Eliminate Deferred Troops [REJECTED]

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Re: missing turns

Postby Evil Semp on Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:04 am

greenoaks wrote:as for the cards if they come back and cash then they could have cashed earlier. you have the advantage by getting 2 extra turns to prepare for them


You forgot to mention that if they have a set after missing two turns they would not have received any cards for their missed turns, which is a disadvantage also.
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Re: missing turns

Postby Queen_Herpes on Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:00 am

Seems like lots of players are concerned about the missed turn benefit. Perhaps someone in Canada could take note.
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Re: missing turns

Postby TheForgivenOne on Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:01 am

Queen_Herpes wrote:Seems like lots of players are concerned about the missed turn benefit. Perhaps someone in Canada could take note.


Also seems like more players explaining how it is not a benefit.
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Re: missing turns

Postby Woodruff on Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:32 am

Queen_Herpes wrote:Seems like lots of players are concerned about the missed turn benefit. Perhaps someone in Canada could take note.


Other than the fact that it's not a benefit, you mean?
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Re: missing turns

Postby Darwins_Bane on Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:16 pm

Sorry, there are several disadvantages as it is when missing a turn. I don't think that the deferred armies will change anytime soon. On another note, if you break his bonus, then he wont receive the deferred troops for it when his next turn rolls around. Moving torejected.
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Casual games and missed turns

Postby 69er on Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:23 pm

Please put an end to this rediculous reward. If a player signs up to play a casual game, and can't take his/her turn within 24 hours they should not be rewarded deferred troops. This has now become a strategy for some players! It needs to stop!
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Re: Casual games and missed turns

Postby pascalleke on Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:40 pm

69er wrote:Please put an end to this rediculous reward. If a player signs up to play a casual game, and can't take his/her turn within 24 hours they should not be rewarded deferred troops. This has now become a strategy for some players! It needs to stop!

=D> i agree :!:
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Re: Casual games and missed turns

Postby 40kguy on Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:06 pm

why? i love when they miss there turns in my games because i play city mougal and you dont get you auto deploys when they miss there turns so they lose at least 50 troops.
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Re: Casual games and missed turns

Postby squishyg on Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:15 pm

It's not really a reward, in games with auto deploy or lots of territories you usually end up losing out on troops when you miss a turn. I miss the occassional turn and have only rarely benefited from the deferred troops.
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Re: Casual games and missed turns

Postby owenshooter on Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:41 pm

69er wrote:Please put an end to this rediculous reward. If a player signs up to play a casual game, and can't take his/her turn within 24 hours they should not be rewarded deferred troops. This has now become a strategy for some players! It needs to stop!

maybe this would do better in the suggestions forum...-the black jesus
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Re: Casual games and missed turns

Postby Woodruff on Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:42 pm

69er wrote:Please put an end to this rediculous reward. If a player signs up to play a casual game, and can't take his/her turn within 24 hours they should not be rewarded deferred troops. This has now become a strategy for some players! It needs to stop!


If players are using this as a "strategy", they are fools. It is a failed strategy which simply will lose far more often than it wins. You simply need to take advantage of their absence, so that it is even more of a disadvantage.
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Re: Casual games and missed turns

Postby rdsrds2120 on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:12 am

69er wrote:Please put an end to this rediculous reward. If a player signs up to play a casual game, and can't take his/her turn within 24 hours they should not be rewarded deferred troops. This has now become a strategy for some players! It needs to stop!


Sorry to say, this has been suggested numerous times. It is not going to go away anytime soon.

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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:29 am

Merged threads relating to Deferred troops altogether.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Queen_Herpes on Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:58 am

In one v one games the deferred troop bonus does not exist. If anything, it delays the inevitable. However, I still can see a few situations where one-v-one games a player could use the missed turn strategy to their benefit.

In multi player games, the missed turn benefit can be massive in escalating games. It can also be beneficial in speed games.

Another benefit is that the armies (while withheld for one round) cannot be attacked and therefore cannot be "lost." The dice will not affect those armies.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby macbone on Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:40 am

Missing a turn is punitive enough. I love it when opponents miss turns, especially in team games. Missing a turn disadvantages them further. True, armies off the board can't be attacked, but they can't be used on the attack that turn, either, make a player lose a tempo.

Missing a turn in Escalating can be harmful, especially since it means losing a chance to take a card. If players are missing turns because they think doing so will help them win the game, then by all means, please keep the policy as it is. =)
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Queen_Herpes on Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:19 pm

macbone wrote:Missing a turn is punitive enough. I love it when opponents miss turns, especially in team games. Missing a turn disadvantages them further. True, armies off the board can't be attacked, but they can't be used on the attack that turn, either, make a player lose a tempo.

