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Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:16 pm
by Seamus76
A map like this, you know, some times you just want to roll the dice, and not think about all the other stuff. Ahh, but there is other stuff...deciding when to attack, how much to attack, when to stop, etc. are all strategies. To say there is no strategy or this is just neutral bashing is like saying Treasures of Galapagos is the same way, which we all know it is not.

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:12 am
by LLLUUUKKKEEE
Seamus76 wrote:A map like this, you know, some times you just want to roll the dice, and not think about all the other stuff. Ahh, but there is other stuff...deciding when to attack, how much to attack, when to stop, etc. are all strategies. To say there is no strategy or this is just neutral bashing is like saying Treasures of Galapagos is the same way, which we all know it is not.

I agree totally, plenty of maps have killer nuetrals and people like them.
We do need a 1v1 map, i.e. a race. I understand your theme based on only 1 route to travel and it will work. Yes it will involve strategy as to say stack on Promontory Points or attack.

And I think auto deploy on sacremto and Omaha would be great.
I can see this being a great advantage to players who dont miss ther turn (purpose or not).

And i am sick of the complicated maps( waterloo, stalingrad etc). This is a quick fire fun map.

Well done cairnswk......................... again!

Re: Race to Promontory Point [11.12.12] V1 - Draft

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:29 am
by Oneyed
cairnswk wrote:random deployment? i guess you mean the 3 troops deployed at beginning of your turn...at bottom of map...maximum deploy is +1, not +3....so you can only deploy +1.


no. I mean if you get +2 for Sacramento - Reno, or if each station gets +2 auto.

I agree that all maps are based on lucky. yes also strategy is important on some maps, but it is still lucky for example if you can not beat 3 troops with 11...

the bonus structure is unbalanced, I think. because this is 1v1 game and because strategy here has low role add to each player the same (or very similar) position.

Sacramento-Reno: 7 regions to beat, 21 neutrals. then you get +16 units.
Omaha-Chayenne: 8 regions to beat, 19 neutrals. here you get +9 units.

the big difference, I think.

Oneyed

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:41 am
by koontz1973
Alright cairns, make sure you send a PM to nobodies for 1v1 approval then. Seems like a few want this in the stable of maps.

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:50 am
by Funkyterrance
If this was just another rail map I would totally agree that it would be a waste of energy but yeah this one looks very interesting/unique to me. Besides, there's this weird psychological thing about attacking neuts that makes you sometimes abandon your reason since they aren't actual players. It takes composure to fight neuts!

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:37 am
by codierose
not sure they had spies in them days could it be raiding Indians or train robbers just thoughts

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:50 am
by cairnswk
codierose wrote:not sure they had spies in them days could it be raiding Indians or train robbers just thoughts


Because of the nature of the way money was given to the companies building the railroad, they were sometimes known to sabotage each other's railroads to claim that land as their own.
- Perkins, J. R. (2003). "CENTRAL PACIFIC–UNION PACIFIC RACE". Encyclopedia.com. Retrieved 2010-04-24 for inclusion in Wikipedia

From the beginning, then, the building of the transcontinental railroad was set up in terms of a competition between the two companies...

Dangers and Difficulties

After General Grenville Dodge, a hero of the Union Army, took control as chief engineer, the Union Pacific finally began to move westward in May 1866. The company suffered bloody attacks on its workers by Native Americans--including members of the Sioux, Arapaho and Cheyenne tribes--who were understandably threatened by the progress of the white man and his "iron horse" across their native lands. Still, the Union Pacific moved relatively quickly across the plains, compared to the slow progress of their rival company through the Sierra. Ramshackle settlements popped up wherever the railroad went, turning into hotbeds of drinking, gambling, prostitution and violence and producing the enduring mythology of the "Wild West."

In 1865, after struggling with retaining workers due to the difficulty of the labor, Charles Crocker (who was in charge of construction for the Central Pacific) began hiring Chinese laborers. By that time, some 50,000 Chinese immigrants were living on the West Coast, many having arrived during the Gold Rush. This was controversial at the time, as the Chinese were considered an inferior race due to pervasive racism. The Chinese laborers proved to be tireless workers, and Crocker hired more of them; some 14,000 were toiling under brutal working conditions in the Sierra Nevada by early 1867. (By contrast, the work force of the Union Pacific was mainly Irish immigrants and Civil War veterans.) To blast through the mountains, the Central Pacific built huge wooden trestles on the western slopes and used gunpowder and nitroglycerine to blast tunnels through the granite.

http://www.history.com/topics/transcontinental-railroad

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:00 am
by nolefan5311
Just a quick note cairns, the actual junction of the two railroads was called Promontory Summit.

