The Conquer 500

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Re: The Conquer 500 - 7/19 - Minor XML Update (Ready For Upl

Postby Gilligan on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:34 am

here.
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Re: The Conquer 500 - 7/19 - Minor XML Update (Ready For Upl

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:40 am

Here is the diff where BOB broke initially

http://diffchecker.com/eac16r7y

Here is the changes between the working one and the current XML that I just submitted.

http://diffchecker.com/e35ekozf

=D13=
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Re: The Conquer 500 - 7/25 - Minor XML Update (Ready For Upl

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:08 pm

New XML has been uploaded!
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Re: The Conquer 500 - 7/25 - Minor XML Update (Ready For Upl

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:37 pm

isaiah40 wrote:New XML has been uploaded!


Excellent =) Thanx

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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:54 pm

Just over 2 weeks since the last XML update and I am really happy with how the map is playing. I still can't stand "no spoils" games as they bog down on this map just like every other "no spoils" map.

Anyway if anyone has seen any issues with bonuses or territory connections or if you feel like the added bonuses or the connection between the pit equipment and the pit row seem somehow imbalancing please let us know.

Looks like we have the white flag with one lap left to go before this map enters the winners circle ;)

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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby iancanton on Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:38 am

in Game 13029228, 2013-07-27 00:30:02 - jkppkj received 3 troops for holding A Pit Tool and A Pit Jack and A Pit Engine. i see no mention in the legend of this particular combination of pit equipment. have i missed something or is this a mistake in the xml? i'm guessing that this happened before the latest xml was uploaded.

ian. :)
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby GeeksAreMyPeeps on Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:58 am

iancanton wrote:in Game 13029228, 2013-07-27 00:30:02 - jkppkj received 3 troops for holding A Pit Tool and A Pit Jack and A Pit Engine. i see no mention in the legend of this particular combination of pit equipment. have i missed something or is this a mistake in the xml? i'm guessing that this happened before the latest xml was uploaded.

ian. :)

It's in the box in the lower right, represented by the icons.
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:08 pm

iancanton wrote:in Game 13029228, 2013-07-27 00:30:02 - jkppkj received 3 troops for holding A Pit Tool and A Pit Jack and A Pit Engine. i see no mention in the legend of this particular combination of pit equipment. have i missed something or is this a mistake in the xml? i'm guessing that this happened before the latest xml was uploaded. - ian. :)


The bonus and it's overrides are correct in the xml that Gilligan posted above however the title of that bonus is a typo. So it won't affect play but will look strange in the summary till it is fixed. In that game jkppkj held the right territories for the bonus.

Here is a side by side showing the typo... http://www.diffchecker.com/9jh231eu

It is corrected in this xml.

=D13=
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby Gilligan on Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:50 pm

Whoops, sorry if that was me! I don't know how that could have happened though...
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:24 am

We are on the final lap of the race here but I noticed something in a in a game recently that makes me want to make a small change.

When someone used winners circle to clean out the entire pits and there were 3 players left on the track ... in trench mode it became almost impossible to effectively move around the track ... I am not sure anything really needs to be done about it but if we simply added "winners circle can assault pit row" it would allow you to loop back to the red circles on the track via the a cost of 20 neutral in winners circle and 20 neutral at pit row making.

Does anyone else think this change would make the map better?
... or worse?
... or change strategy too greatly?

I really feel it would open up the map a bit and give a nice a slightly expensive way to bypass the counterclockwise flow of the track that would certainly help in the late game.

Thoughts?

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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:00 pm

Leave it the way it is!!
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby GeeksAreMyPeeps on Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:14 pm

dolomite13 wrote:We are on the final lap of the race here but I noticed something in a in a game recently that makes me want to make a small change.

When someone used winners circle to clean out the entire pits and there were 3 players left on the track ... in trench mode it became almost impossible to effectively move around the track ... I am not sure anything really needs to be done about it but if we simply added "winners circle can assault pit row" it would allow you to loop back to the red circles on the track via the a cost of 20 neutral in winners circle and 20 neutral at pit row making.

Does anyone else think this change would make the map better?
... or worse?
... or change strategy too greatly?

I really feel it would open up the map a bit and give a nice a slightly expensive way to bypass the counterclockwise flow of the track that would certainly help in the late game.

Thoughts?

=D13=

Well, right now that game is never going to end, unless one of us stops trying to win, or makes a big mistake. We're going to keep going in circles. So something has to change. I don't see that anyone would pay that cost earlier in the game (unless both spots are already occupied by a single troop) and it will make it necessary to spread your troops out along a stretch you control in order to adequately protect what you control.
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:20 pm

isaiah40 wrote:Leave it the way it is!!


