[Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (7/3/14)

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:30 pm

Alright, dolomite, let's give this a go once the games finish!
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby DearCyrus on Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:38 pm

can't wait!
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:45 pm

DearCyrus wrote:can't wait!


Me Too!

This change will be a shock to the system of those people who team stacked for quick wins or went 8th in an escalating game and simply steamrolled through the forbidden lands or used the bomb to basically win on turn 4 (I know I am guilty of it) I mean that I wanted the map to be fast, but seriously not that fast.

My Cosmic Yeti are waiting to strike ;)

=D13=

p.s. for anyone curious in how much the xml changed ... check out the changes in this online diff tool
http://www.diffnow.com/?report=zn8f7
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:41 pm

I updated the OP with images for each of the special features and the main territories for each kingdom.

This should help people understand the map a bit better.

I hope.

=D13=

p.s. only one game active and it is on it's last turn!
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby DearCyrus on Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:19 pm

Woohooo!
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:01 pm

No more active games =)

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:02 pm

dolomite13 wrote:No more active games =)

=D13=


I am trying to play some test games as we speak!! Stay tuned...
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby DearCyrus on Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:24 pm

I wanna play a test game!
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:21 pm

Dolomite, did you intend to change the starting positions from Dragonkin AND V1 to just Dragonkin? In one of my test games, my opponent was a Cosmic Yeti, took T2 and then took V1 and now I'm in trouble. :( It also means you cannot fort out of your kingdom

Seems a bit too powerful to be able to attack any of your favored territories on turn 1?
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:48 pm

cosmic radiation should be:

<bonus required="2">1</bonus>
<bonus required="3">1</bonus>
<bonus required="4">2</bonus>
<bonus required="5">3</bonus>

cosmic + 1 radiation = +1
cosmic + 2 radiation = +2
cosmic + 3 radiation = +4
cosmic + 4 radiation = +6

Same with Demonic, correct? It's the same bonus structure.

Fanatic bonus is right, but I think the "required" should be 4,5,6.

I double-checked all of the other collections cause of that and the rest seems good.

Looking more in depth now...it seems like Cosmic still may be a bit strong? Considering anyone without Cosmic needs 4 specific territories to attack Forbidden Lands, the Cosmic need only two and can attack it from 4 separate territories. We'll have to see how that plays out! But I might be thinking that Cosmic would be fine without the Forbidden Lands access.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:41 pm

Gilligan wrote:cosmic radiation should be:

<bonus required="2">1</bonus>
<bonus required="3">1</bonus>
<bonus required="4">2</bonus>
<bonus required="5">3</bonus>

cosmic + 1 radiation = +1
cosmic + 2 radiation = +2
cosmic + 3 radiation = +4
cosmic + 4 radiation = +6

Same with Demonic, correct? It's the same bonus structure.


Cosmic uses the "*" which means "each" so it should be

cosmic + 1 radiation = +1 total
cosmic + 2 radiation = +3 total
cosmic + 3 radiation = +4 total
cosmic + 4 radiation = +6 total

So it is wrong but it should actually be this (I will fix that)

<bonus required="2">1</bonus>
<bonus required="3">2</bonus>
<bonus required="4">1</bonus>
<bonus required="5">2</bonus>

The bonus is a bit strange and rewards you for going for 2 and 4 radiation.

And yes Demonic is the same structure (I will fix that) ... again it is to promote using the underworld to try and grab those extra territories for that slightly better bonus at 2 and 4.

The main difference between these two is that you have to get to a second radiation which will take going through at least 3 other territories to get to that second one (that's beating 12 total neutrals) and unlock things but with demonic you can go for the underworld immediately from any minion (only 5 neutral).

Gilligan wrote:Fanatic bonus is right, but I think the "required" should be 4,5,6.


Correct that should be 4,5,6 as the bonus has 2 mandatory territories (I will fix that)

Gilligan wrote:I double-checked all of the other collections cause of that and the rest seems good.


Excellent

Gilligan wrote:Looking more in depth now...it seems like Cosmic still may be a bit strong? Considering anyone without Cosmic needs 4 specific territories to attack Forbidden Lands, the Cosmic need only two and can attack it from 4 separate territories. We'll have to see how that plays out! But I might be thinking that Cosmic would be fine without the Forbidden Lands access.


