XML Starting Positions

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Re: XML Starting Positions

Postby hecter on Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:45 pm

Coolio. Thanks Mr. Benn!
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby MrBenn on Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:42 am

yeti_c wrote:
MrBenn wrote:My understanding of how the start positions work is as follows:
  • Each <position> can contain single or multiple territories.
  • The <position> groups are divided equally amongst the players, with each player getting all of the territories in the <position(s)> they have been allocated. Any remaining territories in left-over <position> tags are divided equally (with 1/3 neutral in 2-player games).
  • Territories in <position> tags can be dealt to players even when the underlying territory has a <neutral> tag
  • Any territories not in <position> tags, and that do not have <neutral> starts, are divided equally amongst players (with 1/3 neutral in 2-player games)
  • If there are more players than starting positions, the <position> tags are ignored
  • It is not possible to specify which player will get which <position>
  • It is not possible to specify a <position> that will be dealt out in every game
  • It is not possible to limit the number of positions to the number of players (ie. the game engine will distribute 8 positions evenly amongst 4 players, rather than allocate 1 each and have 4 positions starting neutral)


Correct - also note that with the positions tags - you can set the amount of armies those territories start with too.

C.

The thing I'm wondering now, is what would happen if a map had 5 starting positions, with no starting neutrals?
In 1v1, the starts are divided into 3 - 1 for each player and 1 for neutral... With 5 starts in a 1v1, each player gets given 1, 1 turns neutral; what happens to the other 2? Are they allocated neutral, or do they get lumped together with the non-designated starts?
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Re: Starting Positions

Postby yeti_c on Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:18 am

MrBenn wrote:The thing I'm wondering now, is what would happen if a map had 5 starting positions, with no starting neutrals?
In 1v1, the starts are divided into 3 - 1 for each player and 1 for neutral... With 5 starts in a 1v1, each player gets given 1, 1 turns neutral; what happens to the other 2? Are they allocated neutral, or do they get lumped together with the non-designated starts?


They get put in the Non designated starts...

This happened in Das Schloss the first cut - and led to some people getting starts when they shouldn't've...

To combat this then you have to designate the starting positions as neutral X...

Note - Starting positions are equally distributed in 1v1 (no neutral player).

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Re: XML Starting Positions

Postby MrBenn on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:53 am

yeti_c wrote:Note - Starting positions are equally distributed in 1v1 (no neutral player).

So with 5 starting positions in a 1v1, 2 each would be allocated to players, with the third being added to the pot for distribution unless it was a designated neutral.

I think I've got it now ;-)
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Re: XML Starting Positions

Postby yeti_c on Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:08 pm

MrBenn wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Note - Starting positions are equally distributed in 1v1 (no neutral player).

So with 5 starting positions in a 1v1, 2 each would be allocated to players, with the third being added to the pot for distribution unless it was a designated neutral.

I think I've got it now ;-)


Correct.

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Re: XML Starting Positions

Postby dolomite13 on Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:24 am

MrBenn wrote:
yeti_c wrote:Note - Starting positions are equally distributed in 1v1 (no neutral player).

So with 5 starting positions in a 1v1, 2 each would be allocated to players, with the third being added to the pot for distribution unless it was a designated neutral. I think I've got it now ;-)


So here is my dilema, I think what you are saying here solves my problem. I would like the drop to start out by assigning my <positions> tag territories. and then do the standard random drop of the remaining 16 territories. I do not want the extra territories from the first 8 to be added to the pool of 16 additional drops.

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I have 8 wizards (color circles on the above map) I have assigned start positions to and set them to neutral 1.
I have 16 monsters (black circles on the above map) that I have not assigned neutrals to.

In a 2 player game
- both players would have 4 wizards each.
- both players would have 8 monsters each.

In a 3 player game
- all players would have 3 wizards each with 2 remainder set to neutral.
- all players would have 6 monsters each with 2 remainder set to neutral.

In a 4 player game
- all players would have 2 wizards each.
- all players would have 4 monsters each.

In a 5 player game
- all players would have 1 wizard each with 3 remainder set to neutral.
- all players would have 3 monsters each with 1 remainder set to neutral.

In a 6 player game
- all players would have 1 wizard each with 2 remainder set to neutral.
- all players would have 2 monsters each with 4 remainder set to neutral.

In a 7 player game
- all players would have 1 wizard each with 1 remainder set to neutral.
- all players would have 2 monsters each with 2 remainder set to neutral.

In a 8 player game
- all players would have 1 wizards each.
- all players would have 2 monsters each.

Here is the starting positions for the 8 wizards.

Code: Select all
<!-- Starting positions -->

<positions>
   <position>
      <territory start=1>Rayden</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start=1>Brago</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start=1>Yesha</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start=1>Sythe</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start=1>Grath</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start=1>Olan</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start=1>Purlin</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory start=1>Cryma</territory>
   </position>
</positions>


Here is a sample from the XML of the starting territories (wizards).

Code: Select all
<territory>
   <name>Olan</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Ora</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>286</smallx>
      <smally>405</smally>
      <largex>383</largex>
      <largey>532</largey>
   </coordinates>
   <neutral>1</neutral>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
</territory>


Also I have 16 additional territories that I don't care how they get dropped. They are coded like this.

