[Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (7/3/14)

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Balance Change Proposal 10/1

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:49 am

ubcman64 wrote:Is it the object of this map to make zero sense?......You've succeeded. Worst map on CC, hands down.
How did this map make it to BETA status?

Yes it was :lol:

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Balance Change Proposal 10/1

Postby DearCyrus on Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:19 am

Lost your update too! That sucks
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Balance Change Proposal 10/1

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:14 pm

DearCyrus wrote:Lost your update too! That sucks


Yep I will re-post it soon

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Balance Change Proposal 10/1

Postby DearCyrus on Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:24 pm

I was Thinking about the post from yesterday, and I still think that think the gamma bomb should stay separate from the forbidden lands... What if gamma could bombard only basic (non-special) lands? Keep it different enough and also not too powerful.Then Up the killer on FL from 20 to 25...
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Balance Change Proposal 10/1

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:36 pm

Here are the latest changes. I wrote a few paragraphs last night but it was lost. Anyway the changes should balance out the early game and make it a bit more fair when going after the forbidden lands to eliminate your opponents.

Please note that this mat is not balance or fair to every Kingdom/Special Feature combo. Just as you must identify which player on a classic map got the good random drop it is your job as the player of this map to identify which player got the better combo and work with the other players to keep them from getting those bonuses while you work to get your own.

=D13=

Graphic Changes
  • kingdoms are auto 2 (down from 3) and grants +1 bonus (a little less auto and 1 extra troop to deploy. This may promote stacking a bit in team games but then again maybe not).
  • druid bonus change (lets druids get a bonus earlier based on distribution of J and F territories).
  • elementalist bonus change (lets elementalists get a bonus earlier based on distribution of J and F territories).
  • aquatic bonus change (added +1 for minimum 1 adjacent to sea) this mill make max 8 instead of the previous 7 but give a bonus earlier.
  • seas killer 2 down from 3 (more attractive for aquatic).
  • cultists changed to cosmic.
  • the bomb has been removed.
  • changed dwellers to +1 each cavern and +2 for all 3 caverns. (slight decrease based on the caverns adjacent ability being powerful on this small of a map).
  • changed miners/mines to +1, +2, +4 which decreases the single mine bonus and overall by 1 (should balance early game a bit)
  • changed undead/crypts to +1, +2, +4 which decreases the single crypt bonus and overall by 1 (should balance early game a bit)
  • changed wizards special to +1, +2, +4 which decreases the double special bonus and overall by 1 (should balance early game a bit as the forbidden lands bordering territories can be unbalanced for some kingdoms)
  • changed the losing condition to be when you only control a "special features" which includes "horde and underworld" you are eliminated. This will make it so that when you have no troops that can actually affect the board you are out of the game. However if you hold only the "underworld" you will actually not be eliminated you as you can still assault minions on the main map but this is not noted anywhere as players should honestly be able to figure that out and I am out of space on the map for that anyway.
  • added the following "If you hold no basic land D,F,J,M,P,S,T,V your Kingdom may assault any of your favored territories"
  • removed the -1 adjustment for starting bonus making the minimum 1 so that when you start the game you get a minimum 1 basic bonus +1 for a kingdom, and +1 for your favored territory. This will grant you 3 troops to deploy. In a 1-4 player game you will have 5 troops to deploy. With increased neutral buffers on the map and 2 start positions in 1-4 player games I see this as working out fine but we will keep a watchful eye on it.
  • The borders of the Forbidden Lands are now closed to intruders. You must first conquer 3 of your 4 available favored territories then the border will open for you.

Territory Symbols
  • J2 - Crypts now J2 - Radiation
  • V2 now V2 - Crypts
  • F2 Mines - now F2 Crypt
  • V4 - Crypts - Now V4 - Mines
  • P2 - Caverns now P2 - Crypts
  • M2 - Crypts now M2 - Caverns

Cultists / Cosmic
  • Cultists renamed Cosmic
  • a 4th Radiation symbol added to map
  • [Radiation] +1* (each)
  • 2 Radiation = Radiation can assault other Radiation.
  • 3 Radiation = Radiation can assault the Forbidden Lands


Non Graphic Changes
  • reduce underworld to 5n start
  • increase 5n starts to 7n for P4, J3, S4, T4, F3, and M4 (should help discourage early assault)
  • reduce 5n starts to 3n on V2 and D2 (should focus players as this as the best route to the middle)

Krazy Khaos Ensues
  • max 2 start positions (2,3,4 player games will get 2 starts) this means if you start with Dragonkin, Gnomes, Cultists, Fanatics, and Undead you would have "Undead Fanatic Cultists" that got favored territory bonuses from both Volcanic and Mountains. This will make bonuses interesting as overlaps will occur where some territories are both favored and adjacent to favored making it very complicated. Barbarians would have verl little chance of any territories being neither favored or adjacent to favored.

