Conquer Club

Gilligan wrote:

dolomite13 wrote:Shouldn't the admins just be able to delete the waiting games?

In any case we are down to 3 active.

=D13=

Waiting games are gone and active games have a 30 round limit.

I should have this checked within a few days, but it doesn't seem like we're in any sort of rush as we have to wait for the games anyway.

Awesome =)

=D13=

I have to say that I am not one of those people that is never quite satisfied with my work. I always feel like I can improve it and sometimes have a tough time saying something is done. However, last evening I sat back in my chair with a plate of artisan cheese and meats while I sipped on glass of wine and relaxed while I looked at this map. And I have to say I am completely satisfied with the upcoming changes.

I will be very interested to see how the changes with the ability to choose your starting territory will effect the start of the game. Will players opt for the middle going for the quick route to the forbidden lands? will they stack on their kingdom for a few rounds while they decide which favored territory they should claim as their foothold? Will the added icons to the map balance the special feature bonuses and make those bonuses more attractive? will the changes in neutral starting troops make expansion easier? Will the changes make eliminating someone too slow simply prolonging the inevitable? or will they give players a chance to make a comeback?

Nuclear games will be interesting in that you can loose your kingdom leaving only your 1/3 basic land bonus and make you vulnerable to elimination. But at least you can't get nuked out of the game as easily. And although the bonuses are greater to combat no spoils games that take forever it will be interesting to see if the bonuses and possibility of team game stacking are offset by the greater troops on the forbidden lands.

I can hardy wait to find out!

The Cosmic Yeti are coming for you!

=D13=

You enthusiasm is contagious! :D

Alrighty dolomite,

We don't need the individualized barbarian bonuses with the new working

<continent>
<name>Wizard - 2 Blood Tower Territories</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory type="mandatory">V4 - Mines</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">F2 - Crypts</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">P2 - Crypts</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">M2 - Caverns</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">S2 - Minions</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">T2 - Radiation</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">J2 - Crypts</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">D4 - Caverns</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

this and the blood tower bonuses are unholdable as there are 9 mandatories. might as well remove the required tag in that point. I think you just need to remove it. Same with blood water bonuses taht immediately follow.

Gilligan wrote:We don't need the individualized barbarian bonuses with the new working

We still need these... to trigger the barbarian conditional borders for favored territories to horde.. and the required there shouldn't hurt anything should it? I think this is how it was in the previous xml.

<continent>
<name>Treefolk - Barbarians</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory type="mandatory">Treefolk</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">Barbarians</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

<territory>
<name>F1 - Caverns</name>
<borders>
<border>P3</border>
<border>P3</border>
<border condition="Dwellers">T4 - Caverns</border>
<border condition="Dwellers">M2 - Caverns</border>
<border condition="Dwellers">D4 - Caverns</border>
<border condition="Treefolk">M4 - Minions</border>
<border condition="Treefolk - Barbarians">Horde</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>110</smallx>
<smally>161</smally>
<largex>148</largex>
<largey>207</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
</territory>

Gilligan wrote:<continent>
<name>Wizard - 2 Blood Tower Territories</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory type="mandatory">V4 - Mines</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">F2 - Crypts</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">P2 - Crypts</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">M2 - Caverns</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">S2 - Minions</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">T2 - Radiation</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">J2 - Crypts</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">D4 - Caverns</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

this and the blood tower bonuses are unholdable as there are 9 mandatories. might as well remove the required tag in that point. I think you just need to remove it. Same with blood water bonuses taht immediately follow.

You are correct it should have mandatory wizards and be 3 required and the current mandatory removed

<continent>
<name>Wizard - 2 Blood Tower Territories</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory>V4 - Mines</territory>
<territory>F2 - Crypts</territory>
<territory>P2 - Crypts</territory>
<territory>M2 - Caverns</territory>
<territory>S2 - Minions</territory>
<territory>T2 - Radiation</territory>
<territory>J2 - Crypts</territory>
<territory>D4 - Caverns</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">Wizards</territory>
</components>
<required>3</required>
</continent>

the mandatory settings can be removed from the blood tower territories too

<continent>
<name>Blood Tower 3</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory type="mandatory">S2 - Minions</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">T2 - Radiation</territory>
</components>
<required>1</required>
</continent>

Here is the updated xml


=D13=

Alright, dolomite, let's give this a go once the games finish!

can't wait!

DearCyrus wrote:can't wait!

Me Too!

This change will be a shock to the system of those people who team stacked for quick wins or went 8th in an escalating game and simply steamrolled through the forbidden lands or used the bomb to basically win on turn 4 (I know I am guilty of it) I mean that I wanted the map to be fast, but seriously not that fast.

