Labyrinth [Quenched]

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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:24 pm

EricPhail wrote:Apologies if this has been asked before but:
Why do C8 and L9 (the spears) have different neutral values given they are functionally identical?

Edit: Haven't reached a slave entrance to check yet (though it's my first priority in the game I'm playing) but BOB seems to imply you can assault them anytime, is this just that BOB can't interpret conditional borders correctly or is the prometheus problem still in existance?

The different values are on the spears as one has an advantage over the others in the way you can get to them and also where they are on the board. And BOB cannot interpret conditional borders.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby EricPhail on Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:19 am

Thank you on the answer re:BOB (both encouraging and useful to know in general)

as for the spears, I can't see the difference between gaia and aeolus myself (could someone point it out/reference the appropriate post(s) please)
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby dazza2008 on Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:29 am

I love this map. When I first saw it I thought I wouldn't but after playing a few I think its awesome.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:36 pm

Thank you dazza, always glad to hear that. But do you have anything that might make it even more awesome?
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby dazza2008 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:03 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Thank you dazza, always glad to hear that. But do you have anything that might make it even more awesome?


I'm not great at all this map making stuff so i dunno. It seems to work well as it is to me. I have only played it 1v1. I have some dubs and trips waiting to fill. I might have more idea on anything after them.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby EricPhail on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:09 pm

When is the graphics fix for misplaced/missing food icons on the small map - K5 and N7 (transposed onto n8 for some reason) due
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:38 pm

EricPhail wrote:When is the graphics fix for misplaced/missing food icons on the small map - K5 and N7 (transposed onto n8 for some reason) due

Poking the boss right now. O:)

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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby EricPhail on Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:29 am

New image fixes K5 but not N7
(the food is on the corner of the yellow bombardment area according to BOB and the large map, but one in on the small)

It could of course be that the small map is correct re: n7/8 and the large map (and presumably the xml according to bob) are wrong but there is a discrepancy there
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:30 pm

EricPhail wrote:New image fixes K5 but not N7
(the food is on the corner of the yellow bombardment area according to BOB and the large map, but one in on the small)

It could of course be that the small map is correct re: n7/8 and the large map (and presumably the xml according to bob) are wrong but there is a discrepancy there

Good spot. Here it is with both corrections.

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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby EricPhail on Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:00 pm

New version looks good. (I'm enjoying my game on this map by the way)
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Aleena on Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:04 am

On large map - location (D5) on the map is labeled as (D4) in the command lists.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:26 am

XML Fixes:

-Changed D4 to D5 in all instances in the XML
-Changed C8 spear from n1 to n2

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/5/13/ ... 22June.xml
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:06 am

nole, you also mentioned that you had a couple of game play points to make. Still have them or are you happy now with this?
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby nolefan5311 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:50 pm

koontz1973 wrote:nole, you also mentioned that you had a couple of game play points to make. Still have them or are you happy now with this?


I'm still thinking about them; will probably post them in the next few days or so. I don't think is close to quench, so there's no rush, right?
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:44 am

nolefan5311 wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:nole, you also mentioned that you had a couple of game play points to make. Still have them or are you happy now with this?


I'm still thinking about them; will probably post them in the next few days or so. I don't think is close to quench, so there's no rush, right?

No rush but I still want your thoughts on this. 8-)
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Fulch on Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:35 pm

Function of Sirens?

Has this been brought up yet?

I have a game where I took a Siren but was not able to fort out of it. I realize they cannot attack, but forting is different. The result was leaving troops stuck there. Like Alcatraz in SF.

Is this a bug?

If they are not allowed to fort out, the ledger should be better worded as it currently states--Sirens cannot attack.

Map has a nice concept. Cheers.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Aleena on Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:39 pm

Suggestion to Fulch's issue maybe add a one way move ability from each Siren to the peguses next to it.

So if you reach the Siren - you can only leave here rock through the passing of a Peguses... Just an idea.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Gilligan on Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:52 pm

Fulch wrote:Function of Sirens?

Has this been brought up yet?

I have a game where I took a Siren but was not able to fort out of it. I realize they cannot attack, but forting is different. The result was leaving troops stuck there. Like Alcatraz in SF.

Is this a bug?

If they are not allowed to fort out, the ledger should be better worded as it currently states--Sirens cannot attack.

Map has a nice concept. Cheers.


But it's also a +2.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby betiko on Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:20 pm

Ok, i m on a dubs no spoils.. And i don t know there is something wrong about it. In spite of having a clear troop advantage, the bonuses are to small to take. Opponents keep on stacking their slave entrance waiting for us to take too much confidence and attack too many neutrals...
I don t know i really liked better the 2 cups for food bonus as before personally..

Also.. This is not a map for no spoils!! Impossible to have a significant advatage to go for prometheus before at least 30 rounds..
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:41 am

Fulch wrote:Function of Sirens?

Has this been brought up yet?

I have a game where I took a Siren but was not able to fort out of it. I realize they cannot attack, but forting is different. The result was leaving troops stuck there. Like Alcatraz in SF.

Is this a bug?

If they are not allowed to fort out, the ledger should be better worded as it currently states--Sirens cannot attack.

Map has a nice concept. Cheers.

