The Conquer 500

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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:47 pm

lets leave the hats as they are for now... f someone reports a problem with them we can revisit it

=D=
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby ender516 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:40 am

If the XML scribe has time, a little work on pluralization might be in order. "A Pit Tires"?
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby DaveS_WI on Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:04 pm

Is there a way to conquer a pit crew?
The only way I am seeing this is to get to winner's circle and bombard each pit location but you can not take over another team.
Thanks great map.
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby Gilligan on Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:07 pm

DaveS_WI wrote:Is there a way to conquer a pit crew?
The only way I am seeing this is to get to winner's circle and bombard each pit location but you can not take over another team.
Thanks great map.


You can only touch the pit crew from a Crew.
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby jricart on Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:52 am

For me, this map give a lot of advantage to the guy starting first. There should be a way to avoid this.

JRT
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:17 pm

DaveS_WI wrote:Is there a way to conquer a pit crew?
The only way I am seeing this is to get to winner's circle and bombard each pit location but you can not take over another team.
Thanks great map.


You can only bombard the crew out of the race from the winners circle.

jricart wrote:For me, this map give a lot of advantage to the guy starting first. There should be a way to avoid this.
JRT


Agreed the upcoming XML update will limit the crews to autodeploy 2 and increase car conditions to 2 neutral. Also will limit starting positions (crews) a bit more especially useful in 2 player games.

=D=
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby DaveS_WI on Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:08 pm

Gilligan wrote:
DaveS_WI wrote:Is there a way to conquer a pit crew?
The only way I am seeing this is to get to winner's circle and bombard each pit location but you can not take over another team.
Thanks great map.


You can only touch the pit crew from a Crew.


Can you assault another crew? (Crew 1 - 8 at the top of the map)

The only attack I am seeing on the "Crew 1-8" are bombards from "Winners Circle."

Am I missing something?
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby Swifte on Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:14 pm

DaveS_WI wrote:
Gilligan wrote:
DaveS_WI wrote:Is there a way to conquer a pit crew?
The only way I am seeing this is to get to winner's circle and bombard each pit location but you can not take over another team.
Thanks great map.


You can only touch the pit crew from a Crew.


Can you assault another crew? (Crew 1 - 8 at the top of the map)

The only attack I am seeing on the "Crew 1-8" are bombards from "Winners Circle."

Am I missing something?


No not missing anything. They can only be bombarded from Winners circle - dolomite answered your question above :)

dolomite13 wrote:
DaveS_WI wrote:Is there a way to conquer a pit crew?
The only way I am seeing this is to get to winner's circle and bombard each pit location but you can not take over another team.
Thanks great map.


You can only bombard the crew out of the race from the winners circle.
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:58 pm

So if your eliminated from the crew position but not the track you can win by conquering the track. However if you are eliminated from the track and your grew gets nuked or bombarded from the winners circle you have no way back into the race.

I am wondering if there should be a conditional border on the pit equipment that allows you to assault the pit row location if you control one of each pit equipment (jack, tools, engine, tires, fuel) this would let someone controlling the pits to get back into the race in spite of no crew map position...

Or maybe w make it "hold 3 of the same pit equipment" and those 3 can assault the pit row.... that way we have hold horizontally (tool & jack = +2, fuel & tires & engine = +3) and vertically 3 x Fuel = all of your furl can assault the pit row icon.

In the end your crew value is just "neutral" you technically have a crew they are just not effective the same way a car is not out of the race when all conditions are "neutral" it is just not as good of a car (providing no bonus).

Thoughts...

=D=
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:07 pm

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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby waauw on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:52 pm

ehm, I have a question. in my Game 12600847 I am holding a pit jack but no pit tool, yet I do get a +2 each turn for holding both pit jack and pit tool. Is this a bug or am I reading this wrong?(look at round 2-9)
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:05 pm

waauw wrote:ehm, I have a question. in my Game 12600847 I am holding a pit jack but no pit tool, yet I do get a +2 each turn for holding both pit jack and pit tool. Is this a bug or am I reading this wrong?(look at round 2-9)


It's a bug. Will be fixed in the the above XML update.

=D=
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:35 pm

Every game I am currently playing is so unbalanced with each pit item providing a bonus rather than the collecting of sets... and people aren't focusing on the track enough.

I wonder if car conditions should be allowed to assault their crew so if a nuclear game wipes you off your crew or someone does that from the winners circle but you had some forces on your car conditions you could retake that crew. That would be a really simple fix for getting wiped out of the crew which lets you back in the race if you loose all your track positions.

