Eliminate Deferred Troops [REJECTED]

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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:13 am

I've been saying this for a very long time. Why should someone get rewarded for missing a turn? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to get punished and lose that drop? I says yes. Or at the very least leave the option up to the game maker. Having this option could have avoided a recent controversy in a clan league and could prevent some in the future.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby DoomYoshi on Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:04 pm

jgordon1111 wrote:I am thinking this is a good suggestion makes the game be played more like it was intended. If that is your best strategy and best skill your playing on the wrong site OMGUS, and I will treat you like I do when you give me away in a fog game FAMO

Right after I tell you what I think of you and your playing skills :shock:


How does this make it more like it was intended?

The game was 'intended" to be played sitting around a table. If someone needs a break to go to the bathroom, they usually (at least in my family) don't miss a turn.

Also cm5, if you are too lazy to change the title to the proper spelling, then I refuse to support the suggestion. I wouldn't support it anyways, but now I am double rejecting it. Since I am a black yoshi and you are only green, I outrank you :!:
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:30 am

DoomYoshi wrote:if you are too lazy to change the title to the proper spelling, then I refuse to support the suggestion. I wouldn't support it anyways, but now I am double rejecting it.


Now you are just being petty. Why should a person be rewarded for missing a turn? It only makes sense to punish them. Regardless, the OP isn't talking about doing away with deferred troops, but adding the option of turning them on or off as a game setting. This only allows for more freedom and control over the game. So to be clear, you are against having the option of being able to choose whether or not to allow deferred troops when setting up a game?
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:38 pm

Yes, I am against it as an option.

Losing a turn is punishment enough. I almost got booted out of my clan for losing too many. The option doesn't add anything to the games I care about (clan games or tournament team games).

Also, there is a certain amount of inertia involved in missing a turn. If you miss one turn, you are more likely to miss a second, and then to eventually just never come back to the site. I think adding further punishment won't help this at all. And yes, this applies even as an option.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:57 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Yes, I am against it as an option.

Losing a turn is punishment enough. I almost got booted out of my clan for losing too many. The option doesn't add anything to the games I care about (clan games or tournament team games).

Also, there is a certain amount of inertia involved in missing a turn. If you miss one turn, you are more likely to miss a second, and then to eventually just never come back to the site. I think adding further punishment won't help this at all. And yes, this applies even as an option.


Well I guess this where we disagree. I've missed turns on accident, but then come back to take the rest of my turns. So to assume because you miss one turn you are going to miss the rest and then leave site is a bit of a stretch to me. I've had sitters miss turns as well, but this doesn't mean I'm going to miss the rest of my turns and then not come back. To humor this thought, that if a person misses and then misses the second and then leaves the site, how do deferred troops even play a role, as they aren't coming back to take their turns or claim their deferred troops. In this scenario, having the option of deferring troops is meaningless either way.

I also have to disagree that they don't add anything. In a recent clan league, some of my mates were in a game, where the other team missed on purpose to claim their deferred troops a round later to increase their troop count in the last round to win by round limit. Had deferred troops been turned off, they wouldn't have been able to implore this strategy.

Once again, having the option is just that. It's an option. So, if you like to play with deferred troops you would have the option to play with them and those who don't like the idea, wouldn't have to be subject to playing with deferred troops. By allowing this option, everyone gets what they want. By not allowing it, you are imposing your will and opinion and not allowing others to play with their own personal preference. So I guess I don't understand how by allowing this option would affect you or the way you like to play the game.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:55 pm

The round limit rules are stupid. I will admit that. They should be changed though, not the deferred troops system.

I am usually quite in favor of options. I hate the Clandemonium map with a passion, but I still think it is good to have the option there. This option will affect me since I very rarely create games. Most games I play are clan or tournament so I will inadvertently be sucked into this option. Also, I don't think the supporters of this suggestion should have the satisfaction of implementation.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:23 am

DoomYoshi wrote:The round limit rules are stupid. I will admit that. They should be changed though, not the deferred troops system.

I am usually quite in favor of options. I hate the Clandemonium map with a passion, but I still think it is good to have the option there. This option will affect me since I very rarely create games. Most games I play are clan or tournament so I will inadvertently be sucked into this option. Also, I don't think the supporters of this suggestion should have the satisfaction of implementation.


