Eliminate Deferred Troops [REJECTED]

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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby TheForgivenOne on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:55 am

SantaRuga wrote:Ok guys I'm brand hew here and there's something i'm missing for sure:
if a player wants to skip his turn cause his "strategy" (if we can call it this way)is getting deferred troops in next or two-next round, why he just cant click the button "skip this game"? isn't it the same?
why he lets his time running out without doing anything - and i have to wait 24HRS??
repeating, i'm new, but really i don't get this crazy rule of getting deferred troops, considering i'm playing 4 games and lost 2 'cause i didn't understand IT WAS a strategy!!
coming back to the question, is or isn't the same clicking the "skip turn" button?


Skip turn doesn't skip your turn.

It just skips to the next game in your list of games. So say you enter game XXXXXXX and you don't feel like playing it quite yet (For whatever reason). You can press Skip turn, to go to Game YYYYYYYY instead.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Woodruff on Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:56 am

SantaRuga wrote:Ok guys I'm brand hew here and there's something i'm missing for sure:
if a player wants to skip his turn cause his "strategy" (if we can call it this way)is getting deferred troops in next or two-next round, why he just cant click the button "skip this game"? isn't it the same?


Not really. The "skip this game" button just skips it as he meanders through his games. It doesn't skip his TURN at all. He can always go back and take his turn anytime he wants (within the 24 hour period). It's two completely different issues.

SantaRuga wrote:repeating, i'm new, but really i don't get this crazy rule of getting deferred troops, considering i'm playing 4 games and lost 2 'cause i didn't understand IT WAS a strategy!!


A) It is NOT a viable strategy in the vast majority of situations.
B) If you lost games because someone else did this, then you lost because of your own poor strategy (or possibly poor dice), NOT because they did this.

SantaRuga wrote:coming back to the question, is or isn't the same clicking the "skip turn" button?


There is no "skip turn" button. And so no, they are not the same. Unfortunately, we must wait the 24 hours for them to not take their turn.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby SantaRuga on Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:49 am

ok i got it.
the "skip this game" button allows u just to take your time, and there's no "skip turn" button.
sure i lost for my own poor strategy (i didnt mean to find an excuse for loosing!) 'cause i'm playing the first 4 games in 4 different options and maps (never played with those in real life!).
(i like a lot "fog of war". that's misterious!)
anyway, got it. thanx.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Arethusa on Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:33 am

This is an extract of a suggestion I made in an earleir thread.

May I suggest that the originator of the game has an option to set the rules for deadbeats. ie 1 strike, 2 Strikes or 3 strikes and your out. It's then up to players joining the game to decide whether or not they can make the commitment knowing that if they miss 1 turn, they're out.

I would also suggest we have 12 hour timers as an option, this will also speed up games.


You could also use autodeploy for missed turns, so that players get their troops for missing a turn, but not the decision as to where they are deployed. Autodeploy would place 1 army on random territories.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:31 pm

a 12 hour limit would be hard for many people,who do like to sleep once in a while.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Queen_Herpes on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:04 pm

Seriously, though, who "likes" deferred troops. I see your arguments in favor of them, and I understand them, but I just cannot imagine how it is helpful that players get to miss 3 turns and slow down the game for everyone else.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:40 pm

I do. I once in a while miss a turn legitimately, due to being away from my computer unexpectedly for longer than I expected. It also helps me know which games I missed turns in.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Queen_Herpes on Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:43 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:I do. I once in a while miss a turn legitimately, due to being away from my computer unexpectedly for longer than I expected. It also helps me know which games I missed turns in.


I respect your post, but I have a hard time believing it because you are a mod and you kind of are on here once every 24 hours. In the instances where you missed a turn, did it really help you? I think there are two scenarios: one is a benefit that can bolster your position, the other is a detriment where you cannto recover from it. I don't see a missed turn with deferred troops "leveling" the game.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby greenoaks on Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:07 pm

i missed some turns last weekm maybe 150, could have been more

bad weather interupted my isp's service. i had a connection but usually nothing could get through. there as a lot of timing out, a lot of refreshing then 5 seconds of awesome download speed and then it was gone again for another 10 minutes.

i am pleased CC does not try to destroy me because real life got in the way.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Queen_Herpes on Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:10 pm

greenoaks wrote:i missed some turns last weekm maybe 150, could have been more

bad weather interupted my isp's service. i had a connection but usually nothing could get through. there as a lot of timing out, a lot of refreshing then 5 seconds of awesome download speed and then it was gone again for another 10 minutes.

i am pleased CC does not try to destroy me because real life got in the way.


