Eliminate Deferred Troops [REJECTED]

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Eliminate Deferred Troops [REJECTED]

Postby Xtra on Wed May 03, 2006 4:25 pm

[MOD EDIT: This topic has been STICKIED for the ease of users and moderators because it is a common, but rejected, suggestion. There are currently no foreseeable plans to eliminate deferred troops or even provide that option (see also, here and here) for reasons that are discussed in this collection of suggestions and responses, particularly darth emperor's recent posts. If you would like to see deferred troops eliminated, please feel free to post here. If you insist on creating a new suggestion, be forewarned that it will end up here eventually. Also see here for option of no deferred troops if first turn is missed.

I would also like to point out that with deferred troops, CC tries to strike a balance between overly harsh punishment of those who miss turns and creating a benefit for those who miss turns. The deferred troop system has evolved from its original incarnation in which deferred troops were allowed to be placed immediately at the beginning of the turn and used in combat. This created far more situations where it was arguable that a person could gain an advantage by missing a turn. Despite the contrary views of some, those situations are now few and far between based on my examinations (including this one) of the games in which such an advantage is alleged to have occurred. Thus, with the current deferred troops system, CC believes it has struck the proper balance between the competing objectives mentioned at the top of this paragraph.

As a side note, the deferred troop system probably won't become more generous either.

Thanks for reading. --agentcom]

I think the double armies if you missed a turn should be taken out. I mean, think about it. It takes maybe 10 minutes to plan and execute your move, then you end your turn. And almost anyone has 10 free minutes to get everything squared away with their game.

So people that hold out not only slow the game down, but they also get more armies when they do take their turn.

I think that if you miss your turn, you lose the armies that you would have gotten if you would have taken it.

Anyone agree?
Last edited by JamesKer1 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Edited title and post and created introduction
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Postby qeee1 on Wed May 03, 2006 4:33 pm

No... if you miss a turn you're at a disadvantage anyway, as you risk losing continent bonuses or being wiped out or whatever. I've missed turns plenty of times, it happens quite easily if you're going away for the weekend or something.

It can be used for strategic purposes... but I don't see a major problem with that. True it slows the game down, but it's rarely that useful anyway.
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Postby Hoff on Wed May 03, 2006 6:11 pm

Its your fault if you miss a turn tho. You shouldnt get rewarded with armies because you missed a turn
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Postby thegrimsleeper on Wed May 03, 2006 6:24 pm

Ok, that's garbage. I'm waiting for my internet to get hooked up at my new apartment. Therefore, I was not able to take a turn in any of my games this last weekend. In one game I missed 2 turns, and might have gotten taken out or gone deadbeat, but instead I got 9 armies and I was able to come back. It wasn't my fault that I couldn't take my turn, and I maintained my standing in the game because of the extra men.
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Postby Jota on Wed May 03, 2006 6:26 pm

Argh. What is with this whole "rewarded with armies" thing? How is being given the armies you would have had anyway a reward? That's like saying the guy who has to get his telephone service reconnected after they shut it off is being "rewarded with phone service" for having missed a payment.
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Postby HighBorn on Wed May 03, 2006 6:39 pm

this topic has been brought up b4.. lacks pretty firm keeping it the way it is..
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Postby Hoff on Wed May 03, 2006 7:26 pm

Jota wrote:That's like saying the guy who has to get his telephone service reconnected after they shut it off is being "rewarded with phone service" for having missed a payment.


umm...no its not. Giving people armies that they missed previous turn only further promotes the problem of holding. If you really care that much, then you will find a way to take your turn. If you miss two turns, no matter if you had an excuse or not. Its not fair to everyone else who was patiently waiting for their turns and actually took them. You deserve to be at a disadvantage if you miss your turns, its not fair to the other people.
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Postby UTGreen on Wed May 03, 2006 7:39 pm

Leaving it the way it is isn't too bad... the only problem I have is that sometimes I forget that someone else skipped a turn and don't defend myself accordingly. It certainly could be use tactically (though I've never done it) because when you put armies out you show what your plans down the road are (or may be) and you give defense time to set up... but if instead of putting down 3 armies and then 3 armies a turn later next to a country you want, you wait and put all 6 down at once, it gives you the ability to make a significant dent into an area by surprise.