Why? It seems to me you are against the idea on nothing more than principle alone. Once again, the option will only affect you if you chose for it to affect you. You don't have to join games that don't have the deferred option turned on. Unless you plan on missing turns or are a habitual turn misser, it should have no affect on you. As long as you are playing the game as it is intended, it shouldn't be an issue. I still fail to understand why you are such a staunch supporter of deferred troops versus having the option to make all parties happy. You do have the option to not join tournaments that would use this option. It all comes down to choice and it seems that you want to limit the choices so that it only benefits your opinion instead of keeping an open mind. Having the option to turn deferred troops on/off would be a compromise to make all parties happy. If it were up to me, deferred troops would be eliminated all together, however I respect that other people prefer deferred troops, and as such, think this is a viable solution to make all parties happy. Once again, why reward or benefit someone for missing their turn. By not allowing deferred troops you are in essence deterring missed turns rather than condoning them. I think this is fair option and don't understand the close minded attitude towards this.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:39 am

MNDuke wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:The round limit rules are stupid. I will admit that. They should be changed though, not the deferred troops system.

I am usually quite in favor of options. I hate the Clandemonium map with a passion, but I still think it is good to have the option there. This option will affect me since I very rarely create games. Most games I play are clan or tournament so I will inadvertently be sucked into this option. Also, I don't think the supporters of this suggestion should have the satisfaction of implementation.


Why? It seems to me you are against the idea on nothing more than principle alone. Once again, the option will only affect you if you chose for it to affect you. You don't have to join games that don't have the deferred option turned on. Unless you plan on missing turns or are a habitual turn misser, it should have no affect on you. As long as you are playing the game as it is intended, it shouldn't be an issue. I still fail to understand why you are such a staunch supporter of deferred troops versus having the option to make all parties happy. You do have the option to not join tournaments that would use this option. It all comes down to choice and it seems that you want to limit the choices so that it only benefits your opinion instead of keeping an open mind. Having the option to turn deferred troops on/off would be a compromise to make all parties happy. If it were up to me, deferred troops would be eliminated all together, however I respect that other people prefer deferred troops, and as such, think this is a viable solution to make all parties happy. Once again, why reward or benefit someone for missing their turn. By not allowing deferred troops you are in essence deterring missed turns rather than condoning them. I think this is fair option and don't understand the close minded attitude towards this.


In theory I have the option to choose game settings. Not in reality. I can't remember the last time I chose settings for a game I played in.

I understand that you respect different options. Usually I do. Not in this case though. For a similar reason that I don't support games played without points.

If missing turns is such a game changer, how come I can't find any strategy guides that suggest it. If missing turns is such a great strategy why don't you use it?

You accuse me of opposing this suggestion in principle, but the only reason you oppose deferred troops is in principle. Even if people were intentionally missing turns (i still don't believe it's common) what difference does it make? It slows your gameplay down?

It doesn't serve as a deterrent, it serves as a punishment. I ask you again: if you are playing RISK with your family and somebody needs to go to the bathroom, do you skip their turn and not give them troops? Unless you do, you haven't reason to support this suggestion.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:11 am

You can't look at this as a game of risk with your family. How many times have you played Arms Race with them while sitting around the table? This is a much different game and has evolved from the board game we know into something much bigger. How often do you play for points and ranks with your family? In that case you are supporting a game and comparing this one to one that is played without points. When you play at home, there are no time constraints, so you wouldn't miss a turn. It's not even an option. However, CC has time constraints applied to it, hence the ability to miss turns. That's where the issue begins and becomes a problem. So yes, you should be punished for missing a turn. And not receiving troops would serve as a deterrent. Just as missing 3 turns in a row and being kicked from a game serves as a deterrent from missing multiple turns. You are looking at this from 2 very different view points. Skipping a person's turn while they go to the bathroom is much different than a person not taking their turn in a given time period that they are aware of. This awareness of your turn is why a person should not be rewarded for missing a turn and thus should be punished in my opinion or why we should have the option to allow or disallow deferred troops as we see fit. People have different viewpoints on what should happen after missed turns and as such whether deferred troops should be allowed should be up to game creator. I think the option to punish someone for missing their turn should be a viable solution. If you know you have "x" amount of time to take your turn, it's your responsibility to find a way to get it done, and a person shouldn't be rewarded for shirking their responsibility.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:48 pm

And my argument is that missing a turn is punishment enough. There already is a deterrent. One less turn to attack, retake bonuses, capture spoils, and reinforce. This is a form of cyber-bullying. It transitions cc from a casual game, which I love, to a hardcore game, which I hate.

