No dice games [REJECTED]

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Postby BaldAdonis on Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:52 pm

Phantom7 wrote:if i could anser you a bit baldadonis. you dont seem to want this no matter what.

When playing with more than one person anything can happen. an example being a game i played not long ago, the board power had missed a build up across the world and got clobbered, only by a coule of armies but it broke the bonus and got the game back on an even keel.

You say answer questions, but I see few


I don't care if you do play it. I don't care if people play forum mafia, or trivia. But winning any of those is different from winning a CC game. It shouldn't go on the same record, and there's already a place for those games. You don't need dice, you aren't using the site's capabilities, you can already play the game by posting your moves: if you want to do it, you can.

When playing with one other person, the game is solvable. How do you expect to reconcile that? Would you block 2 player no dice games? A lot of dice complaints come from 1v1 games, so telling them that they can't play without doesn't help (since players complaining and the dice ad-hoc is the basis for this idea). Plus, every game is eventually a two player game, and from that point on, the outcome is decided.
Or, if you decide to keep 2 player games, what would you do if someone wrote a script to beat the game for them?

I'm not trying to say it wouldn't be a good idea, but what is proposed right now has flaws. The game you want to play can already be played, nothing needs to change, the people who want to play it just have to do it.
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Postby Twill on Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:58 pm

Calm down folks, no need to get so aggressive about it, it's just a suggestion :)
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Postby Fruitcake on Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:44 am

Quite right Twill.

As I have tried to ensure everyone has understood, this is about seeing whether there is a need for such an option. I have tried to avoid getting into depth, after all, there will be much discussion about the rules if this goes further. Many have already pm'd me asking about, and offering ideas on, the rules in play.

Let us hope that those who wish/hope/try to stop it becoming another option, which as a consumer I always believe is good, after all, they have their opinions, can be patient, just as I also hope, that as consumers, we get the option. More options=more choice=better service all round.
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Postby Top Dog on Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:33 pm

I say no, the dice is the WHOLE point of CC.

Another site, another game...
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Postby insomniacdude on Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:14 pm

Fruitcake wrote:Let us hope that those who wish/hope/try to stop it becoming another option, which as a consumer I always believe is good, after all, they have their opinions, can be patient, just as I also hope, that as consumers, we get the option. More options=more choice=better service all round.


But you already have the option.

BaldAdonis wrote:...there's already a place for those games. You don't need dice, you aren't using the site's capabilities, you can already play the game by posting your moves: if you want to do it, you can.
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Postby Fruitcake on Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:20 am

insomniacdude wrote

But you already have the option.

BaldAdonis wrote:
...there's already a place for those games. You don't need dice, you aren't using the site's capabilities, you can already play the game by posting your moves: if you want to do it, you can.


This is not the option we are posing.

I really do not wish to get bogged down with a couple of posters who have an entrenched position on this. Most seem to want to the option. All those who have pm'd me offering advice on rules etc. have all said they would want it as a full option because they feel it is an intrinsic part of the game. It has been pointed out to me that certain game boards and rules on those boards, played on here have little resemblance to the core game. I agree with them. I also agree with them that this option does keep to the spirit of the core game, which is strategy, not dice.

It says on the original board game " A game of strategy and skill" it says on the front page of this very site "stay up all night strategizing their next move". In neither of these cases does it say that dice are at the core of the game.

Why don't we just see who wants it.

For the record, some boards played here have an average of less than 50 games going at any one time. Classic has around 3,000. It is also interesting to note that research has shown me that many more senior ranks specialise in just one board, some on the same boards mentioned previously where the diversity from the core has gone yet further. Do we stop them because so few play on them? No. Why? Because as consumers it is all about choice. There are many who want to play nil dice games, and have points awarded or deducted for winning or losing that style of play. With respect, I cannot see your rationale for saying to these people (who are still in the majority as the votes keep ticking over) that they should go into a corner and play without giving them what they want…your argument that it detracts from the core of the game is spurious in our opinion, however, we do not say to you, we will stop you from playing whatever style or game you wish to play. You, on the other hand do. That is most odd to all of us.

Your negative comments have been noted, everyone will have an opportunity to have input should this go to the next stage.

As Twill said: it's just a suggestion
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Postby Phantom7 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:57 am

Fruitcake said

Why don't we just see who wants it.


Thats right. There is a long way to go in this yet.
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Postby insomniacdude on Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:19 am

Fruitcake wrote:insomniacdude wrote

But you already have the option.

BaldAdonis wrote:
...there's already a place for those games. You don't need dice, you aren't using the site's capabilities, you can already play the game by posting your moves: if you want to do it, you can.


This is not the option we are posing.


Right. It's the option BaldAdonis is posing, which you and anybody else who wished to play this way can utilize.

I really do not wish to get bogged down with a couple of posters who have an entrenched position on this. Most seem to want to the option. All those who have pm'd me offering advice on rules etc. have all said they would want it as a full option because they feel it is an intrinsic part of the game. It has been pointed out to me that certain game boards and rules on those boards, played on here have little resemblance to the core game. I agree with them. I also agree with them that this option does keep to the spirit of the core game, which is strategy, not dice.

It says on the original board game " A game of strategy and skill" it says on the front page of this very site "stay up all night strategizing their next move". In neither of these cases does it say that dice are at the core of the game.

Why don't we just see who wants it.


I see who wants it. And I still say it's a bad idea. I'm not tearing anybody down, but arguing that it shouldn't be added. Do you want this thread to be filled with nothing but yes-men, so that the idea doesn't develop at all into something truly suitable for the site?

