Eliminate Deferred Troops [REJECTED]

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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Crazy Frog on Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:51 pm

When I was more new than I am... ( I still consider myself new to this game) I replied to a thread somewhat similar to what you have said and was shocked by the response I got. Moreover I was told...

1) this is a board game that is Based upon the game Risk format and rules.

2) Every effort is made to keep the game play smooth and keep it fun... promote a cult following.

3) It is not a penalty to delete someones account... that would be favorable to some people as it would give them a fresh start to clean up their act... or improve their scores and rank.

Now... to show you what I mean by that last part... my first 100 games or so were still with a fairly low win ratio... maybe 20% or less at times... so my current win ratio of 32% is still reflecting those early losses. If I were to start over from scratch it would take a very short time to regain my current rank and then move up... and my win % would then be much higher.

Bottom line.. its a board game.. its for fun... its not real life.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Viceroy63 on Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:54 pm

Of course you're right about the fact that it is just for fun. And also that this is not real life. Maybe some of us just don't have live's and live right here. Lol. But still, if it is just for fun then why should it matter if say you do not get any deferred troops? Why have that ruling about receiving troops that you lost for a turn that you lost? Why? Unless there is some kind of a tactical advantage???

At any rate; If it's just for fun, as it is, would it be any less fun if you did not get any deferred troops for missing your turn?
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby aad0906 on Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:41 pm

I too have suffered from people benefiting from missing turns. In fact I considered opening a "new" suggestion last night after I barely survived a game where someone mised 2 turns, showed up, took oceania and plonked 6 deferred troops on the choke point!!! I also prefer to abolish deferred troops but I know it won't happen. How about a compromise: once you miss 2 turns, you'll only get deferred troops for missing 1 round.

What has screwed me up more than people missing one or tow turns and suddenly being able to put a large stack somewhere is situations in trips games where one opponent deadbeated and suddenly one other opponent has free bonuses, a large deployment and 7 spoils and thus a double cash coming up. This has turned winning games into losing games. If you deadbeat in a teamgame, your troops should just become neutral, just like in a standard game.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Crazy Frog on Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:02 pm

you said: What has screwed me up more than people missing one or tow turns and suddenly being able to put a large stack somewhere is situations in trips games where one opponent deadbeated and suddenly one other opponent has free bonuses, a large deployment and 7 spoils and thus a double cash coming up. This has turned winning games into losing games. If you deadbeat in a teamgame, your troops should just become neutral, just like in a standard game.

I say: Whaaaat???? Sorry I do not get it...???
I play doubs trips and quads all the time and I need to learn this trick...
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Crazy Frog on Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:16 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Of course you're right about the fact that it is just for fun. And also that this is not real life. Maybe some of us just don't have live's and live right here. Lol. But still, if it is just for fun then why should it matter if say you do not get any deferred troops? Why have that ruling about receiving troops that you lost for a turn that you lost? Why? Unless there is some kind of a tactical advantage???

At any rate; If it's just for fun, as it is, would it be any less fun if you did not get any deferred troops for missing your turn?


I hate missed turns too... But....
to not get your deferred troops would effectively be to throw the game to the apponent after one missed turn.

To not recieve the rounds deployment... (which is what the deferred troops are on a missed round) would most often cause the player to lose.... for only one missed turn... Be it because the wife needed to go to the grocery store... RIGHT NOW>>> EMERGENCY!!! or because the internet went down... (Someone stole the Router Box from the apartment rooftop) or whatever else occurs to keep someone from making their move... Penalize... yes... but throw the game to the opponent... NO!

Even though it would take a few rounds for the troop loss to finish the player.. it would be no less a critical blow to the player than if you just deleted them on the first missed turn..instead of waiting until the third... Your still killing their game play.
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Viceroy63 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:39 am

Crazy Frog wrote:you said: What has screwed me up more than people missing one or tow turns and suddenly being able to put a large stack somewhere is situations in trips games where one opponent deadbeated and suddenly one other opponent has free bonuses, a large deployment and 7 spoils and thus a double cash coming up. This has turned winning games into losing games. If you deadbeat in a teamgame, your troops should just become neutral, just like in a standard game.

I say: Whaaaat???? Sorry I do not get it...???
I play doubs trips and quads all the time and I need to learn this trick...


Of course you wont get it! Only like 1% of the players get it. The 1% of truly tactical players who can see the future positions of the game and who will be where with how much.

