VI NATIONS 2011 [WINNER=TEAM IRELAND]

[Conchobar]

Ok. Thanks, à demain.

[IR1SH ACE]

not happy with all this messin around with the scores, all the games ur changing started and finished within the time of the tourny. so what if a few people where a few hours late to join. they all went off in the end and ended in time, now ur just makin things more confusing.

it smells of desperation to me.........

[Sniper08]

come on dont tell me the french are gonna cheat ireland out of another victory (henry again).

gorehound still joined the games he didnt deadbeat so we should have the win.if france win its seems like really cheap tactics to win like this.

[IR1SH ACE]

so u have played around with the scores and given Ireland 1 less win and Given France 1 more win.........that seems fair to me......bullshit, Im callin shenanigans on this torny

[DJENRE]

come on dont tell me the french are gonna cheat ireland out of another victory (henry again).

gorehound still joined the games he didnt deadbeat so we should have the win.if france win its seems like really cheap tactics to win like this.

please, we talk about rugby there. Don't tell me about Henry. Short memory. Remember Ireland did the same few weeks before henry to win a match.

[DJENRE]

Now everything is double checked and the results are : (also written in second post of the thread)

FINAL RESULTS
(+/- number) = goalaverage

FRANCE -----> 1 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 ===> 9 (+38)

IRELAND -----> 2 + 0 + 2 + 0 + 2 ===> 6 (+8)

SCOTLAND -----> 1 + 1 + 0 + 2 + 2 ===> 6 (+4)

ENGLAND -----> 2 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 ===> 3 (-10)

ITALY -----> 0 + 1 + 2 + 0 + 0 ===> 3 (-8)

WALES -----> 0 + 1 + 0 + 2 + 0 ===> 3 (-32)

Every single player knew that there were a rule about time up for each game played in this tournament. This rule has been set to be close to real rules (80 min. for a match, no more, no less).
This rule was written when I created the tournament and I told you again when the tournament started. (see spoiler in first post = "PM sent to all players").
But I hoped I had not to use it to show a winner.
It seems that team Ireland wants to complain about it.
The fact is I firstly update scores without that rules, hopping I don't have to use it. And Ireland saw first results and believe they have won the tourney.
If this rule hasn't been set, it was unfair for team who joined in time and wait for players from the opposite team, because they had less time to kill their opponents.

Without that rule, final results should be:
IRELAND -----> 2 + 0 + 2 + 2 + 2 ===> 8 (+18)
FRANCE -----> 1 + 2 + 2 + 0 + 2 ===> 7 (+33)
ITALY -----> 0 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 2 ===> 7 (0)
ENGLAND -----> 2 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 0 ===> 4 (-6)
SCOTLAND -----> 1 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 0 ===> 3 (-6)
WALES -----> 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 ===> 1 (-39)

We should ask players from the other team not involved in that problem (all teams except FRANCE and IRELAND) to give their opinion about it :
Option 1) FRANCE IS THE WINNER OF VI NATIONS
Option 2) Because I don't want to earn a tourney because of quitting, and if players ask for it, we could play a two last sets of games (like week games = 12 gamesx2 = 24 games) on France and Ireland maps. We start this "new finale" with previous score of WEEK 2 Ireland-France (10-14).

What about those two teams :
FRANCE
Winner of VI NATIONS (applying time rules)
Second of VI NATIONS (not applying time rules)
FRANCE win VS IRELAND in WEEK 2
Best Goalaverage (applying time rules)
Best Goalaverage (not applying time rules)
Best Score in game 24-0 (applying or not applying time rules)
France also won a 6th match in preround.

IRELAND
Second of VI NATIONS (applying time rules)
Winner of VI NATIONS (not applying time rules)
Close to GA medal 4 on 5 wins (quad)

[DJENRE]

so u have played around with the scores and given Ireland 1 less win and Given France 1 more win.........that seems fair to me......bullshit, Im callin shenanigans on this torny

IR1SH ACE, I know you could be upset about that. Your callin shenanigans (or sionnachuighim as you say in Ireland )on my tourney because of those rules!!! I told conchobar that if you doubt I'm fair or not, you should ask people around. Try with sirsebstar or koontz1973.

And I would say that you and your friend Sniper08 have a short memory... don't u remember I gave you a lot of extra time in WEEK 1, 2 and 3 to found a reserve instead adolf_strangler!!!

