Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

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Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Dukasaur on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:55 am

HardAttack wrote:players with no land territories left will be eleminated ...
how is this going to work in terminator games ?
It goes like this: Game 13571796 :D

2ndly, yes amazing map mate, congrats. =D>
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Gallipoli :: first player starting points

Postby delibekir on Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:40 am

Very nice map, thanks to cairnswk and all contributors :)

A question:
I'm playing 3 games on this map (one is a team game), what I have seen is I am the first player in all three games and I got the starting regions [BS Majestic, L01, Kum Kale, MS3] in all three of the games. Is this coincidence or does the first player always get this group?
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Re: Gallipoli :: first player starting points

Postby Gilligan on Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:40 am

delibekir wrote:Very nice map, thanks to cairnswk and all contributors :)

A question:
I'm playing 3 games on this map (one is a team game), what I have seen is I am the first player in all three games and I got the starting regions [BS Majestic, L01, Kum Kale, MS3] in all three of the games. Is this coincidence or does the first player always get this group?


Well, the first player doesn't always get those starting regions. But if you start with Majestic, you'll always get L01, Kum Kale and MS3. Any player can get that start.
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Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby dan the general on Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:09 pm

when can we play?
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Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:11 pm

dan the general wrote:when can we play?

you can play now, the map has been in beta for some time now and there are near 700 completed games :)
kinks have been ironed out...as far as i am concerned anyways.
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby delibekir on Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:56 am

I have played several games with this map and I feel like Kum Kale bombarder is too strong to begin the game with. Whenever a team has Kum Kale initially, they easily secure the south west of the map and usually win. More importantly, opponent's L ships in south-west can be bombarded which cuts their income (especially in non-escalating games).

What do you think?
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:51 am

delibekir wrote:I have played several games with this map and I feel like Kum Kale bombarder is too strong to begin the game with. Whenever a team has Kum Kale initially, they easily secure the south west of the map and usually win. More importantly, opponent's L ships in south-west can be bombarded which cuts their income (especially in non-escalating games).

What do you think?

I've been thinking about this for a while.

Earlier on some people thought that Gendarmerie was overpowered. I disagree, and with careful husbanding of the troops on the battleship, even if someone starts with Gendarmerie and gets a lucky bunch of bombardments, the advantage can be overcome.

Kum Kale is different, because most of the SW landing boats have no battleship support. Sometimes a lucky start that includes Kum Kale is difficult to break, indeed. I'm wondering if L2, 3, 4, and 5 could start with 1 troop more? Not L1, because it has battleship support, and not L6 because it would just make it easy to take Kum Kale and pass the problem to someone else.

Anyway, it's not a huge thing, but maybe a tiny tweak is possible.
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:03 pm

delibekir wrote:I have played several games with this map and I feel like Kum Kale bombarder is too strong to begin the game with. Whenever a team has Kum Kale initially, they easily secure the south west of the map and usually win. More importantly, opponent's L ships in south-west can be bombarded which cuts their income (especially in non-escalating games).

What do you think?


Thanks for popping in.
I think that the massive five games you've played or are in progress with are not enough sample population to draw a conclusion such as "usually win" from.
I've only played 7 games myself, and have found this not to be the case i.e. Kum Kale being too strong.
If you'd play many more and still have that inference, i'd be more prepared to listen.
Also, please offer your solution to balance what you perceive as an issue i.e should KK Beach be bombardable from a Battleshhip.
You'll see that this is quite reasonable request since Dukasaur has 47 of these maps played or in progress.
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:25 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
delibekir wrote:I have played several games with this map and I feel like Kum Kale bombarder is too strong to begin the game with. Whenever a team has Kum Kale initially, they easily secure the south west of the map and usually win. More importantly, opponent's L ships in south-west can be bombarded which cuts their income (especially in non-escalating games).

What do you think?

I've been thinking about this for a while.

Earlier on some people thought that Gendarmerie was overpowered. I disagree, and with careful husbanding of the troops on the battleship, even if someone starts with Gendarmerie and gets a lucky bunch of bombardments, the advantage can be overcome.

Kum Kale is different, because most of the SW landing boats have no battleship support. Sometimes a lucky start that includes Kum Kale is difficult to break, indeed. I'm wondering if L2, 3, 4, and 5 could start with 1 troop more? Not L1, because it has battleship support, and not L6 because it would just make it easy to take Kum Kale and pass the problem to someone else.

Anyway, it's not a huge thing, but maybe a tiny tweak is possible.


Appreciate your request for that tweak, Dukasaur.
I'd like to hear from others though if they think the same. :)
Also, i must point out, that in the real battle, a lot of the fighting in that Cape Helles region was historically twarted and didn't last long, the objectives of capturing the forts was never reached. In some ways, and in some games that can reflect the difficulty of that fighting.
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Armandolas on Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:13 pm

i dont think kum kale is overpowered, ive been able to hold it and and ive been able to break it. That depends on what your priorities are.
I do believe that the nothern entrance to the southern regions should be balanced like the ones near kum kale.
I also wished that bs majestic would have a ship closer to it instead of a 4 vs 3+1 ships, but it seems that is impossible due to historical reasons
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:26 pm

Armandolas wrote:...
I also wished that bs majestic would have a ship closer to it instead of a 4 vs 3+1 ships, but it seems that is impossible due to historical reasons

please explain this better Armandolas !
I don't understand what you mean
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Armandolas on Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:45 pm

for ex: if u are playing dubs or quads the game will split 8 ships between the players.
That will mean that BS majestic will be "isolated" from the other ships, making a 104 vs 78 army in the north.
If played properly, it will be very hard for the team who holds majestic to break other team dominance in the north.
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby PereiroSaus on Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:43 am

cairnswk wrote:I think that the massive five games you've played...


