

But it can't hurt to wait to study some more games to see how often she's taken.

koontz1973 wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:While the spears are a nice touch, they are practically useless.

They are not useless. The spears are not their for a way to block or attack, the idea behind them is to give you the ability to see far away. You take one in trench, then they are more than powerful. All game types have been thought of here. :P


This is a good explanation. I didn't doubt this map had all game types planned lol. I do doubt their usefulness at this point, but we can study at some point as well.

koontz1973 wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:Perhaps if the Minotaurs were increased, they would be worth grabbing and then some importance would be added to the spears.

Then the corners have a huge advantage over the centres in larger games.


I honestly don't see how the corners have huge advantage over the center positions, in any game type. If anything I think they have a disadvantage. They are obviously significantly further from Prometheus, who is the key territory in this game, they have n2's on their food as opposed to the center positions which have n1, they don't have a siren close by, etc.

koontz1973 wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:This is kind of a major graphics change as well, but what about perhaps adding sirens along the bottom and top rows, so that bonus is available to people stuck in the corners?

That is not only a huge graphics change but also game play as well. The sirens give a +2 with another slave entrance close by and a large neutral to take. The corners have the minotaurs for a +1 but lower neutral. I am opposed to this.


Well, we can see what happens in a majority of games once the new XML is uploaded and the map is unlocked. I pretty firmly believe there needs to be a little more bonus potential for corner positions.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby puppydog85 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:11 am

What is the status of the games waiting for players? are we going to have to wait for them also? And if you don't mind taking the time, please inform a map newbie why you must wait for all games to end (have you not made multiple changes while games were running?)?
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:13 am

Well nole, if the map needs to get locked every bloody time an update is needed to be made, you and I will be a very old men by the time this gets out of beta.

Can I ask a question to the ones in the know. What is it with this xml that has not been done before? Is it just the conditional border?

puppydog85 wrote:What is the status of the games waiting for players? are we going to have to wait for them also? And if you don't mind taking the time, please inform a map newbie why you must wait for all games to end (have you not made multiple changes while games were running?)?


As for the waiting game, not sure, as for changes in beta, this is normally done live, but for some reason, this one causes more problems when done that way.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Gilligan on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:17 am

Yes this is the first map to use conditional borders...
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:21 am

Gilligan wrote:Yes this is the first map to use conditional borders...

What about the other new things like the requirements?
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Gilligan on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:32 am

You mean collection bonuses? Philly and Fragmentation use those.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:42 am

And they are fine.

So the only thing on this map that is not on any other map is the conditional border. Just be a lot easier to remove the CB totally from this map and use it on another map when it is working.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Gilligan on Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:03 am

But with this new update, they are working,right?
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:03 am

So why do we need to lock a map to make an update?
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