NO DICE

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Re: No dice games

Postby jammyjames on Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:43 pm

Fruitcake wrote:Funny that nearly two years after I started this thread it still garners responses.

I still believe it would be a good option, and the original poll showed that the majority thought so as well.


yeah i made a thread an not got directed to yours... so i bumped your up :)

great idea, and it should definately get implemented
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no dice

Postby leonidusofsparta on Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:06 pm

how about no dice as an option-you simply lose 1 for 1
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Re: no dice

Postby kampo on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm

what happens 2v2 ?
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Re: no dice

Postby Fuzzylogic99 on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:14 pm

its a interesting idea I just dont think mechanically it would work.There too many bugsand issues .I also think this has been brought up several times b4 and rejected for the same reasons
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Re: no dice

Postby BrutalBob on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:25 pm

That would wipe out about half the forum complaints.

Would be interesting for a "look" but it possibly wouldnt work well in a two player game as the first one to get a bonus of any type would win.
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Re: no dice

Postby jammyjames on Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:23 am

look around to find previous posts before you make your own..

link to the original topic:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43095
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NO DICE Option - Attacking outcome determined by rules.

Postby jimg7777 on Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:58 pm

How about a NO DICE option ? Let’s just eliminate the luck (good and bad) of the Dice so the best Strategists are more likely to WIN.

Proposed modified rules:

1. Attacking territory MUST have at least 2 more armies than defender, or can't attack.

2. Attacker always wins (makes sense - they have the larger force) but in doing so,
2A. Attacker loses armies equal to what defender had (let's call that #, D). It would be like having VERY
STEADY dice spins i.e for series of 3vs2 attacks it's like it went - split, win2, lose2, split, lose2, win2...
or split, split, split...)
OR 2B. Attacker loses D-1 or D-10% to give attacker some advantage (as current dice odds do.)
OR 2C. Attacker loses D if they had 2 more armies than Defender, D-1 if they had 4 more armies, D-2 if they
had 6 more armies... to create advantage for more overwhelming attacks - more realistic.
OR 2D. Attacker loses # of armies based on what’s most probable using actual Dice Odds…

2E. May need some special processing so that A3vsD1 spins don’t always reward Attacker with win. Maybe a counter so that when you attack 3vs1, you win 1, lose 1, win 1, win 1, lose 1, win 1,… to maintain 2/3 win advantage for Attacker, which is close to a actual dice odds…

Pros: 1- Attacking is pure SKILL. Everyone can accurately predict an entire campaign. Much more likely that
best strategist will win the game.
2 - No more complaints about the dice. (OK they must be random - but weirdly STREAKY at times)

Cons: 1 - Evenly matched players likely to stalemate.
Maybe put a limit on # of rounds and then at that point the most terrs wins with most armies as
tie-breaker.
2 – Some may think it’s a less robust game since no "character-building" by working to overcome bad
dice. But that’s why it’d be an OPTION (like nuclear or fog of war.)

Still lots of luck involved:
1. With initial territory placement.
2. With the timing of spoils, and whether you own spoil territories.
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chose to have no dies.

Postby Thomassaurus on Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:26 pm

I know the dies are random but it does get a little annoying sometimes. How about if you could choose not to have dies in a game,
so as long as long as you had more troops you know you would win, it would just take the same amount from you as it takes from them.
Say you attack 8 to 4 they loose 4 you loose 4 you attack 10 to 3 they loose 3 you loose 3.
Just an idea.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby Fuzzylogic99 on Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:56 pm

been suggested and rejected several times
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby Thomassaurus on Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:03 am

ok
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby Fruitcake on Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:19 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43095&hilit=fruitcake

Not rejected, just allowed to wither on the vine.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby yeti_c on Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:53 am

Fuzzylogic99 wrote:been suggested and rejected several times


Never been rejected.