Postby DJENRE on 27 Feb 2011, 01:25

jotheconqueror enter IRELAND and replace adolf_strangler

Now could you tell again I'm not fair?

[jotheconqueror]

this is simply ABSURD...enough said

[Conchobar]

Haha, so now you're trying to say we didn't beat Wales? This late joining is nonsense. It's a silly rule that you implied was flexible when you said you got an acceptable explanation. The games should just stand. It's the honorable way to decide it, you're spoiling the contest by changing the agreed rules at the end. We found enough players, including 2 extra Irish players that you rejected because our team was already full. That is irrelevant. The teams were fine, the games were played fairly, so why try to pull a fast one? Makes no sense. And what are you talking about 4 weeks before Henry??? Makes no sense.

[DJENRE]

this is simply ABSURD...enough said

Could you be more specific?
Didn't you read rules when you joined the tournament? Even if I send you all links needed when u entered as a reserve?

[Conchobar]

O yeah and in reference to the games that didn't finish in time, we accepted 2 draws in the England trips & quads which we would've won, even with those 2 games we still win. O & the prelim game is irrelevant as it wasn't part of the SIX nations tournament & we didn't get to play a prelim game so irrelevant.

[DJENRE]

Haha, so now you're trying to say we didn't beat Wales? This late joining is nonsense. It's a silly rule that you implied was flexible when you said you got an acceptable explanation. The games should just stand. It's the honorable way to decide it, you're spoiling the contest by changing the agreed rules at the end. We found enough players, including 2 extra Irish players that you rejected because our team was already full. That is irrelevant. The teams were fine, the games were played fairly, so why try to pull a fast one? Makes no sense. And what are you talking about 4 weeks before Henry??? Makes no sense.

Once again rules were told when we started the tourney. Read carefully please.

And the players you found were FREEMIUM while we needed PREMIUM players!!!!

[DJENRE]

O & the prelim game is irrelevant as it wasn't part of the SIX nations tournament & we didn't get to play a prelim game so irrelevant.

But you don't complain about your line CLOSE TO EARN GA MEDAL QUAD SLAM.... You're so funny

I just listed what France and Ireland did in that tournament, that's all !

[Conchobar]

DJENRE wrote:jotheconqueror enter IRELAND and replace adolf_strangler
Now could you tell again I'm not fair?

Haha what!? So you wanted 6 players on each team from each country? Did you want your tournament to go ahead or what? I even helped you find Scottish & Welsh & Irish players for your tournament. What did you want? A 3 nations tournament?

[DJENRE]

DJENRE wrote:jotheconqueror enter IRELAND and replace adolf_strangler
Now could you tell again I'm not fair?

Haha what!? So you wanted 6 players on each team from each country? Did you want your tournament to go ahead or what? I even helped you find Scottish & Welsh & Irish players for your tournament. What did you want? A 3 nations tournament?

I know you helped me in finding more players. I remember, thank you for that. That's really bad that you're now complaining!
Rules are clear, but I let an option to play a last set of games beetween our two teams to see who is the best. I don't understand why you and your team are still complaining and telling bullshit???
If I wasn't fair, I could say: "rules are clear and France win the tournament".
Think about it!

[DJENRE]

And let other players give a feedback about this problem. We'll see tomorrow.
Take care

[Conchobar]

And the players you found were FREEMIUM while we needed PREMIUM players!!!! [/size][/b]

No actually I found 2 other Irish premium members that wanted to join but you had already put jo in so we accepted that.

lordhaha & Desperado1961 i believe it was in case you forget.

[Conchobar]

And let other players give a feedback about this problem. We'll see tomorrow.
Take care

Ok we'll leave it for tonight.

[jotheconqueror]

Personally i think this whole technicality is bull but i have a conflict of interest..the only way to resolve this mess is OPTION 2


not to point fingers or anything but the tourney organizer(DJENRE) imposing this technicality also has a conflict of interest

[fbonsignori]

IMHO Ireland won clearly this tourney.
This is mainly because the point assignment during the tourney: you (DJENRE I mean) cannot change suddenly the point assignment also using a rule that "should be" well known by all.

After that let me say "thank you" for this great tourney!

[Conchobar]

And he has conveniently left out option 3 where Ireland wins, hmmm...

[espaliers]

Hello all,
As member of rest of the world 1 team in preround, I vote for the initial rules for the winner, meaning 80 minutes to play. This was one of the rules clearly written at the beginning and I don't see the point to change rules in the middle of tournament.