I am leaning towards calling it good as it is, mainly because this won't happen all that often, but I am concerned somewhat about never-ending-game-syndrome. Which is why I brought it up at all.

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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby iancanton on Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:54 am

winner's circle is missing the apostrophe.

ian. :)
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby GeeksAreMyPeeps on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:58 am

iancanton wrote:winner's circle is missing the apostrophe.

ian. :)

No no. It's a statement. "Circle" is a verb, pointing out that s/he who wins in entitled to a victory lap. :lol:
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:46 pm

GeeksAreMyPeeps wrote:
iancanton wrote:winner's circle is missing the apostrophe.

ian. :)

No no. It's a statement. "Circle" is a verb, pointing out that s/he who wins in entitled to a victory lap. :lol:


No that's the "Victory Lap" ... "Winner's Circle" is the place in the Indy 500 and other races where the driver who wins the race is presented with some trophy or other award. At the Indy 500 they get a wreath and a jug of milk (this article explains why).

Anyway I will fix that shortly.

After watching that game you are in GeeksAreMyPeeps ... I think that one of you should be able to cache in a set and put troops on the back of your section of track and stop your opponent from getting reinforcements while you whittle away at them from behind ... If you guys are still playing that game after another 10 to 15 turns we may need to consider connecting the "winners circle" to the "pit row" ad a possible way to allow you to jump around the track. I would still rather not make this change if it can be helped as it sort of forces you out of trench and could imbalance other game modes.

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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby GeeksAreMyPeeps on Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:08 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
GeeksAreMyPeeps wrote:
iancanton wrote:winner's circle is missing the apostrophe.

ian. :)

No no. It's a statement. "Circle" is a verb, pointing out that s/he who wins in entitled to a victory lap. :lol:


No that's the "Victory Lap" ... "Winner's Circle" is the place in the Indy 500 and other races where the driver who wins the race is presented with some trophy or other award. At the Indy 500 they get a wreath and a jug of milk (this article explains why).


I know. That was kind of a joke.

dolomite13 wrote:After watching that game you are in GeeksAreMyPeeps ... I think that one of you should be able to cache in a set and put troops on the back of your section of track and stop your opponent from getting reinforcements while you whittle away at them from behind ... If you guys are still playing that game after another 10 to 15 turns we may need to consider connecting the "winners circle" to the "pit row" ad a possible way to allow you to jump around the track. I would still rather not make this change if it can be helped.

=D13=

In an unbalanced game, that might be possible. But we both similar stacks (1334/1426) on the front lines, and a set is only worth 180 at this point. At most that's a speed bump that the opponent will roll over. I suppose one of us could hold back more troops to form a bigger wall, but that will only allow the other person to reinforce defensively and block the opponent from getting spoils as you suggest.
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:33 pm

GeeksAreMyPeeps wrote:
In an unbalanced game, that might be possible. But we both similar stacks (1334/1426) on the front lines, and a set is only worth 180 at this point. At most that's a speed bump that the opponent will roll over. I suppose one of us could hold back more troops to form a bigger wall, but that will only allow the other person to reinforce defensively and block the opponent from getting spoils as you suggest.


I know Ian is against another major change like this ... as I really ... but I still think it worth exploring as a possible way to speed up games.

How do you feel being able to say attack the "pit row" from "winners circle" would change your game?

You could both pretty much kill each others track bonus via that route so then you would both be getting less troops. But then someone could jump across the map and drop a big pile of troops next to their opponents big pile and in one big bloodbath the game would probably be reset down to reasonable numbers.

How would this affect a non-trench game? would that extra connection seem like something that isn't in the theme of the map?

=D13=
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby GeeksAreMyPeeps on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:48 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
GeeksAreMyPeeps wrote:
In an unbalanced game, that might be possible. But we both similar stacks (1334/1426) on the front lines, and a set is only worth 180 at this point. At most that's a speed bump that the opponent will roll over. I suppose one of us could hold back more troops to form a bigger wall, but that will only allow the other person to reinforce defensively and block the opponent from getting spoils as you suggest.


I know Ian is against another major change like this ... as I really ... but I still think it worth exploring as a possible way to speed up games.

How do you feel being able to say attack the "pit row" from "winners circle" would change your game?

You could both pretty much kill each others track bonus via that route so then you would both be getting less troops. But then someone could jump across the map and drop a big pile of troops next to their opponents big pile and in one big bloodbath the game would probably be reset down to reasonable numbers.

How would this affect a non-trench game? would that extra connection seem like something that isn't in the theme of the map?

=D13=


I'm not sure whether there would be a huge need for that in non-trench games, unless someone is focused on taking out a specific player.

