NO DICE

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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby Fruitcake on Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:19 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43095&hilit=fruitcake

Not rejected, just allowed to wither on the vine.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby yeti_c on Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:53 am

Fuzzylogic99 wrote:been suggested and rejected several times


Never been rejected.

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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby billy07 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:18 am

Thomassaurus wrote:I know the dies are random but it does get a little annoying sometimes. How about if you could choose not to have dies in a game,
so as long as long as you had more troops you know you would win, it would just take the same amount from you as it takes from them.
Say you attack 8 to 4 they loose 4 you loose 4 you attack 10 to 3 they loose 3 you loose 3.
Just an idea.



basically the drop would decide the winner in this instance. the forums would then be deluged with threads complaining about random drops and how the 'even' dice didn't give them a chance :lol:
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby AAFitz on Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:37 am

billy07 wrote:
Thomassaurus wrote:I know the dies are random but it does get a little annoying sometimes. How about if you could choose not to have dies in a game,
so as long as long as you had more troops you know you would win, it would just take the same amount from you as it takes from them.
Say you attack 8 to 4 they loose 4 you loose 4 you attack 10 to 3 they loose 3 you loose 3.
Just an idea.



basically the drop would decide the winner in this instance. the forums would then be deluged with threads complaining about random drops and how the 'even' dice didn't give them a chance :lol:


Regretfully, I am forced to agree with you 100%, except the drop wouldnt even matter...only going first would.

The only way to win a game going second in a game, is because of the dice typically. Otherwise, the other player would always be ahead in army count.

And, you would make every 3v3 attack on round one, knocking every army they had down to 1, and taking at least 3 spots from them with 3 deploy, 4 with 4 deploy, 5 with 5 deploy, 6 with 6 deploy, 7 with 7 deploy....12 with 12 deploy...and on their turn, they would be left with 3 to deploy, and little or no 3's to place them on.

It would work without fail. You make a 4, attack a 3 and win, every time. This may seem like a neat idea, but clearly, the dice were included for a reason.

You could devise a way to make this work, but the drop would decide most games, and it would require one attack per round only. Now, pick that setting on the hive. Let me know how it turns out for ya.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby AAFitz on Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:44 am

yeti_c wrote:
Fuzzylogic99 wrote:been suggested and rejected several times


Never been rejected.

C.


Can never be implemented.

that is, without a total reworking of how the game works, with the one exception of speed freestyle, which theoretically gives no advantage to going first.

On that setting alone, it could truly be a complete game of skill, discounting any unlucky/lucky drops. On any sequenial game, player 1 wins, nearly uncontested on 1v1.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby billy07 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:52 am

AAFitz wrote:
billy07 wrote:
Thomassaurus wrote:I know the dies are random but it does get a little annoying sometimes. How about if you could choose not to have dies in a game,
so as long as long as you had more troops you know you would win, it would just take the same amount from you as it takes from them.
Say you attack 8 to 4 they loose 4 you loose 4 you attack 10 to 3 they loose 3 you loose 3.
Just an idea.



basically the drop would decide the winner in this instance. the forums would then be deluged with threads complaining about random drops and how the 'even' dice didn't give them a chance :lol:


Regretfully, I am forced to agree with you 100%, except the drop wouldnt even matter...only going first would.

The only way to win a game going second in a game, is because of the dice typically. Otherwise, the other player would always be ahead in army count.

And, you would make every 3v3 attack on round one, knocking every army they had down to 1, and taking at least 3 spots from them with 3 deploy, 4 with 4 deploy, 5 with 5 deploy, 6 with 6 deploy, 7 with 7 deploy....12 with 12 deploy...and on their turn, they would be left with 3 to deploy, and little or no 3's to place them on.

It would work without fail. You make a 4, attack a 3 and win, every time. This may seem like a neat idea, but clearly, the dice were included for a reason.