My thought would be to have a penalty on the turn before of (let's say) 1/5. So we'd have a formula like this: This turns armies calculated normally + rounded to the nearest #((this turns armies)*(missed turns)*4/5)

So if you missed a turn, and this time you should get 3, you get those three, plus 3*4/5=2.4, rounds to 2 from last turn(s). So you'd get 5 instead of 6. If this time you should get 10, and you missed two turn then you get: 10 + (10*4/5*2)=26 instead of 30. Granted, there's already sometimes an inherent penalty in missing a turn, but I think adding a small army penalty would eliminate anyone from using it as a strategy without being overly punitive to people who do other things with their lives from time to time.
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Postby HighBorn on Wed May 03, 2006 7:46 pm

good idea
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Postby thegrimsleeper on Wed May 03, 2006 8:40 pm

Hoff wrote:Giving people armies that they missed previous turn only further promotes the problem of holding.


No it doesn't. Holding is a different tactic altogether.

If you really care that much, then you will find a way to take your turn. If you miss two turns, no matter if you had an excuse or not. Its not fair to everyone else who was patiently waiting for their turns and actually took them. You deserve to be at a disadvantage if you miss your turns, its not fair to the other people.


You're right. I should just take my 2-year-old on a bus ride across town so I can go to a house with internet and then convince its owners that they should really let me use their computer so I don't inconvenience everyone else on this website. And then I should do it again in the evening, just in case everyone was online that afternoon. And god forbid I forget to repeat that same routine the next day, or else people might have to wait a whole day for me...

Isn't leaving yourself undefended against attacks for a round or two disadvantage enough?
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Postby HighBorn on Wed May 03, 2006 9:08 pm

I agree grim!!!! mine r 8 but i still feel the whole bus cross town thing...lol
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Postby Hoff on Wed May 03, 2006 9:18 pm

UTGreen wrote:My thought would be to have a penalty on the turn before of (let's say) 1/5. So we'd have a formula like this: This turns armies calculated normally + rounded to the nearest #((this turns armies)*(missed turns)*4/5)

So if you missed a turn, and this time you should get 3, you get those three, plus 3*4/5=2.4, rounds to 2 from last turn(s). So you'd get 5 instead of 6. If this time you should get 10, and you missed two turn then you get: 10 + (10*4/5*2)=26 instead of 30. Granted, there's already sometimes an inherent penalty in missing a turn, but I think adding a small army penalty would eliminate anyone from using it as a strategy without being overly punitive to people who do other things with their lives from time to time.


I would be happy if we had some kind of rule like this. Even tho I think it would be better to have someone who missed a turn not to get the bonus. If you missed a turn, then too bad. It doesnt matter if you had an excuse. You still missed a turn and shouldnt get the tactical advantage by getting more armies.

If you know you are going to be away for a few days, then don't join any new games. And no, leaving yourself "undefended" isnt a big enough disadvantage. With the insane amount of deadbeats that we have most of the time it is safe to assume that if someone missed a turn, they will go dead beat. So you would just be wasting troops by attacking you instead of putting them somewhere else where you might need them more. So since most of the time the person goes deadbeat, you move your troops some where else, Then all of a sudden you come back with 2 or 3 times the troops. Thats giving you an advantage for missing turns.

We are trying to promote people to take their turns, its more in the spirit of the game, and makes for a more fun game in general.
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Postby qeee1 on Thu May 04, 2006 8:20 am

If you miss a turn... you aren't "rewarded", or gaining an advantage. There are rare rare situations where missing a turn is good, but that's usually down to the incompetence of other players than anything else.

If someone misses a turn and they're a new recruit then yeah they'll probably deadbeat. But people should assume that players with 20 odd completed games and high scores aren't deadbeats.

We are trying to promote people to take their turns, its more in the spirit of the game, and makes for a more fun game in general.


What's more fun about never being able to miss a day of checking your games without being severely punished? That's just destructive and causes a clash between real life priorities and CC priorities. We can't all always be online. Also the spirit of the site is that it's for casual players and "hardcore" players. We don't want to frighten away the "casuals".

And as for not joining games when you know you can't play, that doesn't work because:
1. Games sometimes last a lot longer than you think
2. Things come up that we have no control over.
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Just a thought...