We've got a similar but different problem in this game (https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12678850); sorry, it's Fog, so it's tough to see what's going on. But basically all of the occupied territories are on the track and no one's moving because everyone is so built up that if you attack the person in front of you, you weaken yourself to your opponent behind you. Since I have the most territories it's just a matter of building up to a significant enough level to not weaken myself when pressing my advantage.
I wonder if opening it up so that you can attack the segment in front of you or the red circle in the next segment would make any difference.
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:50 pm

GeeksAreMyPeeps wrote:
dolomite13 wrote:
GeeksAreMyPeeps wrote:
In an unbalanced game, that might be possible. But we both similar stacks (1334/1426) on the front lines, and a set is only worth 180 at this point. At most that's a speed bump that the opponent will roll over. I suppose one of us could hold back more troops to form a bigger wall, but that will only allow the other person to reinforce defensively and block the opponent from getting spoils as you suggest.


I know Ian is against another major change like this ... as I really ... but I still think it worth exploring as a possible way to speed up games.

How do you feel being able to say attack the "pit row" from "winners circle" would change your game?

You could both pretty much kill each others track bonus via that route so then you would both be getting less troops. But then someone could jump across the map and drop a big pile of troops next to their opponents big pile and in one big bloodbath the game would probably be reset down to reasonable numbers.

How would this affect a non-trench game? would that extra connection seem like something that isn't in the theme of the map?

=D13=



I'm not sure whether there would be a huge need for that in non-trench games, unless someone is focused on taking out a specific player.

We've got a similar but different problem in this game (https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12678850); sorry, it's Fog, so it's tough to see what's going on. But basically all of the occupied territories are on the track and no one's moving because everyone is so built up that if you attack the person in front of you, you weaken yourself to your opponent behind you. Since I have the most territories it's just a matter of building up to a significant enough level to not weaken myself when pressing my advantage.
I wonder if opening it up so that you can attack the segment in front of you or the red circle in the next segment would make any difference.



Something like ...

"All track locations assault all track locations in the same or next track segment counterclockwise. If you hold the Winner's Circle your track segments may assault up to two track segments counterclockwise"

This would be sort of a "drafting" maneuver that would let you dump forces on the winners circle every turn to try and overtake an opponent on the track.

Thoughts?

=D13=
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [BETA]

Postby GeeksAreMyPeeps on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:42 pm

dolomite13 wrote:
GeeksAreMyPeeps wrote:
dolomite13 wrote:
GeeksAreMyPeeps wrote:
In an unbalanced game, that might be possible. But we both similar stacks (1334/1426) on the front lines, and a set is only worth 180 at this point. At most that's a speed bump that the opponent will roll over. I suppose one of us could hold back more troops to form a bigger wall, but that will only allow the other person to reinforce defensively and block the opponent from getting spoils as you suggest.


I know Ian is against another major change like this ... as I really ... but I still think it worth exploring as a possible way to speed up games.

How do you feel being able to say attack the "pit row" from "winners circle" would change your game?

You could both pretty much kill each others track bonus via that route so then you would both be getting less troops. But then someone could jump across the map and drop a big pile of troops next to their opponents big pile and in one big bloodbath the game would probably be reset down to reasonable numbers.

How would this affect a non-trench game? would that extra connection seem like something that isn't in the theme of the map?

=D13=



I'm not sure whether there would be a huge need for that in non-trench games, unless someone is focused on taking out a specific player.

We've got a similar but different problem in this game (https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=12678850); sorry, it's Fog, so it's tough to see what's going on. But basically all of the occupied territories are on the track and no one's moving because everyone is so built up that if you attack the person in front of you, you weaken yourself to your opponent behind you. Since I have the most territories it's just a matter of building up to a significant enough level to not weaken myself when pressing my advantage.
I wonder if opening it up so that you can attack the segment in front of you or the red circle in the next segment would make any difference.



Something like ...

"All track locations assault all track locations in the same or next track segment counterclockwise. If you hold the Winner's Circle your track segments may assault up to two track segments counterclockwise"

This would be sort of a "drafting" maneuver that would let you dump forces on the winners circle every turn to try and overtake an opponent on the track.

Thoughts?

=D13=

That opens it up a bit. I'm not sure that's going to make a huge difference in the game that you initially mentioned, as we both control about half the track, and a continuous stretch of it, but I think the current situation is going to be a relative rarity.
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [Trench Issues Discussion]

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:04 am

Based on how several Trench games have become bogged down with the final two players forces existing only on the track, just waiting for an opponent to miss their turns, give up, or suicide I believe there is probably a simple solution that will help open up the track a little bit or possibly a lot that would let the player with superior forces end the game as it should be.