The sirens cannot reinforce or attack out of, you cannot have one without the other. Any troops you place on them are stuck. But you need to place troops on them to protect your bonus. Remember, it is a pretty good bonus for one region so they are nice to have. I see no reason to change the wording but if you can suggest something that fits the space I have, I can change it.
Aleena wrote:Suggestion to Fulch's issue maybe add a one way move ability from each Siren to the peguses next to it.

So if you reach the Siren - you can only leave here rock through the passing of a Peguses... Just an idea.

This suggestion completely changes the sirens idea. Sirens draw you in and never let you go.
betiko wrote:Ok, i m on a dubs no spoils.. And i don t know there is something wrong about it. In spite of having a clear troop advantage, the bonuses are to small to take. Opponents keep on stacking their slave entrance waiting for us to take too much confidence and attack too many neutrals...
I don t know i really liked better the 2 cups for food bonus as before personally..

Also.. This is not a map for no spoils!! Impossible to have a significant advatage to go for prometheus before at least 30 rounds..

This is a legit strategy. Seen it done countless times on the feudal maps. But if someone is getting the 3+2auto, that is only 5 troops. Surely, you can see an advantage to going out to get bonuses. Dead warriors are 3 alone.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:10 am

I agree with betiko, koontz. There is no incentive whatsoever to leave your slave entrance prior to like at least your 5th turn, on any games type, not just no spoils. Dead Warriors are a +3 to take 8 neutrals (not including the paths to get there), and is near impossible to take early in the game.

Additionally, games are over long before they are actually over...it takes at least 7-10 rounds of no attacks by the losing team before the winning team is comfortable taking a neutral 20 in Prometheus, AND can build up enough troops to take out the slave entrances located around the map. I would probably suggest either awarding a large bonus for holding Prometheus (at least +15 or something), decreasing the amount of neutrals on Prometheus to something like n5, or completely reworking the conditional borders, so that Prometheus can attack the slave entrances, and require holding another territory on the map as the condition to attack a slave entrance.

I would probably also suggest getting rid of the killer neutrals on the ring of fire...pretty frustrating having to continually roll against a n1 just to reinforce from the autodeploy, which can easily take 3-4 troops from your stack.

These are just my initial thoughts, but I have not enjoyed the gameplay of this map so far.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Aleena on Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:51 am

Sirens make since now that you explained that - maybe the rules need to be more clear - instead of saying "Can't Attack +2" which I initially thought that means that it neutralizes the areas leading up to her once you capture her (for she can not attack/sing) maybe write is as "Can't Move +2" for you can not move off location not even when using reinforcements movements - or write " Trapped There +2" which would be more clear to new players.

Ring of Fire, I love that ring of fire and concept. No incentive to move out from the slave entrance for the first 5 turns... ?? Not sure of the limitations of the game engine - but maybe you can place a max limit to troops in the slave entrance - if slave entrance qty=>10 then it equals 10. If a simple if statement is not allowed to be added based on the way the game engine is designed - then I agree add the food I guess.

As for the game being over why before it ends - for the player that is dominating the field - once to build up a little more before making the final move - I have a suggestion that will encourage initial moving out of slave entrances and force a player to make the move if they can else they get punished by the gods...

If a player controls 1 to 5 locations they gain +0 deploy each turn
if a player controls 6 to 26 locations then gain +1 only deploy "Gift from the gods"
(gives a little incentive to grab at least 6 areas)
if player controls 27 to 49 locations then gain +2 only deploy as "Divine Blessings"
If player controls 50 to 75 locations then lose - 5 deploy
(player's greed has angered the gods)
if player controls 76 to 150 locations then -1 deploy for every 5 areas controlled
(god's do not like to be defied)
This will hopefully encourage players to grab at least 6 areas and it will encourage players that are dominating the board to finish the game - else the smaller players may be able to build up faster since they gain small bonuses for god blessings/ while a lot the good bonuses captured by the dominating player is stripped from them by the god's because of their greed.

just suggestions
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Vid_FISO on Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:22 am

Not read any of the 38 preceding pages, so apologies if this is covered.

Regarding team play on this map, you can have control of much of the board but only the player that has Prometheus can attack the slave entrances, this is going to be incredibly time consuming, especially in quads, team mates will either have to get out of the way (and have bonuses destroyed by their own team mate(s)) or more than one will have to make for Prometheus to switch control and to speed things up needs the "losing" team to not take advantage of deliberate weakening to prolong the game for however many more moves. Is this likely to encourage some teams to have players deadbeat to give terits/ bonuses and map position to the lead player?

I quite like the map for 1v1 but for team play it's going to be a pain and for 3&4 player dubs a lengthy nightmare for some.
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Re: Labyrinth [21/2] Pg 1/24 BETA

Postby Donelladan on Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:12 am

I dont think it is a good idea to allow prometheus to attack slave entrance. It would make the map too similar to other map like antartica.
Like it is now, this map is quite unique, since you need "2stacks" to eliminate a player, one to take prometheus, one to take his slave entrance.

For team games, I played a 3vs3, it was escalating so it helps for sure, but we had no pb at all.
We have one player that receive the stack, once he controls the map he take prometheus and kill everyone else. I dont think it is a major issue.


@Aleena and Fulchs, you can fort only the way you can attack, you will have same pb on a lot of other map, with one way attack you have one way fort also. Just learn it, if you cant attack that way, you cant fort that way. No need to change the wording here.
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