Place an "Average Wait Time" on each persons wall[Poll]

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Should we place an Average Wait Time on each person's wall?

Yes
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58%
No
13
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Total votes : 31

Re: Average Response Time

Postby TheForgivenOne on Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:12 pm

And does this include Speed Games?
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby PapaGeek on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:36 am

No, speed games would not be included. Just interested in the 24 hour games.

I've played a number of games with 8 players where I get to make a move no more than twice a week, sometimes just once a week.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:34 am

I like this.
Instead of 100 I'd prefer 1000
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby squishyg on Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:39 am

I see why some people would value this information, but I don't like it because it creates the false impression that take your turn quickly is preferable to taking your turn strategically. Making 2 well thought out turns during the course of a week trumps 2 hastily planned turns a day.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby Dorieus on Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:27 am

One problem with this suggestion is that players in US time zones will have an advantage, whereas players in other zones will wrongly appear to be slower.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:35 am

Dorieus wrote:One problem with this suggestion is that players in US time zones will have an advantage, whereas players in other zones will wrongly appear to be slower.

huh?

Please elaborate...
1 hour in the US is the same as 1 hour in Europe... unless Im missing something
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby blakebowling on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:38 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:
Dorieus wrote:One problem with this suggestion is that players in US time zones will have an advantage, whereas players in other zones will wrongly appear to be slower.

huh?

Please elaborate...
1 hour in the US is the same as 1 hour in Europe... unless Im missing something

What I think he is saying is, players in significantly offset timezones from the US (such as europe and china) will appear to be playing slower than players who are sequenced in the same order in the U.S.

I don't think that explained it better, so I'll give an example.

Players 1 - 3 of a 4 player game are in the US in lets say the same time zone (however any of the four US time zones will work). Player 4 is in Europe (at least a 5 hour time difference from the U.S. players). If players 1 - 3 are all on at the same time, and take their turns in order, it will cause them to have lower "response times", while player 4 will appear to take much longer as the times during the day aren't the same in both locations (i.e. when it's morning in the U.S. It's afternoon in the UK, when it's afternoon in the U.S. it's night in the UK).

This won't bias all of the results, but I really don't like it as it's another statistic that can be easily manipulated.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:02 pm

thats why the sample size needs to be 1000 instead of 100. Hell, id go for every turn.

Over a period of 1000's of turns, the # becomes more true. I just think the info would be interesting more than helpful. I mean, I wouldnt join a game with a guy who has an avg turn time of 22 hours though lol
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby squishyg on Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:36 pm

BGtheBrain wrote: I wouldnt join a game with a guy who has an avg turn time of 22 hours though lol


And that's exactly why this suggestion shouldn't go forward. It's discriminatory against people who take their time, people who need more time due to disabilities, people who live in less populated time zones, poor folks who rely on public computers, and Western Hemisphere players who work third shift!

Really, what would the black jesus say?
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby Shadow Assassin on Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:30 pm

I like this idea, but i think it should be for all games ever played. or even better, an option that lets you specify.\

as for the western hemisphere players playing faster, people can always take a look at your location indicated on your profile.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby zimmah on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:21 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:I like this.
Instead of 100 I'd prefer 1000


QFT

maybe have 1000 in the profile page and make it clickable to go to a page with more detailed information. like last 100, last 2000, average for all turns since it has been registered. and whatever else you can think of.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:25 pm

I don't really care about this at all.

But, if you're gonna do it, I would use information from the last 30 days, instead of a set number of turns. Of course, this information will be a lot more for some than Others. I take 1000 turns in a couple of days... A freemium may take months to take that many turns.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby PapaGeek on Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:38 pm

Thanks for all the feedback:

I agree that doing it over the past 30 days would be better than the past 100 turns.

I don’t think that it would affect players who take their time when making a move. The concept is not how long it takes to make the actual move, but how long it takes before you start that move. The time span could go from when the previous player ended their turn and when the next player started theirs, if they take 45 minutes, that should not count against them.