C.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby billy07 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:18 am

Thomassaurus wrote:I know the dies are random but it does get a little annoying sometimes. How about if you could choose not to have dies in a game,
so as long as long as you had more troops you know you would win, it would just take the same amount from you as it takes from them.
Say you attack 8 to 4 they loose 4 you loose 4 you attack 10 to 3 they loose 3 you loose 3.
Just an idea.



basically the drop would decide the winner in this instance. the forums would then be deluged with threads complaining about random drops and how the 'even' dice didn't give them a chance :lol:
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby AAFitz on Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:37 am

billy07 wrote:
Thomassaurus wrote:I know the dies are random but it does get a little annoying sometimes. How about if you could choose not to have dies in a game,
so as long as long as you had more troops you know you would win, it would just take the same amount from you as it takes from them.
Say you attack 8 to 4 they loose 4 you loose 4 you attack 10 to 3 they loose 3 you loose 3.
Just an idea.



basically the drop would decide the winner in this instance. the forums would then be deluged with threads complaining about random drops and how the 'even' dice didn't give them a chance :lol:


Regretfully, I am forced to agree with you 100%, except the drop wouldnt even matter...only going first would.

The only way to win a game going second in a game, is because of the dice typically. Otherwise, the other player would always be ahead in army count.

And, you would make every 3v3 attack on round one, knocking every army they had down to 1, and taking at least 3 spots from them with 3 deploy, 4 with 4 deploy, 5 with 5 deploy, 6 with 6 deploy, 7 with 7 deploy....12 with 12 deploy...and on their turn, they would be left with 3 to deploy, and little or no 3's to place them on.

It would work without fail. You make a 4, attack a 3 and win, every time. This may seem like a neat idea, but clearly, the dice were included for a reason.

You could devise a way to make this work, but the drop would decide most games, and it would require one attack per round only. Now, pick that setting on the hive. Let me know how it turns out for ya.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby AAFitz on Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:44 am

yeti_c wrote:
Fuzzylogic99 wrote:been suggested and rejected several times


Never been rejected.

C.


Can never be implemented.

that is, without a total reworking of how the game works, with the one exception of speed freestyle, which theoretically gives no advantage to going first.

On that setting alone, it could truly be a complete game of skill, discounting any unlucky/lucky drops. On any sequenial game, player 1 wins, nearly uncontested on 1v1.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby billy07 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:52 am

AAFitz wrote:
billy07 wrote:
Thomassaurus wrote:I know the dies are random but it does get a little annoying sometimes. How about if you could choose not to have dies in a game,
so as long as long as you had more troops you know you would win, it would just take the same amount from you as it takes from them.
Say you attack 8 to 4 they loose 4 you loose 4 you attack 10 to 3 they loose 3 you loose 3.
Just an idea.



basically the drop would decide the winner in this instance. the forums would then be deluged with threads complaining about random drops and how the 'even' dice didn't give them a chance :lol:


Regretfully, I am forced to agree with you 100%, except the drop wouldnt even matter...only going first would.

The only way to win a game going second in a game, is because of the dice typically. Otherwise, the other player would always be ahead in army count.

And, you would make every 3v3 attack on round one, knocking every army they had down to 1, and taking at least 3 spots from them with 3 deploy, 4 with 4 deploy, 5 with 5 deploy, 6 with 6 deploy, 7 with 7 deploy....12 with 12 deploy...and on their turn, they would be left with 3 to deploy, and little or no 3's to place them on.

It would work without fail. You make a 4, attack a 3 and win, every time. This may seem like a neat idea, but clearly, the dice were included for a reason.

You could devise a way to make this work, but the drop would decide most games, and it would require one attack per round only. Now, pick that setting on the hive. Let me know how it turns out for ya.



happily, i am forced to disagree with you 100%. you didn't work out your maths properly. a 4 could not take a 3 as it would lose 3 and not have 1 to carry over. a 6 could only take 1 country as it would become a 2 after it has enterted a new country.

good forting would be a way to win, but like you said, if the first person made everything 1's it becomes a pointless game.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby AAFitz on Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:00 am

billy07 wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
billy07 wrote:
Thomassaurus wrote:I know the dies are random but it does get a little annoying sometimes. How about if you could choose not to have dies in a game,
so as long as long as you had more troops you know you would win, it would just take the same amount from you as it takes from them.
Say you attack 8 to 4 they loose 4 you loose 4 you attack 10 to 3 they loose 3 you loose 3.
Just an idea.



basically the drop would decide the winner in this instance. the forums would then be deluged with threads complaining about random drops and how the 'even' dice didn't give them a chance :lol:


Regretfully, I am forced to agree with you 100%, except the drop wouldnt even matter...only going first would.

The only way to win a game going second in a game, is because of the dice typically. Otherwise, the other player would always be ahead in army count.