You could devise a way to make this work, but the drop would decide most games, and it would require one attack per round only. Now, pick that setting on the hive. Let me know how it turns out for ya.



happily, i am forced to disagree with you 100%. you didn't work out your maths properly. a 4 could not take a 3 as it would lose 3 and not have 1 to carry over. a 6 could only take 1 country as it would become a 2 after it has enterted a new country.

good forting would be a way to win, but like you said, if the first person made everything 1's it becomes a pointless game.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby AAFitz on Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:00 am

billy07 wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
billy07 wrote:
Thomassaurus wrote:I know the dies are random but it does get a little annoying sometimes. How about if you could choose not to have dies in a game,
so as long as long as you had more troops you know you would win, it would just take the same amount from you as it takes from them.
Say you attack 8 to 4 they loose 4 you loose 4 you attack 10 to 3 they loose 3 you loose 3.
Just an idea.



basically the drop would decide the winner in this instance. the forums would then be deluged with threads complaining about random drops and how the 'even' dice didn't give them a chance :lol:


Regretfully, I am forced to agree with you 100%, except the drop wouldnt even matter...only going first would.

The only way to win a game going second in a game, is because of the dice typically. Otherwise, the other player would always be ahead in army count.



And, you would make every 3v3 attack on round one, knocking every army they had down to 1, and taking at least 3 spots from them with 3 deploy, 4 with 4 deploy, 5 with 5 deploy, 6 with 6 deploy, 7 with 7 deploy....12 with 12 deploy...and on their turn, they would be left with 3 to deploy, and little or no 3's to place them on.

It would work without fail. You make a 4, attack a 3 and win, every time. This may seem like a neat idea, but clearly, the dice were included for a reason.

You could devise a way to make this work, but the drop would decide most games, and it would require one attack per round only. Now, pick that setting on the hive. Let me know how it turns out for ya.



happily, i am forced to disagree with you 100%. you didn't work out your maths properly. a 4 could not take a 3 as it would lose 3 and not have 1 to carry over. a 6 could only take 1 country as it would become a 2 after it has enterted a new country.

good forting would be a way to win, but like you said, if the first person made everything 1's it becomes a pointless game.


Your umm... math is wrong....You didnt nearly disagree with me 100%... :lol:

billy07 wrote:i am forced to disagree with you 100%.......but like you said, if the first person made everything 1's it becomes a pointless
:roll:

The math is wrong though. you would need 5 deploys to kill the 3s, not 4's, but for initial drops of many armies the result would be exactly the same. at 12 armies, youd take 6 spots each time, and leave ones nearly everywhere else.

No doubt, a system of limiting attacks, and forting could very well make the game playable, but the game of chess already exists, so you might as well just play that, instead of configuring a new one.

For fun though, it would be fun to see a game made this way. Dice would perhaps still be needed, but instead of deciding the number of kills, perhaps they could decide the number of attacks.

All pointless conjecture though. Its just not even the same game. and would essentially require an entirely new game engine.

I will admit, Id love to give it a shot, and on speed freestyle, with no one going first or second. It would no doubt be an interesting game...though, it could also turn into a game of tic tac toe, theoretically, for an unlimited number of rounds.

the only winning move...is not to play.
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Re: chose to have no dies.

Postby yeti_c on Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:32 am

Whilst I agree that it wouldn't be the best game type for 2 players...

It would work for all other player levels.

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Non-random attacks

Postby misher on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:12 pm

Concise description:
    The dice hate some people, thus unrandomize them. 2 man to take one country with one defending, 8 to take on 7, etc. Or maybe a possible defending bonus. Of course this would be a special type of mapmode...realistic or something?

Specifics:
    Make a gameplay mode where instead of dice just do a my army is 90 yours is 89 90-89 I win and have one man left alive.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
    Shuts people up like me who flame the dice. Have alot deeper strategy/prediction games, diplomacy and other aspects would would increase.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby drunkmonkey on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:47 am

This would make for the most boring games imaginable. Also, although this removes the chance of the dice, the game would then be decided by the drop.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby zoober on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:33 am

While I agree that it would make the games a bit more "boring," it would allow for a pretty big set of people to play to test their strategic abilities versus just how well the dice roll for you that game. This would definitely be something desirable for doubles and things like that where its not just one person on one person. I may be wrong, though I think a lot of people would get a kick out of a battle of the wits and not the dice and cards. I almost feel like there is too much randomness at some points in the game because of the luck of the card and dice system. I find myself personally playing a lot of 'no spoils' games just to remove a factor of randomness from the games. And Yes, I understand that there's more than just luck of the dice in games right now, I was just being sarcastic about it.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby iamkoolerthanu on Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:40 pm

I like this idea, as an option. Some people would find it boring, but if you play it on the right maps, it could be all about skill...Then again games would go on forever, because in reality you would always have the same number of troops as your opponent unless you have cards..
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby zoober on Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:52 am

I would say not necessarily, because then the region bonuses and other bonuses you can obtain would become vastly important. I would like to play this kind of game with no spoils. Then it is a pure strategy game of predicting your opponents moves and strategically placing yourself to have the best opportunity for success.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby iamkoolerthanu on Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:47 pm

iamkoolerthanu wrote:I like this idea, as an option. Some people would find it boring, but if you play it on the right maps, it could be all about skill...Then again games would go on forever, because in reality you would always have the same number of troops as your opponent unless you have cards..

