Eliminate Deferred Troops [REJECTED]

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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby darth emperor on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:51 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
ManBungalow wrote:Is there still a loophole where you start a manual freestyle 1 vs 1 game on City Mogul and miss the deployment round in order to go first in the second round ?

That's considered abuse if done frequently. I remember a case where the person was warned/noted/something or other stating that it was against the rules.


Correct.

And even if still is there, this shouldn't mean that you have to delete the deferred troops, you should arrenge the problem of that map.

Robert The Red wrote:I would admit that the advantages of missing a turn are small but they are there more often than not in team games, for example quads where the front line are 4 players against 2 the other 2 players playing a supporting roll, the team with 4 on the front line have to guess where to place troops if the other 2 have missed a turn they can then deploy a large stack on any given border if they had played there turn you would be able to counter fairly, it is difficult to discribe the situation without being in a live game.

Yes, I understand that situation, but again they have to wait to the next turn to use them, so the opponent team has a full turn to counter-attack that, its easy, deploy there, make reinforces there, and even if you don't make any reinforcment there, by just deploying 1 full round you have counter-assault that, its as simple as team comunication, any decent team can arrenge that


Robert The Red wrote:But for me the main reason for changing the missed turn rule so that troops are not carried forward to the next go is the the motivation not to miss your go, it would encourage more regular play, and reduce the missed turn stats, and i do not believe it would be detrimental to the casual nature of the conquer club community, at the very least having the missed turn rule as part of game settings so people would be free to choose whether they wanted to play a a game with the enhanced missed rule changes. i see no reason why this could not be tried for a given period to see if it proved popular.

No, not at all... people (who knows how to play) don't miss the turn in order to get deffered troops, that's not the motivation. I'll assume you didn't read my previous post, because then you'll see that the motivations are different, and taking out the defered troops won't make any difference.

And it seems good to make as many options as possible, but this is not always truth and less in this case
-In many games, people don't miss turn, so making this option is useless for these games.
-More options, means more to code and more chances that there are bugs, and take more time in solve an error. Therefore when they make an option they should do of something that can be more useful.

So either you leave the deffered armies as its, or take them our, or another option, but don't make an option when creating a game for this. (In my opinion, better to leave it as it is now.
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby eddie2 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:46 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
ManBungalow wrote:Is there still a loophole where you start a manual freestyle 1 vs 1 game on City Mogul and miss the deployment round in order to go first in the second round ?

That's considered abuse if done frequently. I remember a case where the person was warned/noted/something or other stating that it was against the rules.


Correct.


yep what is also correct is that in nuclear spoils players who purposely don't end turn should also be warned noted
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby Robert The Red on Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:21 pm

Robert The Red wrote:I would admit that the advantages of missing a turn are small but they are there more often than not in team games, for example quads where the front line are 4 players against 2 the other 2 players playing a supporting roll, the team with 4 on the front line have to guess where to place troops if the other 2 have missed a turn they can then deploy a large stack on any given border if they had played there turn you would be able to counter fairly, it is difficult to discribe the situation without being in a live game.

Yes, I understand that situation, but again they have to wait to the next turn to use them, so the opponent team has a full turn to counter-attack that, its easy, deploy there, make reinforces there, and even if you don't make any reinforcment there, by just deploying 1 full round you have counter-assault that, its as simple as team comunication, any decent team can arrenge that.


I disagree and like many others have seen it used as an advantage.
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby Robert The Red on Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:30 pm

Robert The Red wrote:But for me the main reason for changing the missed turn rule so that troops are not carried forward to the next go is the the motivation not to miss your go, it would encourage more regular play, and reduce the missed turn stats, and i do not believe it would be detrimental to the casual nature of the conquer club community, at the very least having the missed turn rule as part of game settings so people would be free to choose whether they wanted to play a a game with the enhanced missed rule changes. i see no reason why this could not be tried for a given period to see if it proved popular.



No, not at all... people (who knows how to play) don't miss the turn in order to get deffered troops, that's not the motivation. I'll assume you didn't read my previous post, because then you'll see that the motivations are different, and taking out the defered troops won't make any difference.


First of all not everyone on here is how you put it
(who knows how to play)
. and i i am not saying they are motivated to miss there turn to get defered troops but that will be motivated to take there turn if the troops are not defered.

as for the computer coding to add it as a game option in the settings, that i am not qualified to give an opinion, but i sure some reading this will. though having seen and used chatglove and bob, i am sure the coding for a missed turn rule option would be no more complicated to do.