Most days I check the boards when I get up in the morning, then at lunch time at work, then when I get home, and again before I go to bed at night. Some of my moves delay the game 10 to 12 hours, but most are in the 4 hour range.

Some players make their moves just once a day and this stat would point them out.

I play at 7 AM, 12 noon, 6 PM and 10 PM. That is 5, 6, 4, and 9 hours between checking the boards. I’m not sure how shifting times like that by a few hours for someone living in another country would affect this rating. What would affect it would be a person who plays just once a day.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby MoB Deadly on Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:55 pm

This would not be in the best interest of the business side of CC. I remember when I was freemium, and I would look for all the players that played fast so I could have quick turnaround time for games.

Having all of your game slots full, entices freemium players to purchase an account and have unlimited games.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby squishyg on Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:58 pm

PapaGeek wrote:Thanks for all the feedback:

I agree that doing it over the past 30 days would be better than the past 100 turns.

I don’t think that it would affect players who take their time when making a move. The concept is not how long it takes to make the actual move, but how long it takes before you start that move. The time span could go from when the previous player ended their turn and when the next player started theirs, if they take 45 minutes, that should not count against them.

Most days I check the boards when I get up in the morning, then at lunch time at work, then when I get home, and again before I go to bed at night. Some of my moves delay the game 10 to 12 hours, but most are in the 4 hour range.

Some players make their moves just once a day and this stat would point them out.

I play at 7 AM, 12 noon, 6 PM and 10 PM. That is 5, 6, 4, and 9 hours between checking the boards. I’m not sure how shifting times like that by a few hours for someone living in another country would affect this rating. What would affect it would be a person who plays just once a day.


Part of what I like about CC is that I only have to take my turns once a day. They advertise this on the homepage. Why should we make a big deal or create a false preference for player's who log on every few hours?
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby Dorieus on Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:12 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:
Dorieus wrote:One problem with this suggestion is that players in US time zones will have an advantage, whereas players in other zones will wrongly appear to be slower.

huh?

Please elaborate...
1 hour in the US is the same as 1 hour in Europe... unless Im missing something


No, I misunderstood the suggestion. My apologies.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby darth emperor on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:21 pm

I agree with squishyg, to know this info not only is useless, but also is not curious... the problem with this suggestion is that you are assuming, that everyone is taking their games in order, but that's not true. Sometimes, you feel like skipping one game and take it later, or is a team game therefore you'll play it later waiting your team response. That's why we have the skip option. It's an inaccurate info, that would only discriminate players. If you want to have more turns, you are a premium, make some games, play speeds, just play 1v1 so you'll play faster... there are many options... as squishyg pointed this site is designed for the casual player, connect every 24 hours is enough, if you want more, premium gives you a lot of options
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby PapaGeek on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:29 pm

I totally realize that different players have different styles of play. Some like to take a longer time and think things out more. Some only play once a day. But then some of us play 3 or 4 times a day and would like to play “quicker” games.

Many of the 8 player games that I get in take as much as 3 or 4 days between turns when a number of “slow” response players are in the game.

Here is an idea of what I’m asking for. First of all I have no idea what the stats might look like.

Only a player with an Average Response Time of 4 hours or less can start a “Fast Response” game. You can’t join a Fast Response game unless your average response time is 8 hours or less. Both numbers are up for debate and shouldn’t be determined until after we gather the stats for a while.

You still have the ability to take 24 hours in a Fast Response game, no penalty, but it does lower you average time and you might not be able to join another Fast Response game until you speed thing up.

I’m not trying in any way to stop slower players from enjoying the game, the more the merrier. But the reverse does not seem to be true in this thread. It’s almost as if a lot of players are saying:

“I play slower and I don’t think that those who want to play faster games should have the ability to do so.”