Small v2.0.5
http://imageshack.com/a/img812/3838/pudn.png
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Large v2.0.5
http://imageshack.com/a/img34/2365/famf.png
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Balance Change Proposal 10/1

Postby dolomite13 on Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:58 am

If there are no objections to the above changes I will get that XML ready tonight or tomorrow. And I just need to tweak the image a but in a few spots.

Could we get the map "closed" to new games soon so the games can finish. This update will surely mess up the existing games.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Balance Change Proposal 10/1

Postby Gilligan on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:09 am

dolomite13 wrote:If there are no objections to the above changes I will get that XML ready tonight or tomorrow. And I just need to tweak the image a but in a few spots.

Could we get the map "closed" to new games soon so the games can finish. This update will surely mess up the existing games.

=D13=


Closed to prevent more messing up of games once this XML goes live.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Balance Change Proposal 10/1

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:38 pm

Gilligan wrote:
dolomite13 wrote:If there are no objections to the above changes I will get that XML ready tonight or tomorrow. And I just need to tweak the image a but in a few spots.

Could we get the map "closed" to new games soon so the games can finish. This update will surely mess up the existing games.

=D13=


Closed to prevent more messing up of games once this XML goes live.


Thanx

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:44 pm

NOTE: There are major updates to gameplay in the works and we have closed the map to new games while we wait for all current games to finish. Once all games have finished we will update the xml and graphics and the map will re-open for play. Thank you for your patience and for all of the play-testing that has helped so much in shaping the the map. Hopefully these changes will make the map more fair and more fun to play for everyone.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby DearCyrus on Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:46 pm

=D>Hope they finish soon! I want to get on the updated map! =D>
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:52 pm

DearCyrus wrote:=D>Hope they finish soon! I want to get on the updated map! =D>

Not too fast I hope. I need to finish the updates to the XML tonight or tomorrow night ;)

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby DearCyrus on Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:07 pm

Lol. Understood!
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:05 am

I ended up quite busy last evening. I should have a free hour this evening to make some changes.

I do have one concern now ....

Now that the forbidden lands are closed unless you control 3 favored territories this also means that if you loose your kingdom you can technically never win.

Would it be better to have a different condition to unlock the forbidden lands?

Here are some ideas.

  • control one of each basic land type (8 land types)
  • control a territory with one of each symbol (5 symbols)
  • add a new icon to the map "artifacts" that are evenly spaced around the map and need 3 of them to unlock the forbidden lands.
  • simply require 3 or maybe 4 of the same basic land regardless of weather or not it matches your favored territory.

Any thoughts?

=D13=

p.s. I also need to note that the forbidden lands border is impassible somewhere.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:30 pm

If you are not going to add or remove regions there's no reason to close the map to update it.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:33 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:If you are not going to add or remove regions there's no reason to close the map to update it.


I will be are adding/removing regions and continents.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:33 pm

What if I put an artifact icon on the border between V4/F2 and P2/M2 and S2/T2 and J2/D4 and required you to hold a land that borders 3 of the artifacts? to gain access to the forbidden lands.

That way you need to traverse the map to get to the territories and the distance traveled is 7 territories, the same for all players. This would also mean 2 players could share access and that those 8 territories would be where the fight would go rather then directly at your neighbors starting territory.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:49 pm

ok, please let us know what you add or remove when you post the new xml so we're sure everything is in the right place ;)

Thanks

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:52 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:ok, please let us know what you add or remove when you post the new xml so we're sure everything is in the right place ;)

Thanks


Absolutely :D

Gilligan has been watching the tread closely and I believe he knows that the XML will need another really solid check before we can send this update live.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby Gilligan on Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:54 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:ok, please let us know what you add or remove when you post the new xml so we're sure everything is in the right place ;)

Thanks


Absolutely :D

Gilligan has been watching the tread closely and I believe he knows that the XML will need another really solid check before we can send this update live.

=D13=


Yes, it will... :lol:
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby DearCyrus on Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:36 pm

What about 2 instead of 3, as far as artifacts? Because the outsides of the board will be conquering towards the forbidden lands while the center away from it... Seems like it could unbalance things in a different way. Lol. And maybe spice up the name artifact to "Rune Keys" or some such, as it would open the darkness shutting the border... ;)
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby TaelS on Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:45 am

(EDIT: someone already told me this has been dealt. Sorry).
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:58 am

DearCyrus wrote:What about 2 instead of 3, as far as artifacts? Because the outsides of the board will be conquering towards the forbidden lands while the center away from it... Seems like it could unbalance things in a different way. Lol. And maybe spice up the name artifact to "Rune Keys" or some such, as it would open the darkness shutting the border... ;)


2 might work. It would require any player to go through 4 total territories to get this and not require going to the opposite side of the map immediately. But it may be too fast ... if you stack on me all i need to do is go through 4 territories with 3 in each, a few cached in sets and its forbidden lands time again. If I drop it to 2 then I will need to up the Forbidden lands to 30 from 20 I suspect. I will be devoting some brainpower to this today as time permits ;)

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby DearCyrus on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:41 pm

That makes sense. How many territs might the cosmic need to go through to assult the forbidden lands by teleportation? Having the key condition may make that ability less than ideal...
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:03 pm

DearCyrus wrote:That makes sense. How many territs might the cosmic need to go through to assult the forbidden lands by teleportation? Having the key condition may make that ability less than ideal...