Also ... should car conditions not decay? ... seems like people don't reinforce them because its a guaranteed loss of troops every turn or they do reinforce them and the gain isn't worth the troops spent.

=D=
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby Gilligan on Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:16 pm

is the +40 for track supposed to override the individual +2s? Just thought of that cause I got it in a game of mine.
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:46 pm

Gilligan wrote:is the +40 for track supposed to override the individual +2s? Just thought of that cause I got it in a game of mine.


Are you saying that it did override it? so you got +40 from the track or that it didn't override and if you had the whole track you got +60?

The question is how much is the right bonus for the track overall. If it's overriding then I will need to make a note of it in the graphic. If it's not then we might want to look at the winners circle and bump it up a bit or drop that bonus to +20.

=D=
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby Gilligan on Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:52 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
Gilligan wrote:is the +40 for track supposed to override the individual +2s? Just thought of that cause I got it in a game of mine.


Are you saying that it did override it? so you got +40 from the track or that it didn't override and if you had the whole track you got +60?

The question is how much is the right bonus for the track overall. If it's overriding then I will need to make a note of it in the graphic. If it's not then we might want to look at the winners circle and bump it up a bit or drop that bonus to +20.

=D=


Currently it's +40 for the track, WITH +2x10 track segments = +60

EDIT Wait, never mind. I jumped the gun here. I forgot the +40 was for a single territory on each segment, not for the WHOLE thing.

My bad.
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:59 pm

Yea the legend indicates +2 for all 3 AND +40 for one in each ... so if you had the whole track you have +60

Holding one whole car plus the entire pit should yield +20 ... which right now the whole pit is worth +39 instead of +15 (a bit too much)... this is fixed in the new XML right?

The bonus breakdown ...

- Pit Crew +3 auto
- Car Conditions +1 each or Whole Car +5
- Pit Equipment 1 jack and 1 tools +2 for each set (max +6)
- Pit Equipment 1 fuel and 1 tires 1 engine +3 for each set (max +9)
- All three track locations in a segment +2 (total +20)
- One location in each of the 10 segments +40

If you hold all of that +80 (autodeploy 3)

=D=
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby waauw on Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:25 am

dolomite13 wrote:Every game I am currently playing is so unbalanced with each pit item providing a bonus rather than the collecting of sets... and people aren't focusing on the track enough.

I wonder if car conditions should be allowed to assault their crew so if a nuclear game wipes you off your crew or someone does that from the winners circle but you had some forces on your car conditions you could retake that crew. That would be a really simple fix for getting wiped out of the crew which lets you back in the race if you loose all your track positions.

Also ... should car conditions not decay? ... seems like people don't reinforce them because its a guaranteed loss of troops every turn or they do reinforce them and the gain isn't worth the troops spent.

=D=


yah I have seen the exact same thing happen. People just dont concentrate on the track enough and if you play games with 8 players it is REALLY EASY to get wiped of the track and once that happens then you're pretty much screwed as in my experience people do tend to wanna eliminate the crews quite fast.

And I agree with dolomite. Best solution is a loopback where people can somehow conquer back the crews.

Check this game out(fyi the leftover questionmarks are all blue's, so 3 players are stuck not being able to do anything anymore)(Game 12554384):

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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:42 pm

dolomite13 wrote:Every game I am currently playing is so unbalanced with each pit item providing a bonus rather than the collecting of sets... and people aren't focusing on the track enough.

I wonder if car conditions should be allowed to assault their crew so if a nuclear game wipes you off your crew or someone does that from the winners circle but you had some forces on your car conditions you could retake that crew. That would be a really simple fix for getting wiped out of the crew which lets you back in the race if you loose all your track positions.

Also ... should car conditions not decay? ... seems like people don't reinforce them because its a guaranteed loss of troops every turn or they do reinforce them and the gain isn't worth the troops spent.
=D=


Any thoughts anyone?

=D=
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby ender516 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:11 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
dolomite13 wrote:Every game I am currently playing is so unbalanced with each pit item providing a bonus rather than the collecting of sets... and people aren't focusing on the track enough.

I wonder if car conditions should be allowed to assault their crew so if a nuclear game wipes you off your crew or someone does that from the winners circle but you had some forces on your car conditions you could retake that crew. That would be a really simple fix for getting wiped out of the crew which lets you back in the race if you loose all your track positions.