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:10 am
by cairnswk
nolefan5311 wrote:Just a quick note cairns, the actual junction of the two railroads was called Promontory Summit.

yes i noticed, i'll change that :)

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:10 pm
by cairnswk
Seamus76 wrote:A map like this, you know, some times you just want to roll the dice, and not think about all the other stuff. Ahh, but there is other stuff...deciding when to attack, how much to attack, when to stop, etc. are all strategies. To say there is no strategy or this is just neutral bashing is like saying Treasures of Galapagos is the same way, which we all know it is not.

Yes, there's a couple of maps where neutral bashing is required, and i agree, there is some strategy involved.

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:12 pm
by cairnswk
LLLUUUKKKEEE wrote:...
And I think auto deploy on sacremto and Omaha would be great.

Considered LLLUUUKKKEEE!


And i am sick of the complicated maps( waterloo, stalingrad etc). This is a quick fire fun map.
Well done cairnswk......................... again!

Ah LLLUUUKKKEEE, you've mentioned my maps there OUCH!. but you are right, a little change-up will be good. :)

Re: Race to Promontory Point [11.12.12] V1 - Draft

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:15 pm
by cairnswk
Oneyed wrote:
cairnswk wrote:random deployment? i guess you mean the 3 troops deployed at beginning of your turn...at bottom of map...maximum deploy is +1, not +3....so you can only deploy +1.


no. I mean if you get +2 for Sacramento - Reno, or if each station gets +2 auto.

OK I understand. well at present those are on the map, but that will prob change in gameplay

I agree that all maps are based on lucky. yes also strategy is important on some maps, but it is still lucky for example if you can not beat 3 troops with 11...

you mean it is unlucky Oneyed. i had that happen quite a few times.

the bonus structure is unbalanced, I think. because this is 1v1 game and because strategy here has low role add to each player the same (or very similar) position.
Sacramento-Reno: 7 regions to beat, 21 neutrals. then you get +16 units.
Omaha-Chayenne: 8 regions to beat, 19 neutrals. here you get +9 units.
the big difference, I think.
Oneyed

as stated, that will change. :)

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:16 pm
by cairnswk
koontz1973 wrote:Alright cairns, make sure you send a PM to nobodies for 1v1 approval then. Seems like a few want this in the stable of maps.

thank-you koontz.

Re: Race to Promontory Point [12.12.12] V2 - With Spies

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:17 pm
by cairnswk
Funkyterrance wrote:If this was just another rail map I would totally agree that it would be a waste of energy but yeah this one looks very interesting/unique to me. Besides, there's this weird psychological thing about attacking neuts that makes you sometimes abandon your reason since they aren't actual players. It takes composure to fight neuts!

Yes, and i have found that itr usually takes a lot more troops to conqeur them ;)

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:06 pm
by cairnswk
Version 3....adding a few options for Indian attacks.

Image

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:09 pm
by Oneyed
you could write names of 15 Tunels and Newcastle as other stations (like stations under indian attacks).
I can not see what these "unluckies" do? losing units?

Oneyed

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:39 pm
by isaiah40
To expand on the idea of having four spikes, here's some good info:
On May 10, in anticipation of the ceremony, Union Pacific No. 119 and Central Pacific No. 60 (better known as the Jupiter) locomotives were drawn up face-to-face on Promontory Summit. It is unknown how many people attended the event; estimates run from as low as 500 to as many as 3,000; government and railroad officials and track workers were present to witness the event.[3]

Before the last spike was driven, three other commemorative spikes, presented on behalf of the other three members of the Central Pacific's Big Four who did not attend the ceremony, had been driven in the pre-bored laurel tie:

- a second, lower-quality gold spike, supplied by the San Francisco News Letter was made of $200 worth of gold and inscribed: With this spike the San Francisco News Letter offers its homage to the great work which has joined the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
- a silver spike, supplied by the State of Nevada; forged, rather than cast, of 25 troy ounces (780 g) of unpolished silver.
- a blended iron, silver and gold spike, supplied by the Arizona Territory, engraved: Ribbed with iron clad in silver and crowned with gold Arizona presents her offering to the enterprise that has banded a continent and dictated a pathway to commerce. (Source: Deseret Morning News, Salt Lake City, April 24, 2007)

The golden spike was made of 17.6-karat (73%) copper-alloyed gold, and weighed 14.03 troy ounces (436 g). It was dropped into a pre-drilled hole in the laurel ceremonial last tie, and gently tapped into place with a silver ceremonial spike maul. The spike was engraved on all four sides:

The Pacific Railroad ground broken January 8, 1863, and completed May 8, 1869.
Directors of the C. P. R. R. of Cal. Hon. Leland Stanford. C. P. Huntington. E. B. Crocker. Mark Hopkins. A. P. Stanford. E. H. Miller Jr.
Officers. Hon. Leland Stanford. Presdt. C. P. Huntington Vice Presdt. E. B. Crocker. Atty. Mark Hopkins. Tresr. Chas Crocker Gen. Supdt. E. H. Miller Jr. Secty. S. S. Montague. Chief Engr.
May God continue the unity of our Country, as this Railroad unites the two great Oceans of the world. Presented by David Hewes San Francisco.[3]

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:22 pm
by cairnswk
Oneyed wrote:you could write names of 15 Tunels and Newcastle as other stations (like stations under indian attacks).
I can not see what these "unluckies" do? losing units?