Missing a turn in Escalating can be harmful, especially since it means losing a chance to take a card. If players are missing turns because they think doing so will help them win the game, then by all means, please keep the policy as it is. =)


What if it is a quads game on a small map with no spoils? Every player gets 3 armies per turn. If landlocked behind your own teammates, you could miss your turns and wait to drop 9 armies on one of your teammates on the front lines after you missed two turns. Could be beneficial. I'm just saying.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby TheForgivenOne on Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:41 pm

Queen_Herpes wrote:
macbone wrote:Missing a turn is punitive enough. I love it when opponents miss turns, especially in team games. Missing a turn disadvantages them further. True, armies off the board can't be attacked, but they can't be used on the attack that turn, either, make a player lose a tempo.

Missing a turn in Escalating can be harmful, especially since it means losing a chance to take a card. If players are missing turns because they think doing so will help them win the game, then by all means, please keep the policy as it is. =)


What if it is a quads game on a small map with no spoils? Every player gets 3 armies per turn. If landlocked behind your own teammates, you could miss your turns and wait to drop 9 armies on one of your teammates on the front lines after you missed two turns. Could be beneficial. I'm just saying.


Yeah, what happens with any map that uses Auto Deploy? Feudal War/Epic, Lunar, AoR1/2/3, The Cupcake on Conquerman, Das Schloss. I could go on. You are already put at a disadvantage because you don't get Auto deploy troops as deferred, they are gone.

Can also combat missing turns by just deploying and ending their turn. Nothing really different.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:33 pm

THE DEBATE RAGES ON, I see...
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Queen_Herpes on Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:14 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:
macbone wrote:Missing a turn is punitive enough. I love it when opponents miss turns, especially in team games. Missing a turn disadvantages them further. True, armies off the board can't be attacked, but they can't be used on the attack that turn, either, make a player lose a tempo.

Missing a turn in Escalating can be harmful, especially since it means losing a chance to take a card. If players are missing turns because they think doing so will help them win the game, then by all means, please keep the policy as it is. =)


What if it is a quads game on a small map with no spoils? Every player gets 3 armies per turn. If landlocked behind your own teammates, you could miss your turns and wait to drop 9 armies on one of your teammates on the front lines after you missed two turns. Could be beneficial. I'm just saying.


Yeah, what happens with any map that uses Auto Deploy? Feudal War/Epic, Lunar, AoR1/2/3, The Cupcake on Conquerman, Das Schloss. I could go on. You are already put at a disadvantage because you don't get Auto deploy troops as deferred, they are gone.


...and your point is? The are certainly situations where missing turns is not beneficial, but those that exist do not counter the reality that there exist settings and maps where there is a benefit to missing the turns.

TFO wrote:Can also combat missing turns by just deploying and ending their turn. Nothing really different.


Nothing really different? You are completely wrong. They do not deploy and end their turn because there are strategic benefits missing the turn in a variety of situations with a variety of settings on a variety of maps.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Darwins_Bane on Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:57 am

Queen_Herpes wrote:Nothing really different? You are completely wrong. They do not deploy and end their turn because there are strategic benefits missing the turn in a variety of situations with a variety of settings on a variety of maps.


Since you are such a big proponent of this, could you provide 5 concrete situations where missing a turn gives an advantage.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:22 am

Queen_Herpes wrote:
TFO wrote:Can also combat missing turns by just deploying and ending their turn. Nothing really different.


Nothing really different? You are completely wrong. They do not deploy and end their turn because there are strategic benefits missing the turn in a variety of situations with a variety of settings on a variety of maps.


How so? You and your teammates all deploy on the frontline for 2 turns, he misses two then deploys the deferred on their front line.

And while you are missing you can easily be eliminated. Poof, no more troops coming from them.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Queen_Herpes on Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:38 pm

Darwins_Bane wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:Nothing really different? You are completely wrong. They do not deploy and end their turn because there are strategic benefits missing the turn in a variety of situations with a variety of settings on a variety of maps.


Since you are such a big proponent of this, could you provide 5 concrete situations where missing a turn gives an advantage.


I only need to supply one. I'll do my best to come up with more, but you, DB, and you, TFO, seem to be asking me to describe the blackness of the iron pot.