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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby darth emperor on Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:37 pm

Robert The Red wrote:
Robert The Red wrote:I would admit that the advantages of missing a turn are small but they are there more often than not in team games, for example quads where the front line are 4 players against 2 the other 2 players playing a supporting roll, the team with 4 on the front line have to guess where to place troops if the other 2 have missed a turn they can then deploy a large stack on any given border if they had played there turn you would be able to counter fairly, it is difficult to discribe the situation without being in a live game.

Yes, I understand that situation, but again they have to wait to the next turn to use them, so the opponent team has a full turn to counter-attack that, its easy, deploy there, make reinforces there, and even if you don't make any reinforcment there, by just deploying 1 full round you have counter-assault that, its as simple as team comunication, any decent team can arrenge that.


I disagree and like many others have seen it used as an advantage.


Really, I would want to see that... anytime (when I get free slots) let's make a 4v4 and use this strategy of missing turn. I assure you, that you won't get any advantage and even you'll get disadvantage

Robert The Red wrote:
Robert The Red wrote:But for me the main reason for changing the missed turn rule so that troops are not carried forward to the next go is the the motivation not to miss your go, it would encourage more regular play, and reduce the missed turn stats, and i do not believe it would be detrimental to the casual nature of the conquer club community, at the very least having the missed turn rule as part of game settings so people would be free to choose whether they wanted to play a a game with the enhanced missed rule changes. i see no reason why this could not be tried for a given period to see if it proved popular.



No, not at all... people (who knows how to play) don't miss the turn in order to get deffered troops, that's not the motivation. I'll assume you didn't read my previous post, because then you'll see that the motivations are different, and taking out the defered troops won't make any difference.


First of all not everyone on here is how you put it
(who knows how to play)
. and i i am not saying they are motivated to miss there turn to get defered troops but that will be motivated to take there turn if the troops are not defered.


When I say who knows to play, I don't mean he has to be a master, but he has to be average, even if someone misses his turn, an average opponent will be able to get an advantage from there. And I'm telling you, that in most cases where you can get an advantage by missing turn they won't care if they get deffered turns (as explained with examples in my first post)


Robert The Red wrote:as for the computer coding to add it as a game option in the settings, that i am not qualified to give an opinion, but i sure some reading this will. though having seen and used chatglove and bob, i am sure the coding for a missed turn rule option would be no more complicated to do.

BOB and chatglove are user-coded, what you are asking for an option is something that the users can't do, but only the admin. So you can't compare them.
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby scotthansen1 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:48 am

Robert The Red wrote:I think it is wrong that someone who misses a turn should get the reinforcements on their following turn, I believe that some use this tacticaly and i think that it would motivate people not to miss their turns.

Robert The Red

I totally agree Im tired of waiting to play just so they get double the troops and break open or even out a close game. This seems to be the new stategy now , im in a game right now where the player has missed 8 times, ( 8 days ) thats just stupid and now he shows up with a ton of troops and its game over
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby Woodruff on Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:00 pm

scotthansen1 wrote:
Robert The Red wrote:I think it is wrong that someone who misses a turn should get the reinforcements on their following turn, I believe that some use this tacticaly and i think that it would motivate people not to miss their turns.

Robert The Red

I totally agree Im tired of waiting to play just so they get double the troops and break open or even out a close game. This seems to be the new stategy now , im in a game right now where the player has missed 8 times, ( 8 days ) thats just stupid and now he shows up with a ton of troops and its game over


If he's missed that many turns and you haven't taken advantage of his having missed that many turns, the fault is yours, not theirs. When someone misses a turn, it's only an advantage to them if you ALLOW it to be an advantage to them. Don't allow it. Make them pay for missing.
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby agentcom on Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:24 pm

Woodruff wrote:darth emperor has won this thread with his precisely correct statements.


Completely agree. I didn't read his entire post, but I can tell that he's on the right track. I've made the same points many times, though not in as much detail.
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby Robert The Red on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:44 pm

agentcom wrote:
Woodruff wrote:darth emperor has won this thread with his precisely correct statements.


Completely agree. I didn't read his entire post, but I can tell that he's on the right track. I've made the same points many times, though not in as much detail.



Darth Vader is not right. particulary re the motivation to play. I am not saying People are more motivated to miss there turn for double the spoils on the next turn, even though in ocaisional circumstances it can have an advantage and like others, i have seen that.

what I am saying to be clear is : if people knew they were not going to get their spoils defered, they would make a bit more effort to take their turn. It would do nothing to alter the casual nature of the game. It could only have a positive effect. It would not take much coding and would be a simple thing to try.