Actually you do not need all territories that border 2 blood towers, you merely need to have a single territory next to 2 different towers to unlock the borders of the forbidden lands. I think I coded that right. The cosmic player needs 2 radiation to be able to assault the forbidden lands from any radiation and the closest radiation are 4 territories apart.

Cultists were able to assault the bomb by owning a single radiation and it was only 7 neutral to go through. Now they need 2 territories and have to go through 30 neutral. It is more powerful than the bomb but so much harder to put into use. I really like the idea that Cosmic gets to break that forbidden lands access rule as it gives them a bigger target on their back to make up for their abilities.

I am actually of the opinion that Cosmic isn't all that great. A max +6 bonus. Must go through at least 4 territories to get the teleport to open up. And the forbidden lands is neutral 30 so pretty unusable until the late game. Demonic, Dwellers and even Wizards move about the much sooner. That added assault on the forbidden lands won't really be used unless you are down to only a few players and you have been shut out of the 6 territories bordering the forbidden lands.

Hope that clears it up.

=D13=

Fixed XML
KKFinal303b.xml
Fixed based on the above post...
(74.1 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:51 pm

Ohh ohh, I missed the <required> tag in the Blood Tower bonus. Yes that makes more sense and much better!

And yeah you're right about Cosmic/Demonic bonus as well. Got my mind a bit mixed up with the two separate bonuses in one continent!

EDIT: did you see this post, D?

Dolomite, did you intend to change the starting positions from Dragonkin AND V1 to just Dragonkin? In one of my test games, my opponent was a Cosmic Yeti, took T2 and then took V1 and now I'm in trouble. :( It also means you cannot fort out of your kingdom

Seems a bit too powerful to be able to attack any of your favored territories on turn 1?
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:55 pm

Gilligan wrote:Ohh ohh, I missed the <required> tag in the Blood Tower bonus. Yes that makes more sense and much better!

And yeah you're right about Cosmic/Demonic bonus as well. Got my mind a bit mixed up with the two separate bonuses in one continent!


Yep that two separate bonuses might trip up a lot of people.

Hopefully the xml I posted will be all the fixes that were necessary ;)

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:06 pm

Gilligan wrote: Dolomite, did you intend to change the starting positions from Dragonkin AND V1 to just Dragonkin? In one of my test games, my opponent was a Cosmic Yeti, took T2 and then took V1 and now I'm in trouble. :( It also means you cannot fort out of your kingdom

Seems a bit too powerful to be able to attack any of your favored territories on turn 1?


Yes the change makes it so you could conquer any of your favored on turn one. The problem I am seeing at the moment is that you can;t reinforce it once you have it. But once someone knocks you out you should be able to conquer a different favored territory. I sent you a PM about it.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:08 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
Gilligan wrote: Dolomite, did you intend to change the starting positions from Dragonkin AND V1 to just Dragonkin? In one of my test games, my opponent was a Cosmic Yeti, took T2 and then took V1 and now I'm in trouble. :( It also means you cannot fort out of your kingdom

Seems a bit too powerful to be able to attack any of your favored territories on turn 1?


Yes the change makes it so you could conquer any of your favored on turn one. The problem I am seeing at the moment is that you can;t reinforce it once you have it. But once someone knocks you out you should be able to conquer a different favored territory. I sent you a PM about it.

=D13=


What if you just do this?

<territory>
<name>Dragonkin</name>
<borders>
<border>V1 - Radiation</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V2</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V3</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V4 - Mines</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>394</smallx>
<smally>79</smally>
<largex>529</largex>
<largey>98</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>

This way...you can still attack any of your favored lands and still be able to reinforce to your closest one.

"If your Kingdom holds no basic land, it may assault any of its 2, 3, or 4 favored territories. It can always assault your 1 territory".
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:20 pm

Gilligan wrote: "If your Kingdom holds no basic land, it may assault any of its 2, 3, or 4 favored territories. It can always assault your 1 territory".


The idea is to allow you to start on any of your favored territories. Making it harder to get taken out by multi-player stacking and to make it more interesting in fog games.