My Cosmic Yeti are waiting to strike

=D13=

p.s. for anyone curious in how much the xml changed ... check out the changes in this online diff tool
http://www.diffnow.com/?report=zn8f7

I updated the OP with images for each of the special features and the main territories for each kingdom.

This should help people understand the map a bit better.

I hope.

=D13=

p.s. only one game active and it is on it's last turn!

Woohooo!

No more active games =)

=D13=

dolomite13 wrote:No more active games =)

=D13=

I am trying to play some test games as we speak!! Stay tuned...

I wanna play a test game!

Dolomite, did you intend to change the starting positions from Dragonkin AND V1 to just Dragonkin? In one of my test games, my opponent was a Cosmic Yeti, took T2 and then took V1 and now I'm in trouble. It also means you cannot fort out of your kingdom

Seems a bit too powerful to be able to attack any of your favored territories on turn 1?

cosmic radiation should be:

<bonus required="2">1</bonus>
<bonus required="3">1</bonus>
<bonus required="4">2</bonus>
<bonus required="5">3</bonus>

cosmic + 1 radiation = +1
cosmic + 2 radiation = +2
cosmic + 3 radiation = +4
cosmic + 4 radiation = +6

Same with Demonic, correct? It's the same bonus structure.

Fanatic bonus is right, but I think the "required" should be 4,5,6.

I double-checked all of the other collections cause of that and the rest seems good.

Looking more in depth now...it seems like Cosmic still may be a bit strong? Considering anyone without Cosmic needs 4 specific territories to attack Forbidden Lands, the Cosmic need only two and can attack it from 4 separate territories. We'll have to see how that plays out! But I might be thinking that Cosmic would be fine without the Forbidden Lands access.

Gilligan wrote:cosmic radiation should be:

<bonus required="2">1</bonus>
<bonus required="3">1</bonus>
<bonus required="4">2</bonus>
<bonus required="5">3</bonus>

cosmic + 1 radiation = +1
cosmic + 2 radiation = +2
cosmic + 3 radiation = +4
cosmic + 4 radiation = +6

Same with Demonic, correct? It's the same bonus structure.

Cosmic uses the "*" which means "each" so it should be

cosmic + 1 radiation = +1 total
cosmic + 2 radiation = +3 total
cosmic + 3 radiation = +4 total
cosmic + 4 radiation = +6 total

So it is wrong but it should actually be this (I will fix that)

<bonus required="2">1</bonus>
<bonus required="3">2</bonus>
<bonus required="4">1</bonus>
<bonus required="5">2</bonus>

The bonus is a bit strange and rewards you for going for 2 and 4 radiation.

And yes Demonic is the same structure (I will fix that) ... again it is to promote using the underworld to try and grab those extra territories for that slightly better bonus at 2 and 4.

The main difference between these two is that you have to get to a second radiation which will take going through at least 3 other territories to get to that second one (that's beating 12 total neutrals) and unlock things but with demonic you can go for the underworld immediately from any minion (only 5 neutral).

Gilligan wrote:Fanatic bonus is right, but I think the "required" should be 4,5,6.

Correct that should be 4,5,6 as the bonus has 2 mandatory territories (I will fix that)

Gilligan wrote:I double-checked all of the other collections cause of that and the rest seems good.

Excellent

Gilligan wrote:Looking more in depth now...it seems like Cosmic still may be a bit strong? Considering anyone without Cosmic needs 4 specific territories to attack Forbidden Lands, the Cosmic need only two and can attack it from 4 separate territories. We'll have to see how that plays out! But I might be thinking that Cosmic would be fine without the Forbidden Lands access.

Actually you do not need all territories that border 2 blood towers, you merely need to have a single territory next to 2 different towers to unlock the borders of the forbidden lands. I think I coded that right. The cosmic player needs 2 radiation to be able to assault the forbidden lands from any radiation and the closest radiation are 4 territories apart.

Cultists were able to assault the bomb by owning a single radiation and it was only 7 neutral to go through. Now they need 2 territories and have to go through 30 neutral. It is more powerful than the bomb but so much harder to put into use. I really like the idea that Cosmic gets to break that forbidden lands access rule as it gives them a bigger target on their back to make up for their abilities.

I am actually of the opinion that Cosmic isn't all that great. A max +6 bonus. Must go through at least 4 territories to get the teleport to open up. And the forbidden lands is neutral 30 so pretty unusable until the late game. Demonic, Dwellers and even Wizards move about the much sooner. That added assault on the forbidden lands won't really be used unless you are down to only a few players and you have been shut out of the 6 territories bordering the forbidden lands.

Hope that clears it up.

=D13=

Fixed XML

Ohh ohh, I missed the <required> tag in the Blood Tower bonus. Yes that makes more sense and much better!

And yeah you're right about Cosmic/Demonic bonus as well. Got my mind a bit mixed up with the two separate bonuses in one continent!