Postby B Mac Attack on Sat May 20, 2006 2:10 am

Ok, so maybe it's just me, but I don't really like the army multiplier for when a player misses a turn. I think that if you do miss a turn, it's your own fault and you shouldn't be rewarded with those extra armies on your next turn. I hate coming back to a game where someone has missed a turn just to see that their armies have been multiplied by 2 or sometimes 3. Other people's thoughts?
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Postby Derwiddle on Sat May 20, 2006 4:12 am

I'd a agree with that. It is really annoying when you're toiling and working on your strategy - then some twerp (lol) who has skipped turns, forcing everyone to wait, suddenly deploys a whole pile of armies!

Besides being annoying, in real life - a commander wouldn't have the option of just sitting back and doing nothing, then deploying a huge army cause he didn't do anything for the past months.

Arg... :roll:
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Eliminate Deferred Troops [REJECTED]

Postby B Mac Attack on Mon May 22, 2006 11:57 pm

Concise description:
  • Get rid of "deferred" troops after missing a turn.

Specifics/Details:
  • See above

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • When somebody misses a turn, he/she misses a turn and shouldn't get troops for that. It's really unfair, because it often turns the game in favor of whoever missed a turn.
Last edited by agentcom on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:32 pm, edited 12 times in total.
Reason: Edited title and post and created introduction
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Postby zip_disk on Tue May 23, 2006 1:15 am

I'll repost this then


pevanelagas wrote:Missing turns is a very useful strategy, for A. staying alive..

B. breaking past Barriers and into continents
C. getting continents


Overall I disagree, its fine the way it is. Discussing your points.

A. I have to assume you're joking here because that's totally wrong, getting no armies is better than getting a minimum of 3?
B & C. Not really true either, basically you could do the same thing by deploying your armies and not attacking.

The only real way you get an advantage is the element of surprise and fielding a large stack. Sudden attacks may seem more powerful but that's only perception-wise mainly by lulling an opponent into a false sense of safety or implying you're weak to convince them not to guard a location (or spend armies attacking). Otherwise the math remains at best the same as deploying and not attacking.

Not deploying though means you're more vulnerable with no way to gain (or regain) territory or armies in the meantime. The army bonuses are also only calculated when you finally play again.
Say you have 12 territories and Oceania for 6 bonus armies a turn. Not playing for 1 turn would yield you 12 armies the next time if noone attacked you during that time period

(4 + 2) * 2 = 12

However if someone came along during this time and took Indonesia from you, you'd only get 6 for the 2 turn period. Even if you had possesion of the territory during the missed turn and would've gotten 6 then if you had deployed.

(3 + 0) * 2 = 6



Plus you lose the chances for a card. In escalating card games this might be a strategy but for Flat Rate card games there's no point, you're only hurting yourself.
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Postby Hoff on Tue May 23, 2006 1:43 am

This has been discussed a million times. I dont think you should get the armies you missed back, others do. Nothing is probably going to change, because there is not clean cut majority who favors one view or the other.
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Should you get your men multiplied for missing a turn?

Postby tonywalrus on Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:53 pm

This is one of the rules in this game that really annoys me, in fact it is the only rule that annoys me. If you miss a turn you should not get your men multiplied by the rounds you miss. I have waited 7 days on someone who deadbeat for two round only to see him have his men multiplied by three, capture a continent and damage the one I was holding . I know some people view this as a legitimate tactic, to me it is simply gamesmanship. Miss a turn, fine but miss the men as well.
P.S. I have missed turns for various reasons in some of the games I have played, it would not bother me if I had to live by this rule.
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Postby wicked on Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:09 pm

As someone who has to miss turns periodically, I love this rule! If you're playing against someone who has missed a turn, you better plan accordingly to defend against their double armies.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:11 pm

Considering I was stuck in the hopsital for a few days, it was nice to have my armies multiplied!


--Andy
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Postby wicked on Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:20 pm

breaking your arm was obviously just a ploy to get your armies multiplied! :P
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Postby Hoff on Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:35 pm

I hate this rule too, you should not get your armies multiplied. But this has been argued about 100 times, so there really is no point anymore
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Postby wicked on Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:50 pm

correction. 101.
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Postby eye84free on Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:21 pm

its good and its bad....if ur someone who act. missed a turn because of unforseen circ. then its good...but if u do it out of advantage...then its bad...how would u feel if some one did it to u cause....just because ur woooooooppppppen there a$$ and its the only way for them to try and win. thats not fair......
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