ex.1.
Any team game on Classic, but lets look at a quads game. Player one on Team One has an army in Sydney, while his
teammate(s) dropped and hold Perth, Port Moresby, Jakarta, Bangkok, Mumbai, Hong Kong in a spattering that would give none of his teammates the opportunity to hold the Oceania bonus. Essentially, Player one's team has a lock on the Oceania Bonus, but it would require attacking all three teammates for one of those teammates to garner the bonus. IMHO, Team One would be better focused upon the enemy and other bonuses. The army in Sydney is sufficiently insulated from attack from Team Two such that Player one wouldn't realistically feel threatened that he could/would be taken out.
Still in this example:
Scenario a.
Escalating Spoils: Player One attacks with his forward units (those not locked in Sydney) and gains one territ per turn, earning one spoil per turn until he has 5 cards. Everyone else in the game also earns 5 cards, but, remember, player one went first. Being a smart player one, he knows that if he takes his turn he will receive the least reward when cashing his spoils if he is to cash first. So, smartly, he intentionally misses his turn. Perhaps Playa 1 on Team 2 is smart and misses his turn as well, but lets pretend that Playa 1, Team 2 cashes. Automatically, Player One, Team one is in a better position. Certainly, he risks losing his cards to elimination, but his teammates will have a better shot at grabbing his cards (seeing as Player One is locked in the corner in Sydney behind his teammates.) Certainly, this could be considered a deferred card bonus and not a deferred troop bonus. However, the deferred troops certainly aren't a negative. Player One still gets to drop those extra 3 (or more) troops wherever he wishes upon the board at the end of his turn.
Scenario b.
Escalating Spoils: Player One gets the five cards and for whatever reason, not everyone else lands 5 cards. Player One then bides his time. Misses one turn to see what happens, misses a second turn to see what happens, and upon his third turn, player one has the choice to miss his third turn, and turn over his five cards and all of his territories to one of his teammates. Here, now, you could argue that the end benefit would be to turn over cards and territoried armies to a teammate. You could argue that this is not a deferred troop bonus, and that the player (and his team) lost those troops in the deferral because player one missed all three turns. However, on each of those turns, player one could use the strategy of missing the turn and wait to play to defer those troops, or wait to pass his boarded troops, territories, and cards over to a teammate. As such, player one (and his team) benefit from the knowledge that those troops are there, if necessary.

I have other ideas popping into my head and will post them as I have time. [FFA games, 1v1]

I do concede that in many situations, deferred troops are not a bonus on the AOR maps and similar maps like the Feudals where there are auto-deploys.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Queen_Herpes wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:
macbone wrote:Missing a turn is punitive enough. I love it when opponents miss turns, especially in team games. Missing a turn disadvantages them further. True, armies off the board can't be attacked, but they can't be used on the attack that turn, either, make a player lose a tempo.

Missing a turn in Escalating can be harmful, especially since it means losing a chance to take a card. If players are missing turns because they think doing so will help them win the game, then by all means, please keep the policy as it is. =)


What if it is a quads game on a small map with no spoils? Every player gets 3 armies per turn. If landlocked behind your own teammates, you could miss your turns and wait to drop 9 armies on one of your teammates on the front lines after you missed two turns. Could be beneficial. I'm just saying.


Yeah, what happens with any map that uses Auto Deploy? Feudal War/Epic, Lunar, AoR1/2/3, The Cupcake on Conquerman, Das Schloss. I could go on. You are already put at a disadvantage because you don't get Auto deploy troops as deferred, they are gone.


...and your point is? The are certainly situations where missing turns is not beneficial, but those that exist do not counter the reality that there exist settings and maps where there is a benefit to missing the turns.


Wait, wait, wait...you're decrying his use of "certain situations" when his response was directly to your own use of "certain situations"?

Queen_Herpes wrote:
TFO wrote:Can also combat missing turns by just deploying and ending their turn. Nothing really different.

Nothing really different? You are completely wrong. They do not deploy and end their turn because there are strategic benefits missing the turn in a variety of situations with a variety of settings on a variety of maps.


There are some very few circumstances when it can possibly be a winning strategy. They are very few.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby stahrgazer on Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:39 am

CC says you should take your turns (no deadbeat rule.)

CC allows players to designate substitutes (and does not prevent anyone from having a regular sub who checks any games just in case.)

Eliminating deferred troops just makes it fair for the players who had to wait the additional portion of the round for a player who didn't play... and would be consistent with ANY OTHER GAME where, if you skip, you do NOT get the benefit of receiving any portion of what you would have received if you had not skipped.

Would it suck to have an emergency that caused you to miss your turn? Yes. But since CC allows ways around totally missing a turn, CC's rules should not be designed to benefit you for missing your turn despite those methods that can prevent it.

In other words: I support the OP's request to eliminate all deferred troops, whether the miss was intentional or not.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby greenoaks on Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:54 am

stahrgazer wrote:Eliminating deferred troops just makes it fair for the players who had to wait the additional portion of the round for a player who didn't play... and would be consistent with ANY OTHER GAME where, if you skip, you do NOT get the benefit of receiving any portion of what you would have received if you had not skipped.

i play on another Risk-like gaming site and they also give you deferred troops so for me allowing deferred troops IS consistent with EVERY OTHER GAME site that i know
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