[Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (7/3/14)

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 11/7

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:54 pm

updated small image above so we are good to go

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 11/7

Postby DearCyrus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:06 am

Any news?
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 11/7

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:05 pm

DearCyrus wrote:Any news?

I haven't heard anything since posting the last update that should have fixed several problems that Gilligan and I saw while testing it last week.

I am hoping we can get this updated on the live servers soon (in the next week or two) but with the number of changes we want to make sure the the xml works as intended. I would like to not go through another overhaul like this last one again if we can avoid it.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 11/7

Postby DearCyrus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:41 pm

That is more than understandable! ;)
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 11/7

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:00 pm

Looks like testing has uncovered a few bugs ... I am working on them now.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 11/7

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:06 pm

Looks like we found a few bugs with conditional borders. To condition statements in the xml that end on the same territory and originate from the same territory acted like you needed both conditions. I was able to make some virtual continents for the territories that border chasms like "Human or Yeti" to fix some of this. But I had to make a change to a few territories to make it all work. D4 - Caverns becomes D4 - Radiation, S4 - Mines becomes S4 - Caverns, T2 - Radiation becomes T2 - Mines. These changes should fix all the conditional border issues and hopefully Gilligan and I can test this tomorrow.

=D13=

XML - v3.0.5
KKFinal305.xml
(70.84 KiB) Downloaded 22 times


SMALL - v3.0.5
http://imageshack.com/a/img513/3381/8451.png
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Large - v3.0.5
http://imageshack.com/a/img850/231/nvqz.png
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby DearCyrus on Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:29 pm

Are we in a "no news is good news" kind of situation? ;)
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:55 pm

DearCyrus wrote:Are we in a "no news is good news" kind of situation? ;)

I think Gilligan needs to upload this latest update to the beta server so he and I can give it a test yet. I was hoping he would get to it this past week but I haven't heard anything.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby Gilligan on Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:31 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
DearCyrus wrote:Are we in a "no news is good news" kind of situation? ;)

I think Gilligan needs to upload this latest update to the beta server so he and I can give it a test yet. I was hoping he would get to it this past week but I haven't heard anything.

=D13=


I can't upload anything, that has to be tnb. I sent him a message a few days ago about it.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML Uploaded 11/7

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:51 pm

The files below are available for testing

dolomite13 wrote:XML - v3.0.5
KKFinal305.xml


SMALL - v3.0.5
http://imageshack.com/a/img513/3381/8451.png
Image

Large - v3.0.5
http://imageshack.com/a/img850/231/nvqz.png
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:55 pm

Testing so far it looks promising. I will play a few more test games this evening to make sure.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:07 pm

After a few more test games I am not seeing any issues with connections or bonuses.

I would like to take one more day (today) and do a little more test gaming on the beta server before calling it ready to roll.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby agentcom on Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:02 am

This map is absolutely amazing. I think it might be the coolest map that I've ever seen. Nice job working with all the different XML to make this.

Couple of things I noticed on the map:

You never say what symbol denotes a Blood Tower. It takes a very long time figure out what a Blood Tower is just by looking at the map. You kind of have to do process of elimination and figure out that everything else means something else and the words "Blood Tower" are kind of close to the little black and red symbol in one corner of the key. I would think that should be labeled more clearly, perhaps where you define the other territory types.

The reason I was even looking for the Blood Tower is that I was trying to figure out what the deal was with the Forbidden Lands. As it stands now, it's really unclear what the interaction is between the Blood Towers and the Forbidden Lands. If you mean that you have to control 2 territs that border a Blood Tower in order to attack the Forbidden lands, then why not just say that? As it stands now, there are a few problems with the wording. First there are no "territories that border 2 Blood Towers" that I can see. Second, I am unclear on what "its impassible borders." Does that mean that you have to hold 2 Blood Tower-bordering territs in order to attack the Forbidden Lands? Third and much more minor point is that "borders" is misspelled down in that same area.

Also, I spent a long time trying to figure out where the asterisks along the right side were trying to lead me to. I finally figured out that the asterisks refer back into the middle of the panel second from left. This is hardly an intuitive place to look for what an asterisk means. I would suggest copying the asterisk definition (by this I mean the "* = each" text) and putting it also at the bottom right of the map, where people will naturally look to find out what the asterisk means.

Anyway, that's all I see from the visual/understanding part of things. I'll let you know if I find any problems with the gameplay.

Nice work.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby Gilligan on Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:26 am

The Blood Tower description is on the bottom right, to the left of Wizards

For the asterisks... I was thinking it would be easier just to say it outright.

1 (nuke) +1
2 (nuke) +2
3 (nuke) +4
4 (nuke) +6

this would be much easier to really comprehend.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:33 pm

agentcom wrote:This map is absolutely amazing. I think it might be the coolest map that I've ever seen. Nice job working with all the different XML to make this.

Thanx =)

agentcom wrote:You never say what symbol denotes a Blood Tower. It takes a very long time figure out what a Blood Tower is just by looking at the map. You kind of have to do process of elimination and figure out that everything else means something else and the words "Blood Tower" are kind of close to the little black and red symbol in one corner of the key. I would think that should be labeled more clearly, perhaps where you define the other territory types.

The reason I was even looking for the Blood Tower is that I was trying to figure out what the deal was with the Forbidden Lands. As it stands now, it's really unclear what the interaction is between the Blood Towers and the Forbidden Lands. If you mean that you have to control 2 territs that border a Blood Tower in order to attack the Forbidden lands, then why not just say that? As it stands now, there are a few problems with the wording. First there are no "territories that border 2 Blood Towers" that I can see. Second, I am unclear on what "its impassible borders." Does that mean that you have to hold 2 Blood Tower-bordering territs in order to attack the Forbidden Lands? Third and much more minor point is that "borders" is misspelled down in that same area.