But were you able to recover in those games?
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:20 am

Queen_Herpes wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:I do. I once in a while miss a turn legitimately, due to being away from my computer unexpectedly for longer than I expected. It also helps me know which games I missed turns in.


I respect your post, but I have a hard time believing it because you are a mod and you kind of are on here once every 24 hours. In the instances where you missed a turn, did it really help you? I think there are two scenarios: one is a benefit that can bolster your position, the other is a detriment where you cannto recover from it. I don't see a missed turn with deferred troops "leveling" the game.


Not always. For a year and a half I dealt with chronic migraines, and looking at a computer screen caused severe pain. Once I lost the interwebz in my sock drawer (haha, it was actually gone for no reason) For well over 70 hours. I managed to win a few of the games i was in, but that was because I was winning it already. But it gave me a chance to get back into it. Even though I got deferred troops I was at a severe disadvantage due to losing bonuses, and getting attacked. A few times I go over to my friends house (Oh my goodness, a Moderator has a life? IMPOSSIBLE), and I don't bring my laptop. Then I end up staying over for an extra day so I've gone 36~ hours away from CC.

Just because I am a mod, does not mean my life revolves around CC.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby jefjef on Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:53 am

Look. I have already spoken my mind on this matter. Miss turns and lose the troops. If you want to have a life then go ahead. Just don't screw up my games by making me wait and then rewarding me with a freaking stack to deal with.

OK. Move along. Nothing to see or resolve here. :D
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Queen_Herpes on Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:48 am

perhaps merge with this one?:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=134710
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby DP757 on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:48 pm

jefjef wrote:Look. I have already spoken my mind on this matter. Miss turns and lose the troops. If you want to have a life then go ahead. Just don't screw up my games by making me wait and then rewarding me with a freaking stack to deal with.

OK. Move along. Nothing to see or resolve here. :D



My thoughts exactly... rewarding someone for taking up 24 hours and missing a turn!?! We all have lives outside of CC... if you miss turns, you miss turns... why should the game change to your advantage? I understand this is archived and going nowhere, but I've just had 3 team games where my team basically got screwed because of deferred troops (hence why I looked up the topic). Being able to fortify your position after attacking is a crazy bonus for someone who's well fortified to get, it's used strategically by some and should be done away with.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Viceroy63 on Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:29 pm

I believe that all is fair in love and war and if you miss a turn then you miss a turn, armies/troops and all. This may be just a simple game of war but the reality is that we should all be held responsible for our actions or lack of actions. Our games should immitate reality as best as possible and in the real world it hurts when we do not live up to our responsibilies.

If the game is not that important to some, that they casually miss turns, then what would it matter to such a person if they also miss out on troops? Are they going to cry over not getting those troops more then losing the game? I think that it is a mistake to treat those who miss turns like it is not really their own fault and then give them a cookie to help them feel better about missing a turn.

It's just a game but it is also a lack of respect to all others who do their best to live up to their responsibilities in this "role playing" game. In fact it is down right dishonorable and such players should be completely deleted from CC. Just like if you miss 3 turns and your out of the game, well if you miss on any 3 games out of 10 or 20 games your account should be deleted and you would have to start all over again. That way if they really don't care for it too much, then it wont bother them to begin anew as well.

It's just a game but there are those who do take this a bit more serious and perhaps even strive to be the best that they can be and try to maintain perfect attendance records and play seriously and just by chance they have to put up with a player who may even be a bit emotionally untempered and does not care to be responsible and take away that much more enjoyment out of the game. Nobody truly enjoys a game where there are players missing turns only to come back in the third count just in time like if this was some kind of a wrestling match, and then be rewarded for missing turns when the rest were all playing their hearts out fighting one another and not paying any attention to this one guy because who knows if perhaps his computer broke down or what? Also no one wants to appear like they may be taking advantage of some one when they are down.