Code: Select all
<territory>
   <name>Jeo</name>
   <borders>
      <border>Heb</border>
      <border>Koz</border>
   </borders>
   <coordinates>
      <smallx>458</smallx>
      <smally>354</smally>
      <largex>612</largex>
      <largey>464</largey>
   </coordinates>
</territory>


I was under the impression that the code worked this way.

- Game engine "counts" the players (A) and the starting positions (B).
- B/A = C (and D) ... 8/7 = 7 (and 1)
- Where C is the number of starting positions for each player and D is a eventually remainder.
- The game engine will sum the remainder with the other territories (E), then the total number will divided among players again.
- D+E / A = F (and G) ... (1+16)/7 = 2 (and 3)
- F will be the number of territories assigned to a player (with 3 default troops) and G an eventually remainder (3 neutral troops)

It sounds like the <neutral>1</neutral> in my starting territory would change that. And the leftover starting territories would become neutrals and not be added to the general pool for distribution. Is this correct?

Thanx

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Re: XML Starting Positions

Postby yeti_c on Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:37 am

I think you're missing something here...

Territories - and Starting positions aren't mutually exclusive entities - there fore D cannot be added to E - as D may already part of E.

Say you have a map with 40 territories - 20 of them are neutral territories.

10 of these are starting positions.

Without further info - you cannot work out the starting territory count...

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Re: XML Starting Positions

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:42 am

yeti_c wrote:I think you're missing something here...

Territories - and Starting positions aren't mutually exclusive entities - there fore D cannot be added to E - as D may already part of E.

Say you have a map with 40 territories - 20 of them are neutral territories.

10 of these are starting positions.

Without further info - you cannot work out the starting territory count...

C.


The example he did was use by me to explain him how the starting will work....E is the group of territories to split among players without neutrals and without starting position. ( so is not exactly a part of D). I know, i used a large way to explain him :)
He was just saying that the eventually reminder will be splitted among players with other territories ;)

His problem is about the reminder....he want to know if a starting position could be coded as a neutral if it will be a part of reminder....

example: 8 starting position

8 players --> 1 starting position for each player, no reminder
6 players --> 1 starting position for each player, a reminder of 2 territories.

His question:
Is possible to set this 2 territories to have them ever neutral if not used as starting positions?

Virtually <neutral> tag is the last one of a single territory so it would be possible doing what dolomite was saying, but i'm not sure at 100%....
yeti it's my thought correct?

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Re: XML Starting Positions

Postby yeti_c on Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:42 am

Yes - If a Starting position isn't used - and it is set to Neutral - then it will be neutral...

Obviously that same "neutral" territory - could be used as a Starting territory depending on the draw...

So - the only way to guarantee similar starts is either making ALL of your starts neutral - or ALL of your starts "normal"...

Or if you have multi territory starts - that the same mix applies...

i.e. 2 territories per start - one is neutral and one is normal.

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Starting positions

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:33 am

Ok, if I have 8 starting positions on a map, the rest is random deployment... in a 1v1 game will each player get 4 of the starting positions?

I'm really stumped on this and need to know for the gameplay aspect of my map, here's a link to the discussion we've had over there:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=78339&start=165
Sketchblog [Update 07/25/11]: http://indyhelixsketch.blogspot.com/
Living in Japan [Update 07/17/11]: http://mirrorcountryih.blogspot.com/
Russian Revolution map for ConquerClub [07/20/11]: viewtopic.php?f=241&t=116575
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Re: Starting positions

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:03 am

If you have 8 starting positions, these positions will be splitted (randomly) among the players.
So both players will have 4 starting positions. ;)

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Re: Starting positions

Postby The Neon Peon on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:29 am

thenobodies80 wrote:If you have 8 starting positions, these positions will be splitted (randomly) among the players.
So both players will have 4 starting positions. ;)

Um... no. Each player would have 2 starting positions because it would be the same as in a 3 player game, with the third player being replaced by more neutrals.

Disagree.
Starting positions are equally distributed in 1v1 (no neutral player)
What you said is true only if the starting tag isn't used.
Ask to yeti_c if you want ;)
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Re: Starting positions

Postby The Neon Peon on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:00 am

thenobodies80 wrote:If you have 8 starting positions, these positions will be splitted (randomly) among the players.
So both players will have 4 starting positions. ;)

Don't edit my post to reply to it. It looks as if I'm bipolar and I changed my mind halfway through typing it.
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Re: Starting positions

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:02 am

The Neon Peon wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:If you have 8 starting positions, these positions will be splitted (randomly) among the players.
So both players will have 4 starting positions. ;)

Don't edit my post to reply to it. It looks as if I'm bipolar and I changed my mind halfway through typing it.


sorry :oops:

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Re: Starting positions

Postby The Neon Peon on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:10 am

thenobodies80 wrote:
The Neon Peon wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:If you have 8 starting positions, these positions will be splitted (randomly) among the players.
So both players will have 4 starting positions. ;)

Don't edit my post to reply to it. It looks as if I'm bipolar and I changed my mind halfway through typing it.


sorry :oops:

:lol: no problem.
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