You have to control any amount of territories (1 or 2) that border two different blood towers to open the borders of the forbidden lands. And the 6 territories that border the forbidden lands are the only ones that can assault the forbidden lands. However Cosmic can also bypass the impassible border with their special feature. I will take a look at the wording and see if their is a way to make it clearer.

Thanx for catching that typo.

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agentcom wrote:Also, I spent a long time trying to figure out where the asterisks along the right side were trying to lead me to. I finally figured out that the asterisks refer back into the middle of the panel second from left. This is hardly an intuitive place to look for what an asterisk means. I would suggest copying the asterisk definition (by this I mean the "* = each" text) and putting it also at the bottom right of the map, where people will naturally look to find out what the asterisk means.

Hmmm... I put the definition in the "Bonus" section of the main map key as that should be the first place you encounter an asterisk. I suppose it should be called out better and I will see what I can do.

Gilligan wrote:For the asterisks... I was thinking it would be easier just to say it outright.
1 (nuke) +1
2 (nuke) +2
3 (nuke) +4
4 (nuke) +6
this would be much easier to really comprehend.

But take up much more space and probably require a serious redo of the special feature section once again. I would rather use the asterisk to denote "each" and let people figure it out to be honest.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:12 pm

I have added a red glow to the "*=each" line and spaced it out better so your eye is drawn to it easier. I also added a "Blood Tower" entry to the key under Radiation and fixed the typo.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby agentcom on Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:50 am

Gilligan wrote:The Blood Tower description is on the bottom right, to the left of Wizards

Yeah, it's there now ....

For the asterisks... I was thinking it would be easier just to say it outright.

1 (nuke) +1
2 (nuke) +2
3 (nuke) +4
4 (nuke) +6

this would be much easier to really comprehend.


Actually, in most of the places with an asterisk on the right, you have plenty of space to just write out "each." Alternatively, I think the abbreviation "ea." is universal enough to substitute, but I could be wrong. A final option is to denote it with a "per" or a "/" as in "+1 / <nuke>"
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby agentcom on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:03 am

Wow. That was really quick, you addressed most of my concerns. Looks great. I still think there might be trouble with the "each" but unfortunately one only gets one "first look" at a map, so I'm not sure if I would still have the trouble. I posted some comments on the issue above (alternative options), but also I'm not sure that I see the harm in adding another "* = each" to the bottom right corner so that people who are reading down the right hand side as I did will see the asterisk definition. It's not intuitive to look for the definition of an asterisk that appears in the right hand column in the middle left of the key.

dolomite13 wrote:

You have to control any amount of territories (1 or 2) that border two different blood towers to open the borders of the forbidden lands. And the 6 territories that border the forbidden lands are the only ones that can assault the forbidden lands. However Cosmic can also bypass the impassible border with their special feature. I will take a look at the wording and see if their is a way to make it clearer.



OK, that's much clearer to me now. Thank you. I still worry that it's not clear from the map itself. I later read your OP with all the narrative about the map and found the answer. That narrative is awesome and will be a great addition to the Foundry for people like me who occasionally like to read the story behind a map. But I'm guessing that well over 99% of people will never do so.

Could I suggest that you add the word "different" to your description? To me that would clear up the ambiguity. So it would appear like this:

"Control territs that border 2 different Blood Towers ..."

I realize that you're running out of space down there. If the addition of that word would cause significant problems, then I would suggest using "dif." instead of different. Or even replacing the text "different Blood Towers" with "different <symbol>'s" where <symbol> is the red and black BT symbol. You also have the option of removing the word "impassible" from the definition. The fact that you have to "unlock" them implies that they are otherwise impassible (except for the Cosmic, ofc). Another option is to replace "that border" with "bordering." Also, you could free up a tiny bit of space by removing the BT symbol from the upper right of that legend entry since BT is now more effectively defined elsewhere.

OK, I just noticed another way. Do you still have Autodeploys on the map? If not, you could (should) remove the Auto definition. Then you could move the Killer definition to two rows and reduce the column size. This would free up room to expand the FL explanation.

HTH
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:24 am

agentcom wrote:OK, I just noticed another way. Do you still have Autodeploys on the map? If not, you could (should) remove the Auto definition. Then you could move the Killer definition to two rows and reduce the column size. This would free up room to expand the FL explanation.


I think your right ... I will look at that today.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:58 pm

I decided to leave the *=each to that one location in the key as moving around the right column and its unit circles even to add one line is a lot of work. I did however make the changes to the forbidden lands and removed the "auto" definition as it is indeed no longer a mechanic on the map.

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby agentcom on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:30 pm

dolomite13 wrote:I decided to leave the *=each to that one location in the key as moving around the right column and its unit circles even to add one line is a lot of work. I did however make the changes to the forbidden lands and removed the "auto" definition as it is indeed no longer a mechanic on the map.



Cool. Glad I could help.

I do think that what you did with the red around the asterisk makes it more noticeable.

As I'm sure you can tell by my comments, this map really piqued my interest. It's really a work of art.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:32 pm

agentcom wrote:As I'm sure you can tell by my comments, this map really piqued my interest. It's really a work of art.

Thanks, and thanks for the help =)

=D13=
[b]On Sabatacle ... Sorry [b]
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Updated Map 12/07

Postby DearCyrus on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:18 pm

Key looks better in the new update. Sorry I haven't been active lately... this map is still one of my favorites. Can't wait to see it back in play!
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby dolomite13 on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:24 pm

This XML fixes the latest "cosmic" bug found.

KKFinal307.xml
(70.84 KiB) Downloaded 18 times


=D13=
[b]On Sabatacle ... Sorry [b]
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