And, you would make every 3v3 attack on round one, knocking every army they had down to 1, and taking at least 3 spots from them with 3 deploy, 4 with 4 deploy, 5 with 5 deploy, 6 with 6 deploy, 7 with 7 deploy....12 with 12 deploy...and on their turn, they would be left with 3 to deploy, and little or no 3's to place them on.

It would work without fail. You make a 4, attack a 3 and win, every time. This may seem like a neat idea, but clearly, the dice were included for a reason.

You could devise a way to make this work, but the drop would decide most games, and it would require one attack per round only. Now, pick that setting on the hive. Let me know how it turns out for ya.



happily, i am forced to disagree with you 100%. you didn't work out your maths properly. a 4 could not take a 3 as it would lose 3 and not have 1 to carry over. a 6 could only take 1 country as it would become a 2 after it has enterted a new country.

good forting would be a way to win, but like you said, if the first person made everything 1's it becomes a pointless game.


Your umm... math is wrong....You didnt nearly disagree with me 100%... :lol:

billy07 wrote:i am forced to disagree with you 100%.......but like you said, if the first person made everything 1's it becomes a pointless
:roll:

The math is wrong though. you would need 5 deploys to kill the 3s, not 4's, but for initial drops of many armies the result would be exactly the same. at 12 armies, youd take 6 spots each time, and leave ones nearly everywhere else.

No doubt, a system of limiting attacks, and forting could very well make the game playable, but the game of chess already exists, so you might as well just play that, instead of configuring a new one.

For fun though, it would be fun to see a game made this way. Dice would perhaps still be needed, but instead of deciding the number of kills, perhaps they could decide the number of attacks.

All pointless conjecture though. Its just not even the same game. and would essentially require an entirely new game engine.

I will admit, Id love to give it a shot, and on speed freestyle, with no one going first or second. It would no doubt be an interesting game...though, it could also turn into a game of tic tac toe, theoretically, for an unlimited number of rounds.

the only winning move...is not to play.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby yeti_c on Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:32 am

Whilst I agree that it wouldn't be the best game type for 2 players...

It would work for all other player levels.

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Non-random attacks

Postby misher on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:12 pm

Concise description:
    The dice hate some people, thus unrandomize them. 2 man to take one country with one defending, 8 to take on 7, etc. Or maybe a possible defending bonus. Of course this would be a special type of mapmode...realistic or something?

Specifics:
    Make a gameplay mode where instead of dice just do a my army is 90 yours is 89 90-89 I win and have one man left alive.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
    Shuts people up like me who flame the dice. Have alot deeper strategy/prediction games, diplomacy and other aspects would would increase.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby drunkmonkey on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:47 am

This would make for the most boring games imaginable. Also, although this removes the chance of the dice, the game would then be decided by the drop.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby zoober on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:33 am

While I agree that it would make the games a bit more "boring," it would allow for a pretty big set of people to play to test their strategic abilities versus just how well the dice roll for you that game. This would definitely be something desirable for doubles and things like that where its not just one person on one person. I may be wrong, though I think a lot of people would get a kick out of a battle of the wits and not the dice and cards. I almost feel like there is too much randomness at some points in the game because of the luck of the card and dice system. I find myself personally playing a lot of 'no spoils' games just to remove a factor of randomness from the games. And Yes, I understand that there's more than just luck of the dice in games right now, I was just being sarcastic about it.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby iamkoolerthanu on Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:40 pm

I like this idea, as an option. Some people would find it boring, but if you play it on the right maps, it could be all about skill...Then again games would go on forever, because in reality you would always have the same number of troops as your opponent unless you have cards..
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby zoober on Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:52 am

I would say not necessarily, because then the region bonuses and other bonuses you can obtain would become vastly important. I would like to play this kind of game with no spoils. Then it is a pure strategy game of predicting your opponents moves and strategically placing yourself to have the best opportunity for success.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby iamkoolerthanu on Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:47 pm

iamkoolerthanu wrote:I like this idea, as an option. Some people would find it boring, but if you play it on the right maps, it could be all about skill...Then again games would go on forever, because in reality you would always have the same number of troops as your opponent unless you have cards..

I for some reason was only thinking of 1v1 games when I wrote this post... and forgot about bonuses... what was I thinking?? :D
I think this idea would be great :):)
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby DeadCenter on Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:47 pm

Boring game? That's why it'd be a game OPTION - if you don't like it you could choose not to play it. Just adds a little something for those who do. I think this would be a fine idea to implement.
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