All is fair in love and war and whether your computer broke down or you went camping for the weekend or what ever the reason may be, it should not matter. You make a choice not to play or you do not keep your computer maintained or what ever, that's life, and in life as in our games we all, sooner or later, suffer the consequences of our actions. If your car broke down because of poor maintence, no one is going to give you the mileage or the time or anything that you lost because you were not responsible enough to keep your car well tuned! In fact in real life we often lose opportunities and money when such things happen. But here in CC we get rewarded when such things happen to us and then go on to win the game.

If we were playing each other for real and I mean in person, in our homes, no one would stand for that shite. You're either in or you're out; Period! If you got to go then you got to go; See ya; Good Bye! Have a nice camping trip and say hello to the troops for me and give them all a big hug and a kiss as well?!?!?!
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Crazy Frog on Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:51 pm

When I was more new than I am... ( I still consider myself new to this game) I replied to a thread somewhat similar to what you have said and was shocked by the response I got. Moreover I was told...

1) this is a board game that is Based upon the game Risk format and rules.

2) Every effort is made to keep the game play smooth and keep it fun... promote a cult following.

3) It is not a penalty to delete someones account... that would be favorable to some people as it would give them a fresh start to clean up their act... or improve their scores and rank.

Now... to show you what I mean by that last part... my first 100 games or so were still with a fairly low win ratio... maybe 20% or less at times... so my current win ratio of 32% is still reflecting those early losses. If I were to start over from scratch it would take a very short time to regain my current rank and then move up... and my win % would then be much higher.

Bottom line.. its a board game.. its for fun... its not real life.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Viceroy63 on Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:54 pm

Of course you're right about the fact that it is just for fun. And also that this is not real life. Maybe some of us just don't have live's and live right here. Lol. But still, if it is just for fun then why should it matter if say you do not get any deferred troops? Why have that ruling about receiving troops that you lost for a turn that you lost? Why? Unless there is some kind of a tactical advantage???

At any rate; If it's just for fun, as it is, would it be any less fun if you did not get any deferred troops for missing your turn?
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby aad0906 on Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:41 pm

I too have suffered from people benefiting from missing turns. In fact I considered opening a "new" suggestion last night after I barely survived a game where someone mised 2 turns, showed up, took oceania and plonked 6 deferred troops on the choke point!!! I also prefer to abolish deferred troops but I know it won't happen. How about a compromise: once you miss 2 turns, you'll only get deferred troops for missing 1 round.

What has screwed me up more than people missing one or tow turns and suddenly being able to put a large stack somewhere is situations in trips games where one opponent deadbeated and suddenly one other opponent has free bonuses, a large deployment and 7 spoils and thus a double cash coming up. This has turned winning games into losing games. If you deadbeat in a teamgame, your troops should just become neutral, just like in a standard game.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Crazy Frog on Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:02 pm

you said: What has screwed me up more than people missing one or tow turns and suddenly being able to put a large stack somewhere is situations in trips games where one opponent deadbeated and suddenly one other opponent has free bonuses, a large deployment and 7 spoils and thus a double cash coming up. This has turned winning games into losing games. If you deadbeat in a teamgame, your troops should just become neutral, just like in a standard game.

I say: Whaaaat???? Sorry I do not get it...???
I play doubs trips and quads all the time and I need to learn this trick...
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Crazy Frog on Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:16 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Of course you're right about the fact that it is just for fun. And also that this is not real life. Maybe some of us just don't have live's and live right here. Lol. But still, if it is just for fun then why should it matter if say you do not get any deferred troops? Why have that ruling about receiving troops that you lost for a turn that you lost? Why? Unless there is some kind of a tactical advantage???

At any rate; If it's just for fun, as it is, would it be any less fun if you did not get any deferred troops for missing your turn?


I hate missed turns too... But....
to not get your deferred troops would effectively be to throw the game to the apponent after one missed turn.