[gorehound]

Hi All,

Sorry, I am running a record fair this weekend, and took my turns as soon as I could. I have not looked at the previous complaints as I have to run out again, but I did look at one of my Welksh Games just to see HOW we could have ended up 10-14 losing toithem when I thought we had beaten them well.
I saw this:

2011-03-13 18:39:43 - Donkeys Yawn ended the turn and got spoils
2011-03-13 18:39:43 - Incrementing game to round 4
2011-03-13 18:56:06 - gorehound received 1 troops for holding Monmouthshire
2011-03-13 18:56:06 - gorehound received 6 troops for 18 regions
2011-03-13 18:56:15 - gorehound deployed 7 troops on Henffordd
2011-03-13 18:56:23 - gorehound assaulted Ergyng from Henffordd and conquered it from Donkeys Yawn
2011-03-13 18:56:32 - gorehound assaulted Brycheiniog from Ergyng and conquered it from Donkeys Yawn
2011-03-13 18:56:39 - gorehound assaulted Buellt from Brycheiniog and conquered it from Donkeys Yawn
2011-03-13 18:56:51 - gorehound assaulted Gorfynydd from Brycheiniog and conquered it from Donkeys Yawn
2011-03-13 18:56:51 - gorehound eliminated Donkeys Yawn from the game
2011-03-13 18:56:51 - gorehound won the game
2011-03-13 18:56:51 - Donkeys Yawn lost 13 points
2011-03-13 18:56:51 - gorehound gained 13 points

Yet I lost this game, or tied it, whatever! As you can clearly see, I moved as soon as I could. It was Welsh delay that caused problem. So how does that justify a non-Irish win? There are other examples...

Have to run, check in tonight.Good luck all and thank you Djenre for setting this up and going to so much trouble and such quick updates, too!

til later

gore

[Scottyboymck]

Well the way I see it is that time delays are a tactic of the real game so taking your time to take your turn in order to force a draw is a valid way to play. (Not that I have ever done it might I add).

The only issue I have with the rule for a draw is that I never seen it implemented until the last 2 weeks worth of matches where they were going to make a difference.

Rules are rules at the end of the day and we all signed up for them - we still have a conflict of interest though with DJENRE setting the rules and being part of the winning team by default.

That said both France and Ireland have played consistently well throughout the tourney - the only way to resolve this fairly would be for a complete replay of their game week with a winner takes all result to the deserved victor.

[drunkmunky]

Ok, firstly...I think the original rule of "The tourney ends at 11pm Saturday 19th" should stand...it's clearly been there from the start (I honestly thought it was tomorrow it ended which was my fault, not the organisers) and everyone should've taken heed. As explained earlier, if some players delay a game, that doesn't mean they should be held responsible for the outcome of it...it's just like cricket test matches, you don't have to win by points if you can just stay in the game until the time runs out and you get a draw.

Also: "On Saturday, March 5th around 16:00, WEEK 4 and WEEK 5 will be sent.
Those games will end with the whistle of the end of real VI NATIONS tournament on Saturday, March 19th around 23:00*."

The example given above with Ireland and Wales ended on the 13th of March. As per the rule, all WEEK 4 & WEEK 5 matches were given until the 19th to finish, meaning the game between gorehound and donkeysyawn was given to Ireland anyway...so that's not a contention point.

I've not really looked into it enough (I'll do so just now) but if you're saying that because it finished after the 12th or after the match on the 13th that you haven't been given the win, then it is contradictory to the rules and Ireland should be given the win which again as stated before isn't one of the options you listed DJ.

In all fairness, there can be only 2 options allowed. Either Ireland win or France win. I'm going to go through all the games, see which ones finished when and seeing how close they were as DJ also clearly stated that if come end of time, a team was CLEARLY winning, they would be awarded that game as a victory.


*MAJOR EDIT*Ok, I've looked into this a bit more and it seems I was thrown off by the mention of when games ended and delaying finishes when that wasn't the issue AT ALL. The issue is people joining games late.

As per YOUR advices DJ, if a good reason for joining late is given, then they get the wins. If no good reason was given, it becomes a draw. As such, I believe they probably DID give you a good reason and Ireland should win. If I'm wrong about them sending a good reason for not joining however, all games joined late should be counted as a draw.