Why not? If you don’t like the Fast Response games, don’t join them. So why try to stop those who want faster game play.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby crispybits on Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:33 pm

I like the theory behind the idea, but I think it can be solved in a different way.

Currently, round times for games are 24 hours, 5 minutes, 4 minutes, 3 minutes, 2 minutes, 1 minute.

Why not have another couple of options in that vast chasm of a gap between 24 hours and 5 minutes? Say 12 hours and 8 hours? Doesn't hurt the business side because they would still count as "speed games" and only be available to premiums, lets people who don't want to wait for days for a turn and don't want to join a lot of games just to get plenty of action join games where they will most likely get a turn within 24 hours each time even in larger games, and leaves enough time for sleep (which is why I havent suggested 4 hours) or work.

No publicising player timings, no stigma attached to playing slowly (remember people still get the "slow" tag in ratings so there are still ways to spot them), everyone gets the kind of games they want, and CC still gets premium fees. Win win no?

Edit - never mind just read the next post down and the one in the "might be implemented" board.... :oops:
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby darth emperor on Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:37 pm

Is not that we are trying to stop people who wants faster games... you didn't get the problem of your idea

PapaGeek wrote:I totally realize that different players have different styles of play.

This is true, but this is not what we are saying. What we are saying is that " One player has different styles of play" depending on the settings, therefore even if is of 1000000 games you won't get an accurate number, neither an approximate number, and therefore is making it totally useless.

PapaGeek wrote:Only a player with an Average Response Time of 4 hours or less can start a “Fast Response” game. You can’t join a Fast Response game unless your average response time is 8 hours or less. Both numbers are up for debate and shouldn’t be determined until after we gather the stats for a while.

This idea, won't get accepted, because of the same reasons, they aren't accepting games with rank limit, well this case would be worst as the number is completly unaccurate

PapaGeek wrote:You still have the ability to take 24 hours in a Fast Response game, no penalty, but it does lower you average time and you might not be able to join another Fast Response game until you speed thing up.

This could only work if you have a Fast response game, for every combination setting+map


PapaGeek wrote:It’s almost as if a lot of players are saying:

“I play slower and I don’t think that those who want to play faster games should have the ability to do so.”

Again, they are not saying that, for example in my post I said few ways you can have speeder games. The best way to get faster games is the suggestion that crispybits says altough is already suggested and accepted, the question is when will be implemented
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby PapaGeek on Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:35 pm

Thanks for your response crispybits, but the 12 hour game scares me. I personally play first thing in the morning, at lunch at work, when I get home, and again before bedtime. Let’s say that is 7 AM, 12 noon, 5 pm, and 11 pm.

If I happen to oversleep one day, I’d have no time for my morning checks. By the time lunch rolls around at work, it has been 13 hours. Playing 4 times a day, my average response is probably in the 3 to 4 hour range, but there can easily be a 13 hours response from time to time.

That is why I wanted a rating system. Many of the players take their time, or only play once a day. And that is fine, I’m just looking fr a way that more active players can play games with other more active players.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby agentcom on Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:22 pm

I know this has been suggested before although it might have been something to do with Tools and Enhancements. Pretty sure it was here, though. I like the idea. I think it sounds like a pretty easy stat to keep and useful to many. If I'm shopping around for 1v1 players, I might want to see this information--especially if I'm a freemium.

"But it's an inaccurate gauge of yada-yada" - So is win percentage in its current implementation

"Players shouldn't feel expected to take turns quickly" - I doubt many will change their style of play because this is being tracked. It doesn't have the negative stigma associated with it that, say, low rankings do. Plus, I think most players and certainly most freemium players won't really care about this. I personally, don't care if someone takes every turn right at the 24 hour mark. I have other games to fill my time.

"We should just have different round lengths" - While I support the idea generally for more options, that doesn't necessarily fix this problem. The way I see it, this problem is for the vast majority of games where people want a 24 hour turn limit, but would prefer that turns are taken quickly.

