Rebs vs Yankees [Winners: danryan & Karl_R_Kroenen]

[colton24]

And after that great synopsis by dshedd, it's time to quit hijacking this thread and start letting the people who want to play in this tournament sign up and play. If you want to continue the civil war discussions, please take it to Turtle Soup.

thank you nightstrike couldn't of said it better myself

[anthroguy]

Can't we at least exercise some discretion in team names? "Slave Owners" is obviously racist and intended to offend. The fact that it was allowed to slide speaks volumes about the character of some of the people joining this tournament and those who have approved it. I honestly thought it sounded like a cool tourney when I just saw the name "Rebs vs Yankees," but upon reading the description I had the same thoughts as owenshooter and dshedd. It seems very one sided, praising a deplorable and embarrassing chapter in our nation's history (I recognize this and I was born and raised in the South, where I still live).

If this goes, then what's wrong with a WW2 tourny where the organizer prominently displays the Nazi flag and cries "May the Third Reich rise again!"

[jbrettlip]

Can't we at least exercise some discretion in team names? "Slave Owners" is obviously racist and intended to offend. The fact that it was allowed to slide speaks volumes about the character of some of the people joining this tournament and those who have approved it. I honestly thought it sounded like a cool tourney when I just saw the name "Rebs vs Yankees," but upon reading the description I had the same thoughts as owenshooter and dshedd. It seems very one sided, praising a deplorable and embarrassing chapter in our nation's history (I recognize this and I was born and raised in the South, where I still live).

If this goes, then what's wrong with a WW2 tourny where the organizer prominently displays the Nazi flag and cries "May the Third Reich rise again!"

Because then it would be called the Fourth Reich. It is a numerical sequence.

[anthroguy]

Coming from a "slave owner" team member, that probably is the only part that seems wrong.

[colton24]

Coming from a "slave owner" team member, that probably is the only part that seems wrong.

i dont think they allow the nazi flags... anyways i tried to change his mind but it didnt work

[jbrettlip]

Coming from a "slave owner" team member, that probably is the only part that seems wrong.

without slave owners, abolitionists wouldn't have had anything to do.

Edit: Are you even in this tourney, or are you just trolling the thread?

[anthroguy]

I'm not in the tourny. I was going to join until I realized its character, then I made a comment, agreed with others, made a comparison, and asked a question. I was shocked at what the admin permitted, and felt it necessary to voice what I'm sure many others would say (and already have). I don't think it is trolling to speak out against something that is clearly wrong.

[jbrettlip]

And after that great synopsis by dshedd, it's time to quit hijacking this thread and start letting the people who want to play in this tournament sign up and play. If you want to continue the civil war discussions, please take it to Turtle Soup.

thank you nightstrike couldn't of said it better myself

Then you should read what NS wrote.

[anthroguy]

colton, your tournament is fine to run. Just make sure you don't allow racist team names (even if they are historical).

jbrett, I read what Nightstrike said (anyway, I'm not discussing the Civil War; I've only talked about this tournament). Maybe you should too, instead of childishly insisting on affiliating yourself with people, who by the standards of any modern person, are evil. I'm sincerely sorry if people on CC have bashed things that you hold dear (conservatism, religion, etc. - just going off of something you wrote earlier). You don't deserve that. But it's not an excuse to lower yourself to their level by intentionally (that much is obvious) offending the sensibilities of others.

I want the tournament to proceed as much as anyone. It's a good idea for a tourny. I'm just disappointed that people are using as it an opportunity to offend and I'm surprised that Nightstrike's recommendation regarding team names hasn't been followed (even though he made it twice).

[carnasaur9]

Dowling Guards:


mountainboy965; carnasaur9


Confederacy

[carnasaur9]

I and my teammate decided to join this tourney because the map is fun, and the concept seems fun, FOR A GAME!

However, after reading the posts in this thread one major, massive misunderstanding MUST be addressed, as it will, or at least should, rectify the entire situation.

The argument is, as I understand it, that such a thread is racist and bigoted, based on the assumption that the American Civil War was fought to eliminate slavery. This assumption is erred.

Speaking as an individual with a master's degree in American History, I assure you all that the root cause of the civil war was not slavery, it was in fact, an issue of states' rights. At the heart of the issue was a state's right to succeed from the Union. Among smaller states' rights issues was whether or not a state had the right to allow slavery, but it was a minor issue.

The abolitionists used southern slavery to incite ignorant yankees to take arms in the fight, while if fact, the plight of northern 'indentured servants' was much worse than what any slave experienced on a southern plantation. Uncle Tom's Cabin, written by a woman who reportedly toured the south before writing her novel, was a work of complete fiction. It was no closer to the truth of the state of affairs in the South than Lord of the Flies is to being a true story of juvenile survival on a deserted island. The facts that Harriet Beecher Stowe was an avid abolitionist and that her 'tour of the south' never went any further south than North Carolina speak volumes as to the accuracy of her report. When she met President Lincoln and he met her with the phrase, "So your the lady who started this war", he was NOT complementing her, as so many believe.

All this being said, yes, slavery was evil. However, members of every race known to man have been slaves at some time in world history. And, let us not forget the fact that it was African tribes who sold africans to white men for the slave trade. Further, let's please pay attention to the fact that after the civil war was concluded, and as a result, slavery abolished in the United States, yankees resisted allowing blacks to settle in the north much more violently than what was experienced in the south.

In summary, the Civil War was not fought over slavery. This is a fact. Therefore, to claim a game based on the Civil War is racist and bigoted is ludicrous. While I am not fond of the team name, Slave Owners for personal reasons, I do not attempt to force my will on other members of the community.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

c9

[colton24]

FYI i didnt see any of this in another thread that was completed a year ago and your in

[mountainboy965]

I am enlisting in the Confederacy, along with team-member Carnasaur9. Please add me to the list.

BTW, I would also like to weigh my opinion.

First off, I would like to say that I am related to Abraham Lincoln. I am a direct descendant of his second cousin, which means they both had the same Great-Grand-daddy. Having said that, I've done quite a bit of extensive research on the 16th President, and have learned many things that make me dislike him very much (For example, the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to southern states, not the northern states. What most people don't realize is that when the Emancipation Proclamation was proclaimed, the South was still independent of the North, which means it did absolutely nothing. If Lincoln really wanted to make a difference, he would've made it so that the Proclamation applied to the northern states too. He also had an elaborate plan to transport all African-Americans to another country, since he felt that they were inferior beings. All this is documented history and information, and you may look it up to verify it.)

Having said that, the War was indeed fought for right of the states to succeed. Before the war started, several states in New England even thought about succeeding from the union. In fact, before Lincoln came along, every assumed that states had the right to peacefully succeed (New York City even thought about succeeding). In the end, the Civil War was the most costliest and bloody battle in our history, which saddens me. Good did come from the Civil War, but a lot of bad came from it too, including the Jim Crows laws and many other racist things as a result of the aftermath of the war. I truly believe that if the war didn't happen, such racist laws wouldn't of made it to the books or the courtrooms. Instead, I believe that America would've followed England's example (and every other country in the world. America is the only country in the world where slavery was settled through a war), and abolished slavery and racism peacefully.

[colton24]

im talking to abes Great-Grand-son damn now that is COOL im honored

[mountainboy965]

lol

No, I'm not his great-grandson. What I said was that "I'm a direct descendant of his second cousin."

Abe Lincoln and my ancestor had the same great-granddaddy... I hope that makes sense.

PS, I'm glad you're honored though.