Hmmm... cosmic could remain at 3 as once they have 2 they can jump across the map to get the 3rd and then they can assault the forbidden lands from radiation symbols. They could take J2. P4 and D2 none of which border the forbidden lands and jump over the territories that border it and use the forbidden lands. I would say that their ability to do this is just an interesting bonus over them having a short cut across the map. Its definitely not as good as the bomb was but its still good as I feel the bomb was too good by far.

=D13=
Last edited by dolomite13 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Closed For Balance Updates 10/

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:08 pm

OK here is what I consider the last round of updates before I dive into the XML... It includes a minor change to barbarians bonus and adds the Rune Towers to handle access to the Forbidden lands

=D13=

Graphic Changes
  • kingdoms are auto 2 (down from 3) and grants +1 bonus (a little less auto and 1 extra troop to deploy. This may promote stacking a bit in team games but then again maybe not).
  • druid bonus change (lets druids get a bonus earlier based on distribution of J and F territories).
  • elementalist bonus change (lets elementalists get a bonus earlier based on distribution of J and F territories).
  • aquatic bonus change (added +1 for minimum 1 adjacent to sea) this will make max 8 instead of the previous 7 but give a bonus earlier.
  • seas killer 2 down from 3 (more attractive for aquatic).
  • cultists changed to cosmic.
  • the bomb has been removed.
  • changed Barbarians to gain +1 for each favored territory they control when they also control the Horde.
  • changed dwellers to +1 each cavern and +2 for all 3 caverns. (slight decrease based on the caverns adjacent ability being powerful on this small of a map).
  • changed miners/mines to +1, +2, +4 which decreases the single mine bonus and overall by 1 (should balance early game a bit)
  • changed undead/crypts to +1, +2, +4 which decreases the single crypt bonus and overall by 1 (should balance early game a bit)
  • changed wizards special to +1, +2, +4 which decreases the double special bonus and overall by 1 (should balance early game a bit as the forbidden lands bordering territories can be unbalanced for some kingdoms)
  • changed the losing condition to be when you only control a "special features" which includes "horde and underworld" you are eliminated. This will make it so that when you have no troops that can actually affect the board you are out of the game. However if you hold only the "underworld" you will actually not be eliminated you as you can still assault minions on the main map but this is not noted anywhere as players should honestly be able to figure that out and I am out of space on the map for that anyway.
  • added the following "If you hold no basic land D,F,J,M,P,S,T,V your Kingdom may assault any of your favored territories"
  • removed the -1 adjustment for starting bonus making the minimum 1 so that when you start the game you get a minimum 1 basic bonus +1 for a kingdom, and +1 for your favored territory. This will grant you 3 troops to deploy. In a 1-4 player game you will have 5 troops to deploy. With increased neutral buffers on the map and 2 start positions in 1-4 player games I see this as working out fine but we will keep a watchful eye on it.
  • The borders of the Forbidden Lands are now closed to intruders. You must first territories that border any two of the four available Rune Towers.

Territory Symbols
  • J2 - Crypts now J2 - Radiation
  • V2 now V2 - Crypts
  • F2 Mines - now F2 Crypt
  • V4 - Crypts - Now V4 - Mines
  • P2 - Caverns now P2 - Crypts
  • M2 - Crypts now M2 - Caverns

Cultists / Cosmic
  • Cultists renamed Cosmic
  • a 4th Radiation symbol added to map
  • [Radiation] +1* (each)
  • 2 Radiation = Radiation can assault other Radiation.
  • 3 Radiation = Radiation can assault the Forbidden Lands


Non Graphic Changes
  • reduce underworld and Horde to 5n start
  • reduce 5n starts to 3n on V2 and D2 (should focus players as this as the best route to the middle/rune towers)

Krazy Khaos Ensues
  • max 2 start positions (2,3,4 player games will get 2 starts) this means if you start with Dragonkin, Gnomes, Cultists, Fanatics, and Undead you would have "Undead Fanatic Cultists" that got favored territory bonuses from both Volcanic and Mountains. This will make bonuses interesting as overlaps will occur where some territories are both favored and adjacent to favored making it very complicated. Barbarians would have verl little chance of any territories being neither favored or adjacent to favored.

Small v2.0.6
http://imageshack.com/a/img14/7391/ugpf.png
Image

Large v2.0.6
http://imageshack.com/a/img12/4029/kcut.png
Image
Last edited by dolomite13 on Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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