I am still considering one of these options.

1) Winner's Circle assaults Pit Row - Represents a "victory lap", I know i'm stretching fir that analogy. (preferred solution - makes you need to go through 40 forces to be allowed to jump across the track)
or
2) If you hold the Winner's Circle your track segments may assault up to two track segments counterclockwise, this would represent "drafting" on a race track (possibly not enough of a difference)
or
3) adding a "white flag" space, the white flag signals one lap to go in a race, this space would be 100 neutral and could be assaulted by and assault all track locations. (I would rather not add a whole new location but this would quickly end those imbalanced trench games)

Provided that the foundry execs agree that

1) trench games need the help as they can get bogged down on the track
2) the change can be added with minimal effort
3) the change doesn't unbalance other game play modes

=D13=
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [Trench Issues Discussion]

Postby GeeksAreMyPeeps on Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:36 pm

dolomite13 wrote:Based on how several Trench games have become bogged down with the final two players forces existing only on the track, just waiting for an opponent to miss their turns, give up, or suicide I believe there is probably a simple solution that will help open up the track a little bit or possibly a lot that would let the player with superior forces end the game as it should be.

I am still considering one of these options.

1) Winner's Circle assaults Pit Row - Represents a "victory lap", I know i'm stretching fir that analogy. (preferred solution - makes you need to go through 40 forces to be allowed to jump across the track)
or
2) If you hold the Winner's Circle your track segments may assault up to two track segments counterclockwise, this would represent "drafting" on a race track (possibly not enough of a difference)
or
3) adding a "white flag" space, the white flag signals one lap to go in a race, this space would be 100 neutral and could be assaulted by and assault all track locations. (I would rather not add a whole new location but this would quickly end those imbalanced trench games)

Provided that the foundry execs agree that

1) trench games need the help as they can get bogged down on the track
2) the change can be added with minimal effort
3) the change doesn't unbalance other game play modes

=D13=

I think one of the fundamental problems is that once you're limited to track locations only, the only way to improve your chances of winning are to take the next location. In Trench that means taking the next segment, but unless you're already in really good shape it's zero-sum, since you probably don't have the forces to protect your rear and press ahead. Maybe the solution is to allow the Winner's Circle to Assault the Equipment, as that would then change the dynamic to include multiple avenues of action. Otherwise the track is the only thing to defend, and the only place to secure a bonus.
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Re: The Conquer 500 - [Trench Issues Discussion]

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:38 pm

GeeksAreMyPeeps wrote:
dolomite13 wrote:Based on how several Trench games have become bogged down with the final two players forces existing only on the track, just waiting for an opponent to miss their turns, give up, or suicide I believe there is probably a simple solution that will help open up the track a little bit or possibly a lot that would let the player with superior forces end the game as it should be.

I am still considering one of these options.

1) Winner's Circle assaults Pit Row - Represents a "victory lap", I know i'm stretching fir that analogy. (preferred solution - makes you need to go through 40 forces to be allowed to jump across the track)
or
2) If you hold the Winner's Circle your track segments may assault up to two track segments counterclockwise, this would represent "drafting" on a race track (possibly not enough of a difference)
or
3) adding a "white flag" space, the white flag signals one lap to go in a race, this space would be 100 neutral and could be assaulted by and assault all track locations. (I would rather not add a whole new location but this would quickly end those imbalanced trench games)

Provided that the foundry execs agree that

1) trench games need the help as they can get bogged down on the track
2) the change can be added with minimal effort
3) the change doesn't unbalance other game play modes

=D13=

I think one of the fundamental problems is that once you're limited to track locations only, the only way to improve your chances of winning are to take the next location. In Trench that means taking the next segment, but unless you're already in really good shape it's zero-sum, since you probably don't have the forces to protect your rear and press ahead. Maybe the solution is to allow the Winner's Circle to Assault the Equipment, as that would then change the dynamic to include multiple avenues of action. Otherwise the track is the only thing to defend, and the only place to secure a bonus.


I really don't want the track to be able to allow you to get back into the pits once eliminated from there. In a real race in the last few laps it all comes down to not wrecking or running out of fuel which by not having pits it simulates that end of the race but there is no urgency at the end ...no sense that the race is almost over... 1 and 3 above could do that

=D13=
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BUG ALERT!!!! - NEW XML UPDATE NEEDED

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:11 pm

BUG ALERT! - Looks like the connection we added between pit equipment and pit row seems to have disappeared.

I fixed it in the xml. Can we get this uploaded soon please.

=D13=
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Conquer500v.xml
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