To not recieve the rounds deployment... (which is what the deferred troops are on a missed round) would most often cause the player to lose.... for only one missed turn... Be it because the wife needed to go to the grocery store... RIGHT NOW>>> EMERGENCY!!! or because the internet went down... (Someone stole the Router Box from the apartment rooftop) or whatever else occurs to keep someone from making their move... Penalize... yes... but throw the game to the opponent... NO!

Even though it would take a few rounds for the troop loss to finish the player.. it would be no less a critical blow to the player than if you just deleted them on the first missed turn..instead of waiting until the third... Your still killing their game play.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Viceroy63 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:39 am

Crazy Frog wrote:you said: What has screwed me up more than people missing one or tow turns and suddenly being able to put a large stack somewhere is situations in trips games where one opponent deadbeated and suddenly one other opponent has free bonuses, a large deployment and 7 spoils and thus a double cash coming up. This has turned winning games into losing games. If you deadbeat in a teamgame, your troops should just become neutral, just like in a standard game.

I say: Whaaaat???? Sorry I do not get it...???
I play doubs trips and quads all the time and I need to learn this trick...


Of course you wont get it! Only like 1% of the players get it. The 1% of truly tactical players who can see the future positions of the game and who will be where with how much.

I would summize that "The Trick" only works in a few rare position, with teams where 1 or both already have a slight advantage and 1 of the team players can support the game for a couple of turns. Also the timing would have to be perfect where 1 of the opposing players is low in regions and at the same time the player who gets deferred troops is also holding 5 spoils at the time. Although "The Trick" can also work in any other game that is not team or even a one on one. Only with a different variation or twist to it to meet the circumstances.

I would say it to be like a hunt where one lies in wait while the other (the strongest) ranches the weaker of the opposing team member at the expense of his own position in order for the player who is well positioned and having missed a turn or two, to come back for the kill and then have those "Deferred Troops" to fall back on so that he himself is not eliminated.

In team games, it really does not matter if one sacrifices himself so that the partner can win. One wins they both win! But using hunting and ranching tactics would not work if there were no extra deferred troops to rely on. The player who waited for the kill would be that much more vulnerable to a counter assault by the opposing teams. So it would not be worth it then.

If deferred troops were eliminated then tactical players (who can see future positions in their minds like chess players do), tactical players would not miss any turns at all. But since it is the same (especially in team plays who understand the tactics involved), if you miss a turn or two then you are really still playing and reinforcing your forces even if you do nothing at all. That is the real reason why the deferred troops rule exist and will never be done away with, and if anyone bothers to see the games of the top dogs, then you would see that they all have 98% or even less games attended. Because at the right time and place, Deferred Troops is a tactic just like any other. Only thing is that since we are not all tactical players then the mass majority of us miss out on it.

I am some what of a tactical player or at least I am learning to be but I would not use that tactic because it is like bringing a gun to a knife fight. It (to me) is cheating only thing is that almost no one can really see how it is done. But cheating is still cheating even if no one can figure it out. Because like I said, "We are not all tactical players." But when you consider who really wins the battle, it is the player who knows all the tricks and is not afraid to kick the opponent in the balls when he is down on the ground or bring a gun to a knife fight. Deferred Troops is like that, only in reverse. It is one animal playing the wound bird so as to gain something in return, while the other animals lie in wait.

I used to considered missing a turn on purpose just so that it would be a fair fight but thankfully I never did. I still have 100% games attended and 100% of my honor in tact. But now I especially attack those players who miss turns and not worry if others may think that I am kicking a man when he is down. I feel it an obligation to knife him some more especially when they are bleeding because I know that the Deferred Troops is like a quick blood transfusion that will unbalance the scales one way or another.