EDIT: did you see this post, D?

Dolomite, did you intend to change the starting positions from Dragonkin AND V1 to just Dragonkin? In one of my test games, my opponent was a Cosmic Yeti, took T2 and then took V1 and now I'm in trouble. It also means you cannot fort out of your kingdom

Seems a bit too powerful to be able to attack any of your favored territories on turn 1?

Gilligan wrote:Ohh ohh, I missed the <required> tag in the Blood Tower bonus. Yes that makes more sense and much better!

And yeah you're right about Cosmic/Demonic bonus as well. Got my mind a bit mixed up with the two separate bonuses in one continent!

Yep that two separate bonuses might trip up a lot of people.

Hopefully the xml I posted will be all the fixes that were necessary

=D13=

Gilligan wrote: Dolomite, did you intend to change the starting positions from Dragonkin AND V1 to just Dragonkin? In one of my test games, my opponent was a Cosmic Yeti, took T2 and then took V1 and now I'm in trouble. It also means you cannot fort out of your kingdom

Seems a bit too powerful to be able to attack any of your favored territories on turn 1?

Yes the change makes it so you could conquer any of your favored on turn one. The problem I am seeing at the moment is that you can;t reinforce it once you have it. But once someone knocks you out you should be able to conquer a different favored territory. I sent you a PM about it.

=D13=

dolomite13 wrote:

Gilligan wrote: Dolomite, did you intend to change the starting positions from Dragonkin AND V1 to just Dragonkin? In one of my test games, my opponent was a Cosmic Yeti, took T2 and then took V1 and now I'm in trouble. It also means you cannot fort out of your kingdom

Seems a bit too powerful to be able to attack any of your favored territories on turn 1?

Yes the change makes it so you could conquer any of your favored on turn one. The problem I am seeing at the moment is that you can;t reinforce it once you have it. But once someone knocks you out you should be able to conquer a different favored territory. I sent you a PM about it.

=D13=

What if you just do this?

<territory>
<name>Dragonkin</name>
<borders>
<border>V1 - Radiation</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V2</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V3</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V4 - Mines</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>394</smallx>
<smally>79</smally>
<largex>529</largex>
<largey>98</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>

This way...you can still attack any of your favored lands and still be able to reinforce to your closest one.

"If your Kingdom holds no basic land, it may assault any of its 2, 3, or 4 favored territories. It can always assault your 1 territory".

Gilligan wrote: "If your Kingdom holds no basic land, it may assault any of its 2, 3, or 4 favored territories. It can always assault your 1 territory".

The idea is to allow you to start on any of your favored territories. Making it harder to get taken out by multi-player stacking and to make it more interesting in fog games.

I will add some continents with kingdoms and territories then use them as a conditional border for kingdoms so that you can always one way assault (for reinforcement purposes) any favored territory that you have already conquered and you can only conquer a favored territory that you don't already control if you control no favored territories. And would fit the gameplay I am going for.

This will take me about 20 minutes to do this evening when I get home.

=D13=

that might be intense on the code, I'm trying to think of a way to do it.

you might have to create a 0 bonus continent for each territory. Dragonkin and V1 and add that as a condition to Dragonkin.

something like this:

<territory>
<name>Dragonkin</name>
<borders>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V1 - Radiation</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V2</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V3</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V4 - Mines</border>
<border condition="Dragonkin and V1">V1 - Radiation</border>
<border condition="Dragonkin and V2">V2</border>
<border condition="Dragonkin and V3">V3</border>
<border condition="Dragonkin and V4">V4 - Mines</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>394</smallx>
<smally>79</smally>
<largex>529</largex>
<largey>98</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>

Yep sort of like this I would guess

<continent>
<name>Gnome - M1 - Caverns</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory>Gnomes</territory>
<territory>M1 - Caverns</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

<continent>
<name>Gnomes - M2 - Caverns</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory>Gnomes</territory>
<territory>M2 - Caverns</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

<continent>
<name>Gnomes - M3</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory>Gnomes</territory>
<territory>M3</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

<continent>
<name>Gnomes- V4 - Mines</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory>Gnomes</territory>
<territory>V4 - Mines</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

<territory>
<name>Gnomes</name>
<borders>
<border condition="No Basic Land">M1 - Crypts</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">M2 - Caverns</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">M3</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">M4 - Minions</border>
<border condition="Gnomes - M1 - Crypts">M1 - Crypts</border>
<border condition="Gnomes - M2 - Crypts">M2 - Caverns</border>
<border condition="Gnomes - M3">M3</border>
<border condition="Gnomes - M4 - Minions">M4 - Minions</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>274</smallx>
<smally>425</smally>
<largex>368</largex>
<largey>560</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>

you don't need the required tags.

this will make the file much bigger.