"It would punish people outside the U.S." - I have a lot of trouble wrapping my mind around this. I am setting aside that I don't see a high turn-taking time stat as a punishment. It does seems like a higher turn taking time is the obvious result of this suggestion at first, but there are some many different schedules that people keep across the globe that I don't think where you're from will be the major determinant of this stat. More likely, this will be determined by (1) how often you log on to clear your games and (2) how long you sit on games before you take your turn. That is it will be determined by how people play not where they're from--just like it's supposed to. Player 1 might log on 17 times a day, but most of the time comment on games and not take turns. My response time would be nearly 24 hours. Player 2 might log in once a day and clear all turns leading to a response time of about 12 hours. Player 3 could log in 24 times a day and clear my turns leading to a response time of about .5 hours. If that statistic is important to people, they can avoid P1, seek out P3 and decide if they want to play with P2.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby darth emperor on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:18 am

agentcom wrote:I"But it's an inaccurate gauge of yada-yada" - So is win percentage in its current implementation

So we can have a lot of incorrect numbers because we have one incorrect? It should be the other way around, let's correct this number and don't let another wrong numbers get in place. Futhermore, they has been some good suggestion on how to correct the win percentage (including its elimination) the only thing left is that CC chooses one

agentcom wrote:"Players shouldn't feel expected to take turns quickly" - I doubt many will change their style of play because this is being tracked. It doesn't have the negative stigma associated with it that, say, low rankings do. Plus, I think most players and certainly most freemium players won't really care about this. I personally, don't care if someone takes every turn right at the 24 hour mark. I have other games to fill my time.

If most people don't care, then why to put it?
And while in theory, this shouldn't have a negative stigma, what the OP is saying is to make limits on who should enter in the games based on their ART. Of course it will be create negative stigma

agentcom wrote:"We should just have different round lengths" - While I support the idea generally for more options, that doesn't necessarily fix this problem. The way I see it, this problem is for the vast majority of games where people want a 24 hour turn limit, but would prefer that turns are taken quickly.

I get your idea of this, but is like you are saying: Everyone should play as fast as possible, but I want to take my turns after 24 hours... that's like the old RT (real times)where people should play their games in 5 minutes, but they have the 24hours if they want to leave, leaving everyone hanging
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby greenoaks on Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:41 am

this penalises me as i am in australia.

when i go to bed the usa is just getting into the swing of things so they take their turns. that round they all have fast response times, my turn comes back round and the gamegrinds to a halt as i am asleep.

when i'm taking my turns the usa is asleep. i'm the only one logged on in the game so 1 person from the usa gets a slow time from the game that round. once he has taken his turn everyone else takes theirs and it is back to me.

i can spend 4 hours online to take turns but as hardly anyone else is on i rarely get a repeat turn that day. that is not the case for americans/canadians/mexicans.

every game the guy in australia gets a slow time most rounds, whereas most usa players will get fast times.


IF YOU WANT TURNS TO TAKE BUY PREMIUM AND JOIN AS MANY GAMES AS YOU LIKE.
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Re: Average Response Time

Postby MoB Deadly on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:49 pm

greenoaks wrote:this penalises me as i am in australia.

when i go to bed the usa is just getting into the swing of things so they take their turns. that round they all have fast response times, my turn comes back round and the gamegrinds to a halt as i am asleep.

when i'm taking my turns the usa is asleep. i'm the only one logged on in the game so 1 person from the usa gets a slow time from the game that round. once he has taken his turn everyone else takes theirs and it is back to me.

i can spend 4 hours online to take turns but as hardly anyone else is on i rarely get a repeat turn that day. that is not the case for americans/canadians/mexicans.

every game the guy in australia gets a slow time most rounds, whereas most usa players will get fast times.


IF YOU WANT TURNS TO TAKE BUY PREMIUM AND JOIN AS MANY GAMES AS YOU LIKE.


Good example
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