I would summize that "The Trick" only works in a few rare position, with teams where 1 or both already have a slight advantage and 1 of the team players can support the game for a couple of turns. Also the timing would have to be perfect where 1 of the opposing players is low in regions and at the same time the player who gets deferred troops is also holding 5 spoils at the time. Although "The Trick" can also work in any other game that is not team or even a one on one. Only with a different variation or twist to it to meet the circumstances.

I would say it to be like a hunt where one lies in wait while the other (the strongest) ranches the weaker of the opposing team member at the expense of his own position in order for the player who is well positioned and having missed a turn or two, to come back for the kill and then have those "Deferred Troops" to fall back on so that he himself is not eliminated.

In team games, it really does not matter if one sacrifices himself so that the partner can win. One wins they both win! But using hunting and ranching tactics would not work if there were no extra deferred troops to rely on. The player who waited for the kill would be that much more vulnerable to a counter assault by the opposing teams. So it would not be worth it then.

If deferred troops were eliminated then tactical players (who can see future positions in their minds like chess players do), tactical players would not miss any turns at all. But since it is the same (especially in team plays who understand the tactics involved), if you miss a turn or two then you are really still playing and reinforcing your forces even if you do nothing at all. That is the real reason why the deferred troops rule exist and will never be done away with, and if anyone bothers to see the games of the top dogs, then you would see that they all have 98% or even less games attended. Because at the right time and place, Deferred Troops is a tactic just like any other. Only thing is that since we are not all tactical players then the mass majority of us miss out on it.

I am some what of a tactical player or at least I am learning to be but I would not use that tactic because it is like bringing a gun to a knife fight. It (to me) is cheating only thing is that almost no one can really see how it is done. But cheating is still cheating even if no one can figure it out. Because like I said, "We are not all tactical players." But when you consider who really wins the battle, it is the player who knows all the tricks and is not afraid to kick the opponent in the balls when he is down on the ground or bring a gun to a knife fight. Deferred Troops is like that, only in reverse. It is one animal playing the wound bird so as to gain something in return, while the other animals lie in wait.

I used to considered missing a turn on purpose just so that it would be a fair fight but thankfully I never did. I still have 100% games attended and 100% of my honor in tact. But now I especially attack those players who miss turns and not worry if others may think that I am kicking a man when he is down. I feel it an obligation to knife him some more especially when they are bleeding because I know that the Deferred Troops is like a quick blood transfusion that will unbalance the scales one way or another.

I think that if players miss turns "by accidents" then there should be a rule or a computer engine that randomly selects them to miss a turn on purpose, even though they will get the Deferred Troops anyways, but just so that they can feel the pain of perhaps one day being at the point of victory but the computer has decided that he can not participate in that round because the computer has auto select a "Miss Turn" for him because of his miss turns average. Imagine the gnaw in their gut when they could be at the deciding move to victory, and then they just miss it. How much fun would it be then? Huh?
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Viceroy63 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:55 am

Crazy Frog wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:Of course you're right about the fact that it is just for fun. And also that this is not real life. Maybe some of us just don't have live's and live right here. Lol. But still, if it is just for fun then why should it matter if say you do not get any deferred troops? Why have that ruling about receiving troops that you lost for a turn that you lost? Why? Unless there is some kind of a tactical advantage???

At any rate; If it's just for fun, as it is, would it be any less fun if you did not get any deferred troops for missing your turn?


I hate missed turns too... But....
to not get your deferred troops would effectively be to throw the game to the apponent after one missed turn.

To not recieve the rounds deployment... (which is what the deferred troops are on a missed round) would most often cause the player to lose.... for only one missed turn... Be it because the wife needed to go to the grocery store... RIGHT NOW>>> EMERGENCY!!! or because the internet went down... (Someone stole the Router Box from the apartment rooftop) or whatever else occurs to keep someone from making their move... Penalize... yes... but throw the game to the opponent... NO!

Even though it would take a few rounds for the troop loss to finish the player.. it would be no less a critical blow to the player than if you just deleted them on the first missed turn..instead of waiting until the third... Your still killing their game play.


I understand that Crazy Frog. But some one said that this is just for fun. So if it is all just in fun then those who think that way should also take it in fun when they lose a game because they missed a turn. It matters not the reason why they lost if it's all just in fun. Think of it this way; If it is all just in fun and games then Losing a game should also be all part of the same fun and games.

