[Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (7/3/14)

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:33 pm

agentcom wrote:This map is absolutely amazing. I think it might be the coolest map that I've ever seen. Nice job working with all the different XML to make this.

Thanx =)

agentcom wrote:You never say what symbol denotes a Blood Tower. It takes a very long time figure out what a Blood Tower is just by looking at the map. You kind of have to do process of elimination and figure out that everything else means something else and the words "Blood Tower" are kind of close to the little black and red symbol in one corner of the key. I would think that should be labeled more clearly, perhaps where you define the other territory types.

The reason I was even looking for the Blood Tower is that I was trying to figure out what the deal was with the Forbidden Lands. As it stands now, it's really unclear what the interaction is between the Blood Towers and the Forbidden Lands. If you mean that you have to control 2 territs that border a Blood Tower in order to attack the Forbidden lands, then why not just say that? As it stands now, there are a few problems with the wording. First there are no "territories that border 2 Blood Towers" that I can see. Second, I am unclear on what "its impassible borders." Does that mean that you have to hold 2 Blood Tower-bordering territs in order to attack the Forbidden Lands? Third and much more minor point is that "borders" is misspelled down in that same area.

You have to control any amount of territories (1 or 2) that border two different blood towers to open the borders of the forbidden lands. And the 6 territories that border the forbidden lands are the only ones that can assault the forbidden lands. However Cosmic can also bypass the impassible border with their special feature. I will take a look at the wording and see if their is a way to make it clearer.

Thanx for catching that typo.

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agentcom wrote:Also, I spent a long time trying to figure out where the asterisks along the right side were trying to lead me to. I finally figured out that the asterisks refer back into the middle of the panel second from left. This is hardly an intuitive place to look for what an asterisk means. I would suggest copying the asterisk definition (by this I mean the "* = each" text) and putting it also at the bottom right of the map, where people will naturally look to find out what the asterisk means.

Hmmm... I put the definition in the "Bonus" section of the main map key as that should be the first place you encounter an asterisk. I suppose it should be called out better and I will see what I can do.

Gilligan wrote:For the asterisks... I was thinking it would be easier just to say it outright.
1 (nuke) +1
2 (nuke) +2
3 (nuke) +4
4 (nuke) +6
this would be much easier to really comprehend.

But take up much more space and probably require a serious redo of the special feature section once again. I would rather use the asterisk to denote "each" and let people figure it out to be honest.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:12 pm

I have added a red glow to the "*=each" line and spaced it out better so your eye is drawn to it easier. I also added a "Blood Tower" entry to the key under Radiation and fixed the typo.

=D13=

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby agentcom on Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:50 am

Gilligan wrote:The Blood Tower description is on the bottom right, to the left of Wizards

Yeah, it's there now ....

For the asterisks... I was thinking it would be easier just to say it outright.

1 (nuke) +1
2 (nuke) +2
3 (nuke) +4
4 (nuke) +6

this would be much easier to really comprehend.


Actually, in most of the places with an asterisk on the right, you have plenty of space to just write out "each." Alternatively, I think the abbreviation "ea." is universal enough to substitute, but I could be wrong. A final option is to denote it with a "per" or a "/" as in "+1 / <nuke>"
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby agentcom on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:03 am

Wow. That was really quick, you addressed most of my concerns. Looks great. I still think there might be trouble with the "each" but unfortunately one only gets one "first look" at a map, so I'm not sure if I would still have the trouble. I posted some comments on the issue above (alternative options), but also I'm not sure that I see the harm in adding another "* = each" to the bottom right corner so that people who are reading down the right hand side as I did will see the asterisk definition. It's not intuitive to look for the definition of an asterisk that appears in the right hand column in the middle left of the key.

dolomite13 wrote:

You have to control any amount of territories (1 or 2) that border two different blood towers to open the borders of the forbidden lands. And the 6 territories that border the forbidden lands are the only ones that can assault the forbidden lands. However Cosmic can also bypass the impassible border with their special feature. I will take a look at the wording and see if their is a way to make it clearer.



OK, that's much clearer to me now. Thank you. I still worry that it's not clear from the map itself. I later read your OP with all the narrative about the map and found the answer. That narrative is awesome and will be a great addition to the Foundry for people like me who occasionally like to read the story behind a map. But I'm guessing that well over 99% of people will never do so.

Could I suggest that you add the word "different" to your description? To me that would clear up the ambiguity. So it would appear like this:

"Control territs that border 2 different Blood Towers ..."

I realize that you're running out of space down there. If the addition of that word would cause significant problems, then I would suggest using "dif." instead of different. Or even replacing the text "different Blood Towers" with "different <symbol>'s" where <symbol> is the red and black BT symbol. You also have the option of removing the word "impassible" from the definition. The fact that you have to "unlock" them implies that they are otherwise impassible (except for the Cosmic, ofc). Another option is to replace "that border" with "bordering." Also, you could free up a tiny bit of space by removing the BT symbol from the upper right of that legend entry since BT is now more effectively defined elsewhere.

OK, I just noticed another way. Do you still have Autodeploys on the map? If not, you could (should) remove the Auto definition. Then you could move the Killer definition to two rows and reduce the column size. This would free up room to expand the FL explanation.

HTH
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:24 am

agentcom wrote:OK, I just noticed another way. Do you still have Autodeploys on the map? If not, you could (should) remove the Auto definition. Then you could move the Killer definition to two rows and reduce the column size. This would free up room to expand the FL explanation.


I think your right ... I will look at that today.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:58 pm

I decided to leave the *=each to that one location in the key as moving around the right column and its unit circles even to add one line is a lot of work. I did however make the changes to the forbidden lands and removed the "auto" definition as it is indeed no longer a mechanic on the map.