Also ... should car conditions not decay? ... seems like people don't reinforce them because its a guaranteed loss of troops every turn or they do reinforce them and the gain isn't worth the troops spent.
=D=


Any thoughts anyone?

=D=

Well the first problem you mention should be mitigated once the XML is doing the "n This plus N That plus N TheOther" bonuses properly, right?

Getting back into a nukes game gone bad seems like a good idea, if otherwise you are stuck in a game where you are just waiting to be eliminated. Does letting conditions assault crew all the time have any drawbacks? Should this be a conditional border, active only if you have been squeezed out?
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:50 pm

The the last real problem to solve as I see it is have a nuke game gone bad or someone using the winners circle to clean out the pit crews effectively making the game seriously no fun to play. As a way to mitigate this we could make these two changes.

1) Crews are adjacent to (fuel, tires, engine) of their corresponding car (meaning they can attack back and forth between the car conditions and their crew).

2) Provided you control at least one of these four territories (fuel or tires or engine of your car) or (your pit crew) then the winners circle is adjacent to the ones you control.

And one final change would stop forces from getting stuck in the pit equipment.

3) If you control all three of the same of any of the 5 pit equipment all 3 of those territories may assault the pit row.

These are fairly radical ideas using conditional borders (which didn't exist when I started development on this map)

=D=
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby thehippo8 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:00 pm

I yawn every time I look at those sleepy pit Tires. Maybe its from putting all the Tyres on the cars?
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:32 am

thehippo8 wrote:I yawn every time I look at those sleepy pit Tires. Maybe its from putting all the Tyres on the cars?


Sorry I'm from the North America :roll:

Tire vs. tyre

Tire and tyre both mean a covering for a wheel, usually made of rubber. Tire is the preferred spelling in the U.S. and Canada. Tyre is preferred in most varieties of English outside North America. But all varieties of English use tire in the sense to grow weary.

http://grammarist.com/spelling/tire-tyre/
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby waauw on Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:14 pm

dolomite13 wrote:The the last real problem to solve as I see it is have a nuke game gone bad or someone using the winners circle to clean out the pit crews effectively making the game seriously no fun to play. As a way to mitigate this we could make these two changes.

1) Crews are adjacent to (fuel, tires, engine) of their corresponding car (meaning they can attack back and forth between the car conditions and their crew).

2) Provided you control at least one of these four territories (fuel or tires or engine of your car) or (your pit crew) then the winners circle is adjacent to the ones you control.

And one final change would stop forces from getting stuck in the pit equipment.

3) If you control all three of the same of any of the 5 pit equipment all 3 of those territories may assault the pit row.

These are fairly radical ideas using conditional borders (which didn't exist when I started development on this map)

=D=


I like the ideas except for the second one. I liked it that crews couldnt touch the winners circle. Making it so it can be attacked from anywhere will make you too vulnerable imo. The moment someone breaks down the winners circle, I fear everybody will start using it from all directions. I'd prefer it if the pit row was 10 neutrals in stead of 20 then. This way people who get kicked off the track very fast can still get back in the game. 20 seems too high for that.
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Re: The Conquer 500 [D GR GP XML Beta]

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:10 pm

waauw wrote:
dolomite13 wrote:The the last real problem to solve as I see it is have a nuke game gone bad or someone using the winners circle to clean out the pit crews effectively making the game seriously no fun to play. As a way to mitigate this we could make these two changes.

1) Crews are adjacent to (fuel, tires, engine) of their corresponding car (meaning they can attack back and forth between the car conditions and their crew).

2) Provided you control at least one of these four territories (fuel or tires or engine of your car) or (your pit crew) then the winners circle is adjacent to the ones you control.

And one final change would stop forces from getting stuck in the pit equipment.

3) If you control all three of the same of any of the 5 pit equipment all 3 of those territories may assault the pit row.

These are fairly radical ideas using conditional borders (which didn't exist when I started development on this map)

=D=


I like the ideas except for the second one. I liked it that crews couldnt touch the winners circle. Making it so it can be attacked from anywhere will make you too vulnerable imo. The moment someone breaks down the winners circle, I fear everybody will start using it from all directions. I'd prefer it if the pit row was 10 neutrals in stead of 20 then. This way people who get kicked off the track very fast can still get back in the game. 20 seems too high for that.


2 is probably overkill.

=D=
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