I think that if players miss turns "by accidents" then there should be a rule or a computer engine that randomly selects them to miss a turn on purpose, even though they will get the Deferred Troops anyways, but just so that they can feel the pain of perhaps one day being at the point of victory but the computer has decided that he can not participate in that round because the computer has auto select a "Miss Turn" for him because of his miss turns average. Imagine the gnaw in their gut when they could be at the deciding move to victory, and then they just miss it. How much fun would it be then? Huh?
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Viceroy63 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:55 am

Crazy Frog wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:Of course you're right about the fact that it is just for fun. And also that this is not real life. Maybe some of us just don't have live's and live right here. Lol. But still, if it is just for fun then why should it matter if say you do not get any deferred troops? Why have that ruling about receiving troops that you lost for a turn that you lost? Why? Unless there is some kind of a tactical advantage???

At any rate; If it's just for fun, as it is, would it be any less fun if you did not get any deferred troops for missing your turn?


I hate missed turns too... But....
to not get your deferred troops would effectively be to throw the game to the apponent after one missed turn.

To not recieve the rounds deployment... (which is what the deferred troops are on a missed round) would most often cause the player to lose.... for only one missed turn... Be it because the wife needed to go to the grocery store... RIGHT NOW>>> EMERGENCY!!! or because the internet went down... (Someone stole the Router Box from the apartment rooftop) or whatever else occurs to keep someone from making their move... Penalize... yes... but throw the game to the opponent... NO!

Even though it would take a few rounds for the troop loss to finish the player.. it would be no less a critical blow to the player than if you just deleted them on the first missed turn..instead of waiting until the third... Your still killing their game play.


I understand that Crazy Frog. But some one said that this is just for fun. So if it is all just in fun then those who think that way should also take it in fun when they lose a game because they missed a turn. It matters not the reason why they lost if it's all just in fun. Think of it this way; If it is all just in fun and games then Losing a game should also be all part of the same fun and games.

Let's say that there was a rule that stated that after only one missed turn, you were automatically eliminated from the game. Then those players who missed a turn could just as easily say, "Oh well; that was so much fun though. I think I'll do it again, duh????"
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Crazy Frog on Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:10 am

If it all just for fun... to the degree that you are stating...
then instead of worrying about the defered troops...

You should post another thread and do away with Rank and Points altogether.

To quote you... "duh????"
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:14 pm

Crazy Frog wrote:If it all just for fun... to the degree that you are stating...
then instead of worrying about the defered troops...

You should post another thread and do away with Rank and Points altogether.

To quote you... "duh????"


I apologize for the "duh." I realize that it can be taken personal and if I have offended anyone at all who reads these post, know that I am sorry and am deleting the word from my personal vocabulary and plan on never using that word again. I also don't believe on making any more replies to this post on this topic. I just wanted to get it off of my chest. I thank you Crazy Frog because you did respond to me and hope that we can be online friends.

Peace;
And war. Lol
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Reevaluate deferred troops and placement

Postby sgtsaggy on Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:45 pm

I know I am a new player to this site, but I have been playing risk for most of my life. I have been noticing that a good many players after securing a continent have been purposely missing turns in order to use deferred troops as a strategy rather than a courtesy. By both allowing deferred troops and not making it mandatory to place them all at the beginning of the turn, I have seen many people already blatantly abuse this privelege and use it to turn the winning odds in their favor. I understand the idea and purpose behind deferred troops, and that it is a means to discourage people from quiting a match. However, when people are abusing it in such a way it hurts every other player on the board and I don't think that is fair to the community and the people who are making sure they take their turns. The only way to defend against deferred troops is to not attack and fortify all your borders with whomever missed their turn, in fear they might place all the deferred troops on your border and attack. This is unfair to those that border said player because they essentially lose a turn as well while those that don't border get to carry on as usual. Giving someone deferred troops to try and keep it fair is one thing, but hurting all others and completely changing the outcome of a game is another. The only fair thing to do is to either not give deferred troops, or have them auto deploy spread out amongst their territories. No one else should be punished because someone misses a turn. If you have over-extended yourself amongst too many games, then you should have to take the hit if you miss a turn. If an emergency comes up and you have to miss a turn, you can always have someone else take it for you. I have seen numerous times now people miss a turn and when I check their current games find that they have taken other turns during the time period. So I cant see how it is called "fair" for that same person to then be able to take advantage of what I consider a broken system.
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