=D13=

Large v3.0.7
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby agentcom on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:30 pm

dolomite13 wrote:I decided to leave the *=each to that one location in the key as moving around the right column and its unit circles even to add one line is a lot of work. I did however make the changes to the forbidden lands and removed the "auto" definition as it is indeed no longer a mechanic on the map.



Cool. Glad I could help.

I do think that what you did with the red around the asterisk makes it more noticeable.

As I'm sure you can tell by my comments, this map really piqued my interest. It's really a work of art.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Revised XML/Map Uploaded 11/13

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:32 pm

agentcom wrote:As I'm sure you can tell by my comments, this map really piqued my interest. It's really a work of art.

Thanks, and thanks for the help =)

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Updated Map 12/07

Postby DearCyrus on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:18 pm

Key looks better in the new update. Sorry I haven't been active lately... this map is still one of my favorites. Can't wait to see it back in play!
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby dolomite13 on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:24 pm

This XML fixes the latest "cosmic" bug found.

KKFinal307.xml
(70.84 KiB) Downloaded 14 times


=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby betiko on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:09 pm

hi dolomite, so this means that it will soon be back?
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:46 pm

betiko wrote:hi dolomite, so this means that it will soon be back?


Hope so... I think we are close.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby Gilligan on Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:09 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
betiko wrote:hi dolomite, so this means that it will soon be back?


Hope so... I think we are close.

=D13=


I've sent the files to tnb, so he can compress then and send to bigwham!
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby Gilligan on Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:04 pm

we're back! :)
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:07 pm

Gilligan wrote:we're back! :)


Woo Hoo!!!!!

D13
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:50 am

So far I have played 2 speed games and everything seems to be working as intended. I have to say that in 2 player the bonus gets crazy rather fast. I think I like it but if you have one bad round of dice that could mean the end for you.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby Gilligan on Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:06 pm

2013-12-31 00:07:21 - bigWham: typo in bottom left: "...you Kingdom..."
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:13 pm

Gilligan wrote:2013-12-31 00:07:21 - bigWham: typo in bottom left: "...you Kingdom..."


I will compile a list for the next week or so and do a new image next week sometime (hopefully that's the only one).

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - XML Update 12/15

Postby VicFontaine on Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:24 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
Gilligan wrote:2013-12-31 00:07:21 - bigWham: typo in bottom left: "...you Kingdom..."


I will compile a list for the next week or so and do a new image next week sometime (hopefully that's the only one).

=D13=


Yeah, the typos are an obvious issue. I don't know how you can clear up the instructions a bit, but I had to read the beta map topic to begin to grasp this map. Maybe I'm the only one, I dunno. Generally, I'm having a hard time understanding the map because the English isn't bad, but it's not great. Sorry :(
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - We're Back!

Postby drunkmonkey on Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:43 pm

Game 13808887

My opponent attacked S2 from T2, even though he had no other territories that bordered Blood Towers. Am I misunderstanding the rule, or is that a bug?

Edit: I think it's just poor wording. I read "control [...] to unlock its impassible borders" as "its [Blood Towers'] borders are impassible, unless you control [...] to unlock them".
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - We're Back!

Postby Gilligan on Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:51 pm

drunkmonkey wrote:Game 13808887

My opponent attacked S2 from T2, even though he had no other territories that bordered Blood Towers. Am I misunderstanding the rule, or is that a bug?

Edit: I think it's just poor wording. I read "control [...] to unlock its impassible borders" as "its [Blood Towers'] borders are impassible, unless you control [...] to unlock them".


"its" refers to Forbidden Lands.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - We're Back!

Postby drunkmonkey on Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:53 pm

Gilligan wrote:
drunkmonkey wrote:Game 13808887

My opponent attacked S2 from T2, even though he had no other territories that bordered Blood Towers. Am I misunderstanding the rule, or is that a bug?

Edit: I think it's just poor wording. I read "control [...] to unlock its impassible borders" as "its [Blood Towers'] borders are impassible, unless you control [...] to unlock them".


"its" refers to Forbidden Lands.


Oops. Thanks.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - We're Back!

Postby jigger1986 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:01 pm

glad this map is finallty back, a couple questions?

Is there no more +2 auto drop on kingdoms anymore?
Why was this taken away?
Why do we not start with two kingdoms in 1v1 anymore?
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - We're Back!

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:17 pm

jigger1986 wrote:glad this map is finallty back, a couple questions?

Me too =)

jigger1986 wrote:Is there no more +2 auto drop on kingdoms anymore?

It was removed.

jigger1986 wrote:Why was this taken away?

Because you are now granted a minimum bonus of +3 like most other CC maps that was not there previously. Net gain +1 and its all deployable where you need it.

jigger1986 wrote:Why do we not start with two kingdoms in 1v1 anymore?

The map grants a bonus ratio for favored territories of 1 for 1 (100% return) and that doubles to 2 for 1 when you control all 4. When you have 2 kingdoms that bonus can quickly get out of hand with tons of double dipping where some territories were both favored for one and adjacent to favored for the other. It was so difficult to keep track of and not even remotely fair to every combo. With the added change of +3 minimum and +1/3 of every basic land the bonuses were already large enough. There were also some odd xml concerns with multiple kingdoms and how they interacted with the new way of kingdoms assaulting their favored territories that would have required some complicated coding as well. This way it fits with the story about each kingdom being in this for themselves. The best way to simulate the old way is to play 2v2 polymorphic games.

Hope that answers your questions.

=D13=
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - We're Back!

Postby jigger1986 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:34 pm

Thanks Dolomite,

I preferred the old (unbalanced) map, but Im still going to be a fan of this map...
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