I may not have played arms race with my family, but I have played many more evolved forms of risk. Creating different boards and rules to play by was pretty much my entire childhood. Never mind the even more evolved games, such as Third Reich, Axis and Allies, Soldier Emperor etc. Playing on CC is a devolution, not an evolution.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:44 am

Missing your turn is technically not a punishment. It i a n action and the consequence/punishment would be losing deferments if the game creator so chose that option. Once again the topic is the option of turning deferred troops on/off. By allowing this option, deferred troops would still exist. As mentioned, just because you like having deferred troops available, doesn't mean that others shouldn't be allowed to have the option to turn them on/off. On the original board game, there is no such thing as Fog of war, so should that option be eliminated as well? Humor me and lets say you don't like fog. Would it be right then to say that all games should be sunny just because you don't like fog of war? Should we take that option away from people because of your personal preference? That's essentially what we are talking about here, except replace fog with deferred troops.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:33 pm

The difference is that this option is taking away a fundamental right: the right to have deployed troops proportionally distributed to all players in the game.

It's the CC equivalent of clean water.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:52 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:The difference is that this option is taking away a fundamental right: the right to have deployed troops proportionally distributed to all players in the game.

It's the CC equivalent of clean water.


If you miss your turn you are waiving that right. You are saying I don't care and my drop at this time isn't important. I'll just come back and I'll have my troops waiting for me later. You should not be rewarded for such behavior or at the very least, the option to turn off deferred troops should be permitted for those who feel that way. Not every one thinks deferred troops are a right. We are arguing the option for all, not the personal opinion of one, which you fail to see.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:35 am

Ok. I hereby drop down from double disapproval of this suggestion to single disapproval.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:46 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Ok. I hereby drop down from double disapproval of this suggestion to single disapproval.


What does that mean?
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:13 am

MNDuke wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Ok. I hereby drop down from double disapproval of this suggestion to single disapproval.


What does that mean?


It means I support the option you are referring to, but I still disagree with the spelling.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby crazymilkshake5 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:21 am

My thoughts behind this thread is that it would stop the unbalance of when people miss a turn, get 3 extra troops next turn, then overpower you and win.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby jefjef on Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:48 am

crazymilkshake5 wrote:My thoughts behind this thread is that it would stop the unbalance of when people miss a turn, get 3 extra troops next turn, then overpower you and win.


Deferred troops in team games are often game changers - especially when round 1 turns are missed.. The offender appears and drops a pile on his pard giving him a nice pile to work with. It does at times reward a team to miss a turn in some games on some maps with some drops.

Deferred needs to go - specifically for team games. It can completely skew/change the game.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby jgordon1111 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:32 am

jefjef wrote:
crazymilkshake5 wrote:My thoughts behind this thread is that it would stop the unbalance of when people miss a turn, get 3 extra troops next turn, then overpower you and win.


Deferred troops in team games are often game changers - especially when round 1 turns are missed.. The offender appears and drops a pile on his pard giving him a nice pile to work with. It does at times reward a team to miss a turn in some games on some maps with some drops.

Deferred needs to go - specifically for team games. It can completely skew/change the game.


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Re: Deffered Troops.

Postby chapcrap on Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:14 pm

Almost got the spelling right...

I think that this is the best option for them: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=166816
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:32 am

jefjef wrote:
crazymilkshake5 wrote:My thoughts behind this thread is that it would stop the unbalance of when people miss a turn, get 3 extra troops next turn, then overpower you and win.


Deferred troops in team games are often game changers - especially when round 1 turns are missed.. The offender appears and drops a pile on his pard giving him a nice pile to work with. It does at times reward a team to miss a turn in some games on some maps with some drops.

Deferred needs to go - specifically for team games. It can completely skew/change the game.


I don't think deferred troops need to go necessarily. That is a bit extreme or rash, but the option to make them disappear is a damn good solution. I have been saying this for a long time, and still am scratching my head as to why this hasn't happened already.

Likes Chapscraps I would also be in favor of this https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 4&t=166816 as an alternative.
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Remove Defferred Troops

Postby Robert The Red on Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:19 pm

I think it is wrong that someone who misses a turn should get the reinforcements on their following turn, I believe that some use this tacticaly and i think that it would motivate people not to miss their turns.

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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby chapcrap on Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:06 pm

Already been discussed a lot. This will not happen.
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby squishyg on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

You're right, some do use this as a strategy. But conquer club is a casual gaming site that welcomes laid back players who might not log on multiple times per day.

If you feel someone is purposely missing turns to gain an advantage, rate them accordingly and/or foe and move on.
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Re: Missed turn rule.

Postby Robert The Red on Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:11 am

How about putting some options in game settings with regard to missed turns, so we can decide for ourselves how we want the game played, even if it just for private games.
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