I for some reason was only thinking of 1v1 games when I wrote this post... and forgot about bonuses... what was I thinking?? :D
I think this idea would be great :):)
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby DeadCenter on Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:47 pm

Boring game? That's why it'd be a game OPTION - if you don't like it you could choose not to play it. Just adds a little something for those who do. I think this would be a fine idea to implement.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby iamkoolerthanu on Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:47 am

DeadCenter wrote:Boring game? That's why it'd be a game OPTION - if you don't like it you could choose not to play it. Just adds a little something for those who do. I think this would be a fine idea to implement.

Exactly. Like I find No Spoils boring on certain maps with certain number of players. This suggestion would also be boring in some maps. But in some maps it would be very fun!
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:23 pm

I, for some reason, don't like it. Can't put a nail in the head as to why, but i don't. If i think of the reason, i shall return
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby misher on Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:15 am

Dunno about you guys, but I just had a game where I was going to take antioch for the win...and lost...15 men to 4, which then lead to my defeat.

Sometimes the dice just get bloody annoying/aggravating.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby TheForgivenOne on Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:38 am

Let me ask you this. You expect every single role, at those numbers, 15v4, to win every time? There is a thing called luck and odds. Every once in a while you should lose that attack. Technically, this gamestyle, could never be played on Circus Maximus with no spoils, as you'd just go in a circle forever, until someone deadbeated, as their are no bonuses.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby mattattam on Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:01 am

Yeah I don't this will happen. Takes away the luck factor that makes it interesting. Perhaps a modified version of your proposal could be made where you can't lose a certain amount compared to your opponents stack. I dont see that happening either though.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby misher on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:37 am

If you cared about interesting, luck, and sheer randomness, I don't think you'd play near constant 1v1's with players....1v1 is alot more skill based than most.

Sure non-random would screw 1v1 games, but in a 6 way free for all its fun as hell.

Plus you seem to all be forgetting the fact that people always say shit about the dice, this gets them to shut up once and for all!
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby JoshyBoy on Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:33 pm

I don't like this idea, it detracts from what CC is all about.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby iamkoolerthanu on Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:36 pm

JoshyBoy wrote:I don't like this idea, it detracts from what CC is all about.

Which is why you would not play this OPTION. ;)
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby AgentSmith88 on Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:14 am

misher wrote:If you cared about interesting, luck, and sheer randomness, I don't think you'd play near constant 1v1's with players....1v1 is alot more skill based than most.

Sure non-random would screw 1v1 games, but in a 6 way free for all its fun as hell.

Plus you seem to all be forgetting the fact that people always say shit about the dice, this gets them to shut up once and for all!


Hilarious! :lol:

Maybe if you play freestyle speed or sequential on a few maps like AOR. Any normal map is decided by drop and who goes first 90% of the time.
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Re: Non-random attacks

Postby misher on Tue May 04, 2010 2:56 am

Just to clear it up the reason I said that is on most seq maps or free for me it's basically who gives up and suicides who, sure I win about 30% of them but thats because I factor that in and attempt my best not to piss suiciders off. (sadly my rank has been inspiring more and more of it....)

As for 1v1 drops do play a part, but all in all I think a 2-3 man head start that drops would give you would be inconsequential which is why alot of players can win there 1v1 maps ?80%? of the time. Because they've mastered all the skill they can possible squeeze out of the map.

I've pretty much mastered (at least as much as anyone else has mastered) freestyle and that took me about 2 years, I still learn new things everyday, infact I just had a few realizations about taking territories and leaving 1 man as defense that I'm going to try to implement in my gameplay today.

Theres always room for expansion, while pratice may very well be affected by the law of diminishing marginal returns, these 1v1 players have played the same damn map over and over and I'm damn sure (since I've checked the facts and the logs of alot of 1v1 players) that most of them tend to win most of the time unless they suffer near fatal bad luck with drops.
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