I'm not sure whether these kind of responses really support getting more feedback... I mean, you told me too play 20 more games and then come back with suggestions. By that time the map should have been out of beta.... Though, here I am, and it's still beta ;)

I do agree with the remarks on Kum Kale. It is an overpowered position. It can be taken down, but if you own it and either own Lo6 too or are starting the game, only dice failure will prevent you from taking the south.
It's a disbalance which brings in the 'lottery factor", which in my opinion is a pity for a beautiful map like this. And the bigger the lottery-factor, eventually the lesser the map will be used.
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Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Oneyed on Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:59 am

look at this game http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=13749693, please.
regions are realy bad divided, some players hold Batteries or Forts from start.

Oneyed
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Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:13 am

Oneyed wrote:look at this game http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=13749693, please.
regions are realy bad divided, some players hold Batteries or Forts from start.

Oneyed

Sure, some people hold batteries from the start. But other people hold other advantages. Every single player there could say something good about their position.
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Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Oneyed on Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:19 am

Dukasaur wrote:
Oneyed wrote:look at this game http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=13749693, please.
regions are realy bad divided, some players hold Batteries or Forts from start.

Oneyed

Sure, some people hold batteries from the start. But other people hold other advantages. Every single player there could say something good about their position.


could you find just one advantage for me?

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Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:40 am

Oneyed wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
Oneyed wrote:look at this game http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=13749693, please.
regions are realy bad divided, some players hold Batteries or Forts from start.

Oneyed

Sure, some people hold batteries from the start. But other people hold other advantages. Every single player there could say something good about their position.


could you find just one advantage for me?

Oneyed

If I wasn't your opponent, I could.

Since it's an active game and I'm one of your opponents, any advice I could give you would probably be construed as secret diplomacy. In fact, I'm already regretting having made the first post, because even that could be construed as against the rules.

After the game, we'll talk about it. For now, nothing.
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Armandolas on Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:15 am

maybe lower halil-eli ,dumbrek , chanak kale,madios and in tepe from 6 to 4 would be a nice addition either to solve kum kale prob, and get more action in the south regions
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Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby ignatious on Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:46 pm

Really been enjoying this map. When you get cards, "Nibruseni Point" is spelled "Nubresi Point" on the card.
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Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Nola_Lifer on Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:10 pm

Last post a month ago. Time to stamp this one.
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:45 am

Nola_Lifer wrote:Last post a month ago. Time to stamp this one.

I was just coming here to say that I'm convinced now that this change should be made, or at least tried out.

Dukasaur wrote:
Earlier on some people thought that Gendarmerie was overpowered. I disagree, and with careful husbanding of the troops on the battleship, even if someone starts with Gendarmerie and gets a lucky bunch of bombardments, the advantage can be overcome.

Kum Kale is different, because most of the SW landing boats have no battleship support. Sometimes a lucky start that includes Kum Kale is difficult to break, indeed. I'm wondering if L2, 3, 4, and 5 could start with 1 troop more? Not L1, because it has battleship support, and not L6 because it would just make it easy to take Kum Kale and pass the problem to someone else.
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Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby ooge on Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:45 am

I am posting here for the march challenge. getting the shore battery in the north on the drop is to much of an advantage.This battery unlike some of the other ones can not be bombed by a battleship. What I like about this map is I played a tripps trench escalating game that went the round limit.We went back and forth in the game without getting a clear advantage over each other.This made me think of the actual Gallipoli battle.
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby betiko on Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:01 am

this is becoming one of my favorite maps. I just want to know if it's possible to balance out the initial bombardable territories.
I guess this has been discussed a lot before, but in quads you can end up eliminated on the first turn, and in dubs i don't think it's fair when a team can bomb 3 and the other only 1.
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby jonofperu on Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:15 pm

Posting for March Challenge. I've played a couple times now. It's a great map! I like all the different angles and starting spots. Lots of potential in lines for bombardment, invasion, etc.
Unfortunately the potential is dulled for me somewhat by first turn advantage. It's a common problem and very hard to mitigate, but on this map a good drop and first turn could completely cripple an opponent. If you get a jump on the non-bombardable Coastal Batteries you reduce the opponent's deploy before he gets any. Since there's no way to take back some of the landing ships it can be a permanent handicap.
Maybe change starting spots so nobody can bombard landing ships without fighting through some neutrals?
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Re: Re: WWI: Gallipoli [21.9.13] V38 (p22) - BETA

Postby jdw35 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:32 pm

Posting for the march challenge. I like the complexity of the bombards on this map, adds to the gameplay. I do not like how first turn has an advantage (at least i feel like it does) with certain settings.
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