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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby agentcom on Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:17 pm

And I think people here are saying that there already is a good enough punishment for the missed turn. The balance has been properly struck. If you kicked players out of any game once they missed a single turn, you would likewise increase the incentive for taking turns. However, most players would probably not like this rule, especially those fremiums just starting out that the site hopes will someday buy premium. So, if you want to make this a question about how much disincentive should be provided for missed turns, then simply reinterpret our answers as "we're pretty much at the desired level."
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby nameless nemesis on Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:31 am

if missing your turn is considered legitimate stragedy maybe there could be a SKIP GO button so that people dont have to wait 24hrs this would especially be a benefit to new freemium players
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby TheForgivenOne on Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:38 am

Robert The Red wrote:
Robert The Red wrote:I would admit that the advantages of missing a turn are small but they are there more often than not in team games, for example quads where the front line are 4 players against 2 the other 2 players playing a supporting roll, the team with 4 on the front line have to guess where to place troops if the other 2 have missed a turn they can then deploy a large stack on any given border if they had played there turn you would be able to counter fairly, it is difficult to discribe the situation without being in a live game.

Yes, I understand that situation, but again they have to wait to the next turn to use them, so the opponent team has a full turn to counter-attack that, its easy, deploy there, make reinforces there, and even if you don't make any reinforcment there, by just deploying 1 full round you have counter-assault that, its as simple as team comunication, any decent team can arrenge that.


I disagree and like many others have seen it used as an advantage.


I have been in MANY games where users have missed a turn, and basically lost all chances to get back into a game.

You don't have a chance to defend your bonus, regain a bonus, break a bonus, etc. Heck, a few times I've been away from internet for longer then I thought, and missed a turn in 30 separate games. In each of those games, I lost a lot of ground. To me, missing a turn, is EXACTLY the same as starting your turn, deploying your troops, then ending without reinforcement.

A few situations may, MAY give you an advantage, but a majority of the time, all it does is hurt you. Trust me.
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby hmsps on Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:39 am

I think because of some players limited knowledge due to lack of games etc, they have no clue how damaging a missed turn can be, example Speed Game 11364981, fairly even game, yellow misses a turn, gets his 5 deffered and hey presto game over. So please don't post your bull to say it doesnt matter as it does, if you want it to be a casual game make the turns weekly or monthly then a turn doesnt matter. I know it wont be implemented as it doesnt bring any money to the cash cow but lets just implement the important stuff like changing colours. No wonder lots of people think this site is going to the dogs!!
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby agentcom on Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:25 pm

hmsps wrote:I think because of some players limited knowledge due to lack of games etc, they have no clue how damaging a missed turn can be, example Speed Game 11364981, fairly even game, yellow misses a turn, gets his 5 deffered and hey presto game over. So please don't post your bull to say it doesnt matter as it does, if you want it to be a casual game make the turns weekly or monthly then a turn doesnt matter. I know it wont be implemented as it doesnt bring any money to the cash cow but lets just implement the important stuff like changing colours. No wonder lots of people think this site is going to the dogs!!


lol

cuz you would've been so much better off it yellow had received his 5 troops the turn before ... rrriiiiigggghhhhtt.

For those of you that are wondering. At the point of yellow's missed turn:

red (hmsps) - 9 regions
green - 8 regions

vs.

blue - 10 regions
yellow - 13 regions and Oceania well protected.

So, yellow would have actually received 6 troops instead of 5 had he taken his turn, green wouldn't have been able to make a run at South America and the result would have been the same.

This is a great example of why the deferred troops system works. You can miss a turn and it doesn't change the outcome of the game too much, but it does give you a slight disadvantage. Some of the people on this site seem to think that a missed turn should equal an automatic loss, even in a case like this where the missing team has gained a significant lead.

This is one of the worst examples I've ever seen of someone trying to say that a game's outcomes was changed by deferred troops. Changed from what it would have been like if yellow didn't get troops at all? OK, yeah. But changed from what it would have been if yellow took his turn? Absolutely not.
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Eliminate deferred troops for missing rounds

Postby ogro on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:31 pm

Concise description:
    Round missed, troops missed.
    In my opinion, player that missed his turn, should miss the troops corresponding to that round.
    It is not fair that someone come back to the game after miss one or several of his turns and play with a bunch of new troops, that weren’t in risk last round.

Specifics/Details:
  • Just not to save troops for later

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Game will be more equitable.
    There will be one more reason for not to miss rounds.
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