For the record, some boards played here have an average of less than 50 games going at any one time. Classic has around 3,000. It is also interesting to note that research has shown me that many more senior ranks specialise in just one board, some on the same boards mentioned previously where the diversity from the core has gone yet further. Do we stop them because so few play on them? No. Why? Because as consumers it is all about choice. There are many who want to play nil dice games, and have points awarded or deducted for winning or losing that style of play. With respect, I cannot see your rationale for saying to these people (who are still in the majority as the votes keep ticking over) that they should go into a corner and play without giving them what they want…your argument that it detracts from the core of the game is spurious in our opinion, however, we do not say to you, we will stop you from playing whatever style or game you wish to play. You, on the other hand do. That is most odd to all of us.


Never said you couldn't play it. My argument is that it shouldn't be ranked with the rest of the site's gameplay. It should run on the same point system, because the gameplay is TOO different. It is unique, interesting, and compelling to be sure, but it does not belong in the point/ranking system. In fact, I quite blatantly agreed that anybody who wants to play this CAN play it - in the games forum, out of the point system currently in place on this site.

Options are a good thing as long as they stay relevant to the site. I simply think this isn't relevant to the site, and no argument produced so far in this thread has been able to convince me. I'm an open-minded guy though, so if it finally pops up I'll be sold. I'm just waiting to be sold.
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Postby Fruitcake on Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:31 pm

insomniacdude wrote


My argument is that it shouldn't be ranked with the rest of the site's gameplay.


And we think it should be, simple as that. As I keep saying, let's wait until this has gone further, or not. Until then, this argument is spurious. I have put it forward as an option, let the members decide.
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Postby KristianMD on Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:14 pm

Simply to put I think that there should be games with no dice.


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Chances of that happening are 1 against 7776 or 0.0128600823%

Look I know you think the dice are a vital part of the game, but unrealistic things happen waaaaay to often. I`m tired of it. I wish the lotery was so easy to win.

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Postby peanut72 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:31 pm

I would be willing to give it a try.
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Postby insomniacdude on Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:54 am

KristianMD wrote:Chances of that happening are 1 against 7776 or 0.0128600823%


Looks like you were that one in 7776.

I played a game over winter break in which I defended with one man. I rolled FIFTEEN 6s in a row.

Believe it or not, but "unrealistic things" happen all the time, especially in a place I like to call reality (which, to the best of my knowledge, is about as unrealistic as it comes, right?)
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Postby Mr_Niels on Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:46 am

the dice keeps killing me. it almost like the dice is my enemy and the other players ally when your from USA.

they shoul definitly change it or something
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Postby alex_white101 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:59 am

well i personally think without dice you might as well go and play cluedo.
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Postby yeti_c on Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:01 pm

alex_white101 wrote:well i personally think without dice you might as well go and play cluedo.


Er Cluedo has Dice in?!

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Postby peanut72 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:42 pm

What would it hurt to give people the choice of that kind of a game? It is not like those against this will be forced to play that way.
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Postby Plutoman on Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:41 pm

peanut72 wrote:What would it hurt to give people the choice of that kind of a game? It is not like those against this will be forced to play that way.


I've always wondered about that too.

Some people are so against it, and they don't even want it as an OPTION for others to play.
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Postby jakejake on Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:47 pm

i dislike the idea, it ruins the game
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Postby Risktaker17 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:00 pm

jakejake wrote:i dislike the idea, it ruins the game


But some people want a style that ruins the game
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Postby spearfish on Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:47 pm

You have the support of me and all the fish I control.
Mess with the best, die like the rest...
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Postby Risktaker17 on Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:55 pm

spearfish wrote:You have the support of me and all the fish I control.


Are you aquaman?
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Postby Fruitcake on Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:37 am

Risktaker17 wrote


But some people want a style that ruins the game


A very good subjective answer.

This is exactly correct....in your eyes. And, I am certain, every voter for the option has no problem with your opinion, just as I do not. There are many things about some of the games here that I think detract from the core of this game...but let's not go back down that road, all these opinions are subjective, surely that is why we have a democratic vote...to find out, first of all, if there is any call for such an option. So far, it seems there is. What is showing steadily, is that many do want this as an OPTION.
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Postby alex_white101 on Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:03 am

yeti_c wrote:
alex_white101 wrote:well i personally think without dice you might as well go and play cluedo.


Er Cluedo has Dice in?!

C.


no i was making the point that risk without dice is like a fry up without bacon and may as well go and play a different game.
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Postby yeti_c on Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:26 am

alex_white101 wrote:
yeti_c wrote:
alex_white101 wrote:well i personally think without dice you might as well go and play cluedo.


Er Cluedo has Dice in?!

C.


no i was making the point that risk without dice is like a fry up without bacon and may as well go and play a different game.


I was making the point the Cluedo actually has Dice in it...

Thus your analogy was flawed...

C.
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Postby alex_white101 on Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:45 am

yeti_c wrote:
alex_white101 wrote:
yeti_c wrote:
alex_white101 wrote:well i personally think without dice you might as well go and play cluedo.


Er Cluedo has Dice in?!

C.


no i was making the point that risk without dice is like a fry up without bacon and may as well go and play a different game.


I was making the point the Cluedo actually has Dice in it...

Thus your analogy was flawed...

C.


IT DOES!?!?! o my god i was so very wrong. i havent ever played cluedo, i thought u just had to guess who did the murder!?! where do dice come into that?!?!
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