The Drop Combos Table

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The Drop Combos Table

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:23 am

Would somebody like to post the "Drop Combos Table" for everyone to use to show mapmakers the ideal numbers of territories for players 2 -8 from 20 to say 100 - to show how the neutrals are calculated.
It would help me, it would help new mapmakers, it would help everyone as a reference tool. :)
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby gimil on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:26 am

cairnswk wrote:Would somebody like to post the "Drop Combos Table" for everyone to use to show mapmakers the ideal numbers of territories for players 2 -8 from 20 to say 100 - to show how the neutrals are calculated.
It would help me, it would help new mapmakers, it would help everyone as a reference tool. :)


I think I will go ahead and create this just now and get it posted in map making tools.
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby e_i_pi on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:28 am

gimil wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Would somebody like to post the "Drop Combos Table" for everyone to use to show mapmakers the ideal numbers of territories for players 2 -8 from 20 to say 100 - to show how the neutrals are calculated.
It would help me, it would help new mapmakers, it would help everyone as a reference tool. :)


I think I will go ahead and create this just now and get it posted in map making tools.

I've done it already dude, for the USA map pack thing. I'm sure I gave WM the link... lemme go find it
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby e_i_pi on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:31 am

File is here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mwflnyzwmij

Fill in the blank spaces with data, the blue spaces are formulas, so automatically fill in for you

Data you must enter
Total provinces - Enter the total number of droppable provinces on the map (ie - not neutrals)
Continent - Enter the continent names in this column
Provinces - Enter the number of provinces in the continent in this column
Held - Enter the number of provinces that must be held in order to get the bonus for the continent

The blue column calculates the chances of dropping the continent in a 2p or 3p game
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:48 am

e_i_pi wrote:File is here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mwflnyzwmij

Fill in the blank spaces with data, the blue spaces are formulas, so automatically fill in for you

Data you must enter
Total provinces - Enter the total number of droppable provinces on the map (ie - not neutrals)
Continent - Enter the continent names in this column
Provinces - Enter the number of provinces in the continent in this column
Held - Enter the number of provinces that must be held in order to get the bonus for the continent

The blue column calculates the chances of dropping the continent in a 2p or 3p game


Nice tool e_i_pi...thanks.

the top section....can that formula be applied to any number of players 2-8, if the table is extended?
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:49 am

gimil wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Would somebody like to post the "Drop Combos Table" for everyone to use to show mapmakers the ideal numbers of territories for players 2 -8 from 20 to say 100 - to show how the neutrals are calculated.
It would help me, it would help new mapmakers, it would help everyone as a reference tool. :)


I think I will go ahead and create this just now and get it posted in map making tools.


That's be great, thanks Gimil. :)
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby gimil on Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:08 am

e_i_pi I think this is moer to what cairns is looking for.

Excel 2007
http://h1.ripway.com/gimil/Player%20Starts%20Counter.xlsx

Excel 2003
http://h1.ripway.com/gimil/Player%20Starts%20Counter.xlsx

It could probably use a better name but I think I am going to add more stuff to this as I go along so we will just go with it for now.
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby cairnswk on Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:23 am

gimil wrote:e_i_pi I think this is moer to what cairns is looking for.

Excel 2007
http://h1.ripway.com/gimil/Player%20Starts%20Counter.xlsx

Excel 2003
http://h1.ripway.com/gimil/Player%20Starts%20Counter.xlsx

It could probably use a better name but I think I am going to add more stuff to this as I go along so we will just go with it for now.


Thanks Gimil, exactly.
And i managed to add in the neutral starters for reference in the Trafalgar map.
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby gimil on Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:36 am

cairnswk wrote:
gimil wrote:e_i_pi I think this is moer to what cairns is looking for.

Excel 2007
http://h1.ripway.com/gimil/Player%20Starts%20Counter.xlsx

Excel 2003
http://h1.ripway.com/gimil/Player%20Starts%20Counter.xlsx

It could probably use a better name but I think I am going to add more stuff to this as I go along so we will just go with it for now.


Thanks Gimil, exactly.
And i managed to add in the neutral starters for reference in the Trafalgar map.


Yes I will add that to my own file before I add this to map making tools :)
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby e_i_pi on Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:54 am

cairnswk wrote:Nice tool e_i_pi...thanks.

the top section....can that formula be applied to any number of players 2-8, if the table is extended?

I can configure it so that the columns show the chances for n players, shouldn't be too hard. You interested in that?

Unfortunately, I can't see the other files as they are Office 2007 format. I'll be able to check them at work on Thursday though
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby gimil on Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:08 pm

e_i_pi wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Nice tool e_i_pi...thanks.

the top section....can that formula be applied to any number of players 2-8, if the table is extended?

I can configure it so that the columns show the chances for n players, shouldn't be too hard. You interested in that?

Unfortunately, I can't see the other files as they are Office 2007 format. I'll be able to check them at work on Thursday though


There is an office 2003 version there are well pi.
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby MrBenn on Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:16 pm

Have you included so-called 'golden' numbers, where you need to take 2 territories from your opponent before their starting bonus is reduced (ie 14, 17, 20...)
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Re: The Drop Combos Table

Postby e_i_pi on Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:34 am

MrBenn wrote:Have you included so-called 'golden' numbers, where you need to take 2 territories from your opponent before their starting bonus is reduced (ie 14, 17, 20...)

You're starting to open up a can of worms with concerns like that Benn. While I agree a 42 territory map is vastly superior gameplay wise to a 36 territory map, when we start considering elements like this, then we must also consider such concepts as:

  • Connectivity - Mediterranean in Alexander's Empire has high connectivity
  • Reach - Cannons in Waterloo have high reach
  • Span/Breakability - Uxbridge 2 in Waterloo has high span/breakability, as it can attack cannons on two sides and therefore reach very far, as well as break 6 potential bonuses directly
  • Defensibility - Adelaide-MtGambier-Eureka in Australia is a zone with high defensibility (requires few troops to hold off a great many)

I think analysing a map and its territories this closely before playtesting using a set procedure/set tools would be prone to so much error that codifying it would potentially be quite counter-productive.

Of course, I do believe that noticing the intricacies of a map, and discussing at length the different aspects of gameplay of a map before quench is well worth it. I just don't think creating a spreadsheet to attempt to equate and balance a map would necessarily be worthwhile. I'll give an analogous example:

At work, we have a procedure for printing out labels so we can send out information packs. The whole procedure takes about 5 minutes. This is worthwhile if you're doing several labels, but if you're just doing one, you may as well write it out by hand.

ie - sometimes the human eye and mind can do a job a lot quicker and better than a coded procedure :)
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