I will add some continents with kingdoms and territories then use them as a conditional border for kingdoms so that you can always one way assault (for reinforcement purposes) any favored territory that you have already conquered and you can only conquer a favored territory that you don't already control if you control no favored territories. And would fit the gameplay I am going for.

This will take me about 20 minutes to do this evening when I get home.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:22 pm

that might be intense on the code, I'm trying to think of a way to do it.

you might have to create a 0 bonus continent for each territory. Dragonkin and V1 and add that as a condition to Dragonkin.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:26 pm

something like this:

<territory>
<name>Dragonkin</name>
<borders>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V1 - Radiation</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V2</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V3</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">V4 - Mines</border>
<border condition="Dragonkin and V1">V1 - Radiation</border>
<border condition="Dragonkin and V2">V2</border>
<border condition="Dragonkin and V3">V3</border>
<border condition="Dragonkin and V4">V4 - Mines</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>394</smallx>
<smally>79</smally>
<largex>529</largex>
<largey>98</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:31 pm

Yep sort of like this I would guess

<continent>
<name>Gnome - M1 - Caverns</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory>Gnomes</territory>
<territory>M1 - Caverns</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

<continent>
<name>Gnomes - M2 - Caverns</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory>Gnomes</territory>
<territory>M2 - Caverns</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

<continent>
<name>Gnomes - M3</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory>Gnomes</territory>
<territory>M3</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

<continent>
<name>Gnomes- V4 - Mines</name>
<bonus>0</bonus>
<components>
<territory>Gnomes</territory>
<territory>V4 - Mines</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

<territory>
<name>Gnomes</name>
<borders>
<border condition="No Basic Land">M1 - Crypts</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">M2 - Caverns</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">M3</border>
<border condition="No Basic Land">M4 - Minions</border>
<border condition="Gnomes - M1 - Crypts">M1 - Crypts</border>
<border condition="Gnomes - M2 - Crypts">M2 - Caverns</border>
<border condition="Gnomes - M3">M3</border>
<border condition="Gnomes - M4 - Minions">M4 - Minions</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>274</smallx>
<smally>425</smally>
<largex>368</largex>
<largey>560</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:37 pm

you don't need the required tags.

this will make the file much bigger.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:49 pm

Gilligan wrote:you don't need the required tags.

this will make the file much bigger.


I'll knock this out when I get home and we can see how that works.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:22 pm

OK this xml should allow you to reinforce favored territories that you control.

I'm probably not going to add that to the key as it should just be a given... at least I feel like people will figure it out pretty quick.

KKFinal303c.xml
(81.68 KiB) Downloaded 10 times


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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:49 pm

dolomite13 wrote:OK this xml should allow you to reinforce favored territories that you control.

I'm probably not going to add that to the key as it should just be a given... at least I feel like people will figure it out pretty quick.

KKFinal303c.xml


=D13=


I agree.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:00 pm

Dolomite, this XML does not work.

Code: Select all
<territory>
   <name>Treefolk</name>
   <borders>
      <border condition="No Basic Land">F1 - Caverns</border>
      <border condition="No Basic Land">F2 - Crypts</border>
      <border condition="No Basic Land">F3</border>
      <border condition="No Basic Land">F4</border>
      <border condition="Treefolk - F1 - Caverns">F1 - Caverns</border>
      <border condition="Treefolk - F2 - Crypts">F2 - Crypts</border>
      <border condition="Treefolk - F3">F3</border>
      <border condition="Treefolk - F4">F4</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>36</smallx>
      <smally>79</smally>
      <largex>51</largex>
      <largey>98</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>3</neutral>
   <bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>


It appears that the engine reads this as follows:
Condition = "No Basic Land" AND "Treefolk - F3" to attack F3

It does NOT read it as follows:
Condition = "No Basic Land" OR "Treefolk - F3" to attack F3
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 10/29

Postby Gilligan on Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:49 pm

dolomite,

I will propose this.

Leave the code the way it is. You can attack out only once. Lose the autodeploy to forget the lack of reinforcement. Or just leave the autodeploy for future turns if you don't have any land territories.

Then, we exclude nukes for this map. This way, you cannot lose your kingdom and just as important, your special features.
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