Let's say that there was a rule that stated that after only one missed turn, you were automatically eliminated from the game. Then those players who missed a turn could just as easily say, "Oh well; that was so much fun though. I think I'll do it again, duh????"
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Crazy Frog on Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:10 am

If it all just for fun... to the degree that you are stating...
then instead of worrying about the defered troops...

You should post another thread and do away with Rank and Points altogether.

To quote you... "duh????"
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Re: Eliminate Deferred Troops

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:14 pm

Crazy Frog wrote:If it all just for fun... to the degree that you are stating...
then instead of worrying about the defered troops...

You should post another thread and do away with Rank and Points altogether.

To quote you... "duh????"


I apologize for the "duh." I realize that it can be taken personal and if I have offended anyone at all who reads these post, know that I am sorry and am deleting the word from my personal vocabulary and plan on never using that word again. I also don't believe on making any more replies to this post on this topic. I just wanted to get it off of my chest. I thank you Crazy Frog because you did respond to me and hope that we can be online friends.

Peace;
And war. Lol
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Reevaluate deferred troops and placement

Postby sgtsaggy on Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:45 pm

I know I am a new player to this site, but I have been playing risk for most of my life. I have been noticing that a good many players after securing a continent have been purposely missing turns in order to use deferred troops as a strategy rather than a courtesy. By both allowing deferred troops and not making it mandatory to place them all at the beginning of the turn, I have seen many people already blatantly abuse this privelege and use it to turn the winning odds in their favor. I understand the idea and purpose behind deferred troops, and that it is a means to discourage people from quiting a match. However, when people are abusing it in such a way it hurts every other player on the board and I don't think that is fair to the community and the people who are making sure they take their turns. The only way to defend against deferred troops is to not attack and fortify all your borders with whomever missed their turn, in fear they might place all the deferred troops on your border and attack. This is unfair to those that border said player because they essentially lose a turn as well while those that don't border get to carry on as usual. Giving someone deferred troops to try and keep it fair is one thing, but hurting all others and completely changing the outcome of a game is another. The only fair thing to do is to either not give deferred troops, or have them auto deploy spread out amongst their territories. No one else should be punished because someone misses a turn. If you have over-extended yourself amongst too many games, then you should have to take the hit if you miss a turn. If an emergency comes up and you have to miss a turn, you can always have someone else take it for you. I have seen numerous times now people miss a turn and when I check their current games find that they have taken other turns during the time period. So I cant see how it is called "fair" for that same person to then be able to take advantage of what I consider a broken system.
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Re: Reevaluate deferred troops and placement

Postby Lindax on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:39 pm

I totally agree with you. However, this has been brought up many times and it seems impossible to make people understand how deferred troops can be unfair and change the game, even be the direct cause of losing a game.

I doubt very much that this time is different and something will be done about it.

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Re: Reevaluate deferred troops and placement

Postby Teflon Kris on Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:39 am

I agree Lx, this has been a long-standing point of discussion.

I suspect part of the rationale being a lack of priority to adress this is the fact that new players to the site might be put-off a little if they miss an odd turn and it crushes their chances in a game. If I were lack I would be concerned that removing the deferred troops system might result in a few less fremiums getting really into CC and going premium.

However, there are so many instances where deferred troops have turned-out to be unfair to the reliable opponent. And, in fresstyle it can be rediculous (especially in 1 v 1 - the player going second can miss then go first (the other player is locked-out as he actually took a turn last) with his normal turn and have deferred troops).

Perhaps, happy a medium could be struck along the lines of the following:

  • Deferred troop count of just 3, or maybe even 2, no bonuses, no region-count bonuses.

  • No deferred troops in freestlye (or, seperately, the freestly coding is adjusted so that the miss locks the player missing out for the first 12 hours / going first next round).
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Re: Reevaluate deferred troops and placement

Postby Evolution299 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:59 pm

I don't get it. Why should you be rewarded for missing a turn? If you miss a turn, you shouldn't get those troops. Or if you must get an amount of deferred troops, let it be a max of 3.
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Re: Reevaluate deferred troops and placement

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:46 pm

Leave the deferred troops as they are in sequential.

No one (other than farmers) really cares about freestyle, so do whatever with that.
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Deffered Troops.

Postby crazymilkshake5 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:13 pm

Concise description:
  • Adds an option to get rid of differed troops.

Specifics/Details:
  • In "start a game" it adds a button to turn them off.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Admit it. Nobody like Differed troops.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby sundance123 on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:48 pm

I like them when I have missed a turn unintentionally.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby jefjef on Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:29 pm

sundance123 wrote:I like them when I have missed a turn unintentionally.