Oneyed

Bombarded by your opponent Oneyed....don't you follow what is written in the top legend with regards to bridges and Indian attacks?
OR is that not clear for you?

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:26 pm
by cairnswk
isaiah40 wrote:To expand on the idea of having four spikes, here's some good info:
...

Isaiah40...so do you propose that there should be four spikes instead of one...?
and should they all be the goal, or just two of each..?
or the gold spike plus two of the other three..?
please tell me what you are thinking....you will lessen the amount of roundabouts we have to go through to get to the end :idea: :)

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:52 pm
by Jippd
what about spikes in the middle...it is a one way attack from each end...left or right...and once on the spikes the spikes can only attack other spikes in terms of troops that have been advanced. Just throwing that possibility out there.

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:06 am
by isaiah40
cairnswk wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:To expand on the idea of having four spikes, here's some good info:
...

Isaiah40...so do you propose that there should be four spikes instead of one...?
and should they all be the goal, or just two of each..?
or the gold spike plus two of the other three..?
please tell me what you are thinking....you will lessen the amount of roundabouts we have to go through to get to the end :idea: :)

Yes I propose having 4 spikes and having them to be the goal/winning condition. Just my $0.02 worth on a winning condition.

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:18 am
by cairnswk
isaiah40 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:To expand on the idea of having four spikes, here's some good info:
...

Isaiah40...so do you propose that there should be four spikes instead of one...?
and should they all be the goal, or just two of each..?
or the gold spike plus two of the other three..?
please tell me what you are thinking....you will lessen the amount of roundabouts we have to go through to get to the end :idea: :)

Yes I propose having 4 spikes and having them to be the goal/winning condition. Just my $0.02 worth on a winning condition.


Jippd wrote:what about spikes in the middle...it is a one way attack from each end...left or right...and once on the spikes the spikes can only attack other spikes in terms of troops that have been advanced. Just throwing that possibility out there.


OK, isaiah40, thanks for that explanation, i think it very worthwhile. :)
Having 4 spikes (we already have one) means we would have to remove four other stations to bring the number back down to 36, i.e. 4 spikes plus 16 stations per line.
I beleive this is feasible for goldne number play- 36 terts.
What do you think about Jippd's idea for each spike being able to attack the other one....which when you think about it, ties in with the stations in other rail maps even though there is only one on this map.
While i created this simple concept i am open to suggestions that will help improve the gameplay, as long as it doesn't become too complicated. ;)

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:35 am
by isaiah40
cairnswk wrote:OK, isaiah40, thanks for that explanation, i think it very worthwhile. :)
Having 4 spikes (we already have one) means we would have to remove four other stations to bring the number back down to 36, i.e. 4 spikes plus 16 stations per line.
I beleive this is feasible for goldne number play- 36 terts.
What do you think about Jippd's idea for each spike being able to attack the other one....which when you think about it, ties in with the stations in other rail maps even though there is only one on this map.
While i created this simple concept i am open to suggestions that will help improve the gameplay, as long as it doesn't become too complicated. ;)

Well since this is a pending 1v1 map, we won't have to worry about the golden numbers. I think that if you have the 4 spikes as a winning condition IMHO, I'd have each RR attack the blended iron spike first, the silver spike, the first lower quality spike and then the golden spike. With this being the winning condition to simulate the completion of the RR. And really if you do this, any more and it will be way to complicated.

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:40 am
by cairnswk
isaiah40 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:OK, isaiah40, thanks for that explanation, i think it very worthwhile. :)
Having 4 spikes (we already have one) means we would have to remove four other stations to bring the number back down to 36, i.e. 4 spikes plus 16 stations per line.
I beleive this is feasible for goldne number play- 36 terts.
What do you think about Jippd's idea for each spike being able to attack the other one....which when you think about it, ties in with the stations in other rail maps even though there is only one on this map.
While i created this simple concept i am open to suggestions that will help improve the gameplay, as long as it doesn't become too complicated. ;)

Well since this is a pending 1v1 map, we won't have to worry about the golden numbers. I think that if you have the 4 spikes as a winning condition IMHO, I'd have each RR attack the blended iron spike first, the silver spike, the first lower quality spike and then the golden spike. With this being the winning condition to simulate the completion of the RR. And really if you do this, any more and it will be way to complicated.

But would the spikes be able to attack each other...that's the question pending??

Re: Race to Promontory Summit [13.12.12] V3 - With Indians

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:43 am
by isaiah40
I'll leave that to you. It might be good if they do, but either way I'd play this! :D :P