Lots of people like them. They create a nice little pile for a partners next turn or to fort up a recently conquered tert/bonus.

Do away with them is what I say. An option to accomplish that is a great idea!
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby SimplyObsessed on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:37 am

I think maybe this could work, but shouldn't be applicable to team games at all as it's unfair on the other team members. I'd suggest, excluding team games, the deferred troops should be half of what the person was due. That would be an incentive not to miss turns, and would be less likely to totally screw the balance of the game.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby Criticalwinner on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:27 pm

I don't know what differed troops are, but deferred troops aren't that much of a problem. While Simply brings up a good point (half deferral), I don't think they should be done away with.... especially in 1 minute speed games.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby jgordon1111 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:14 am

I am thinking this is a good suggestion makes the game be played more like it was intended. If that is your best strategy and best skill your playing on the wrong site OMGUS, and I will treat you like I do when you give me away in a fog game FAMO

Right after I tell you what I think of you and your playing skills :shock:
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:13 am

I've been saying this for a very long time. Why should someone get rewarded for missing a turn? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to get punished and lose that drop? I says yes. Or at the very least leave the option up to the game maker. Having this option could have avoided a recent controversy in a clan league and could prevent some in the future.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby DoomYoshi on Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:04 pm

jgordon1111 wrote:I am thinking this is a good suggestion makes the game be played more like it was intended. If that is your best strategy and best skill your playing on the wrong site OMGUS, and I will treat you like I do when you give me away in a fog game FAMO

Right after I tell you what I think of you and your playing skills :shock:


How does this make it more like it was intended?

The game was 'intended" to be played sitting around a table. If someone needs a break to go to the bathroom, they usually (at least in my family) don't miss a turn.

Also cm5, if you are too lazy to change the title to the proper spelling, then I refuse to support the suggestion. I wouldn't support it anyways, but now I am double rejecting it. Since I am a black yoshi and you are only green, I outrank you :!:
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:30 am

DoomYoshi wrote:if you are too lazy to change the title to the proper spelling, then I refuse to support the suggestion. I wouldn't support it anyways, but now I am double rejecting it.


Now you are just being petty. Why should a person be rewarded for missing a turn? It only makes sense to punish them. Regardless, the OP isn't talking about doing away with deferred troops, but adding the option of turning them on or off as a game setting. This only allows for more freedom and control over the game. So to be clear, you are against having the option of being able to choose whether or not to allow deferred troops when setting up a game?
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:38 pm

Yes, I am against it as an option.

Losing a turn is punishment enough. I almost got booted out of my clan for losing too many. The option doesn't add anything to the games I care about (clan games or tournament team games).

Also, there is a certain amount of inertia involved in missing a turn. If you miss one turn, you are more likely to miss a second, and then to eventually just never come back to the site. I think adding further punishment won't help this at all. And yes, this applies even as an option.
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Re: Differed Troops.

Postby MNDuke on Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:57 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Yes, I am against it as an option.

Losing a turn is punishment enough. I almost got booted out of my clan for losing too many. The option doesn't add anything to the games I care about (clan games or tournament team games).

Also, there is a certain amount of inertia involved in missing a turn. If you miss one turn, you are more likely to miss a second, and then to eventually just never come back to the site. I think adding further punishment won't help this at all. And yes, this applies even as an option.


Well I guess this where we disagree. I've missed turns on accident, but then come back to take the rest of my turns. So to assume because you miss one turn you are going to miss the rest and then leave site is a bit of a stretch to me. I've had sitters miss turns as well, but this doesn't mean I'm going to miss the rest of my turns and then not come back. To humor this thought, that if a person misses and then misses the second and then leaves the site, how do deferred troops even play a role, as they aren't coming back to take their turns or claim their deferred troops. In this scenario, having the option of deferring troops is meaningless either way.

I also have to disagree that they don't add anything. In a recent clan league, some of my mates were in a game, where the other team missed on purpose to claim their deferred troops a round later to increase their troop count in the last round to win by round limit. Had deferred troops been turned off, they wouldn't have been able to implore this strategy.

Once again, having the option is just that. It's an option. So, if you like to play with deferred troops you would have the option to play with them and those who don't like the idea, wouldn't have to be subject to playing with deferred troops. By allowing this option, everyone gets what they want. By not allowing it, you are imposing your will and opinion and not allowing others to play with their own personal preference. So I guess I don't understand how by allowing this option would affect you or the way you like to play the game.
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