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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby BoganGod on Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:03 am

HardAttack wrote:Andrew and all the ppl whoever supports the idea of there should be a score bareer to join in a game.
Listen all, i respect all the answers and comments you ladies and gentlemen entered. This is not an objective situation, some might like and take CC a way to have fun with whatever a game results with, some other may take it a bit more serious, would put more time and effort and also strategy etc. As you ppl see, this is not an objective situation. All has their own ways to deal with the problem. This situation s slightly becoming and turning into a way to say i like green olives and the other says that he likes black olives and both supports and try to impose their idea to be better and even true one. Anyway, this is preference of free souls mates. Some may like green ones, some other may like black ones. No one should try to proove that green ones are better or vice versa. Same here, some like a barrier should exist because they believe the games with alike scored players would result a more challenging games, and some would not like the idea. There is no point on keep this going on.

The main problem here, less than % 10 of high rankers are aware of there is a room, that is for 2000+ or 2500+ players only.
As far as i see, this suggestion will not work, will not take its place in future of CC. That is what my previous exprience tells me.
Then, andrew and other high rankers, there must be a way to increase the efficiency of callout 2000+ 2500+ subforums. I dont know how we may do it, maybe for a while we all need to advertise it in our banners, or in our profiles, linking it yu know..
We all have our clan banners in our profile pages, but think of this, those rooms are suffering from most of ppl do not know what it is where it is and how to use of it. Lets advertise it for 2 months or maybe 3. I believe the use efficiency will rise up, ppl who are using it will rise up. This will not bring an ultimate solution to the matter but will do good some.


I agree with most of what you've written here mate.
I very much doubt that rank selection will ever happen on public games, the mods/admins much prefer keeping themselves busy with complaints about farming, when most players over 1800points would much not have noobs and cooks join their games. If you start a public game and ? marks jump in your accused or been a farmer. If you make private games, you end up playing the same people, again and again... GRRRRRRRRR makes the site bloody boring. Nothing we can do though
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby HardAttack on Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:36 am

BoganGod wrote:
HardAttack wrote:Andrew and all the ppl whoever supports the idea of there should be a score bareer to join in a game.
Listen all, i respect all the answers and comments you ladies and gentlemen entered. This is not an objective situation, some might like and take CC a way to have fun with whatever a game results with, some other may take it a bit more serious, would put more time and effort and also strategy etc. As you ppl see, this is not an objective situation. All has their own ways to deal with the problem. This situation s slightly becoming and turning into a way to say i like green olives and the other says that he likes black olives and both supports and try to impose their idea to be better and even true one. Anyway, this is preference of free souls mates. Some may like green ones, some other may like black ones. No one should try to proove that green ones are better or vice versa. Same here, some like a barrier should exist because they believe the games with alike scored players would result a more challenging games, and some would not like the idea. There is no point on keep this going on.

The main problem here, less than % 10 of high rankers are aware of there is a room, that is for 2000+ or 2500+ players only.
As far as i see, this suggestion will not work, will not take its place in future of CC. That is what my previous exprience tells me.
Then, andrew and other high rankers, there must be a way to increase the efficiency of callout 2000+ 2500+ subforums. I dont know how we may do it, maybe for a while we all need to advertise it in our banners, or in our profiles, linking it yu know..
We all have our clan banners in our profile pages, but think of this, those rooms are suffering from most of ppl do not know what it is where it is and how to use of it. Lets advertise it for 2 months or maybe 3. I believe the use efficiency will rise up, ppl who are using it will rise up. This will not bring an ultimate solution to the matter but will do good some.


I agree with most of what you've written here mate.
I very much doubt that rank selection will ever happen on public games, the mods/admins much prefer keeping themselves busy with complaints about farming, when most players over 1800points would much not have noobs and cooks join their games. If you start a public game and ? marks jump in your accused or been a farmer. If you make private games, you end up playing the same people, again and again... GRRRRRRRRR makes the site bloody boring. Nothing we can do though


There is something we can do, i am preparing a banner right now and will post the link many ppl i know that they will hopefully set it to be their signature. The idea of that signature is that to popularize the Major+ Callout room. If rank bareer is never gonna take place here, then we should increase the use efficiency of what we have got in our hands. The problem here is that only % 10 of all major or above ppl know/use that call out room. It is not functioning properly you know. Lets move it on, lets speed it up. Lets make it popular once again.
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby HardAttack on Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:47 am

Code: Select all
[url=http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=62216][img]http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/hardattack/rank_7600150copy.jpg?t=1248439274[/img][/url]


Those who would like to advertise and also try to rise the popularity of Major's games only section of callout forum,
feel free to copy whatever inside in code tag, then paste as your signature.
:D
Last edited by HardAttack on Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Allow Low rank only games

Postby PLAYER57832 on Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:08 am

Blinkadyblink wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:If someone gets too high before the game starts, then they will be dropped.

:lol:

But, seriously, I do like this suggestion. When I was a private, I always had a hard time finding games without high ranks (although I think I judged high ranks as sergeants and up.) This would have a benefit for high-ranking players too; if more low ranks play amongst themselves, then they won't be playing in the high ranks' games.

Exactly, but lo ranks who feel they are capable can still take on the higher ranked players, so there won't be an artificial ceiling.

That is the biggest problem with high rank limit games. Too many go up and then decide they "should not" lose points to anyone of lower rank, even get angry if they do lose.

(that said, I can see allowing those at the very, very top setting a limit.. mostly just those in true running for conquerer. However, most of those folks only play private games anyway).
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby Vermont on Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:28 am

I'm not sure why so many of you are assuming a rank option would be mandatory given how many other optional game settings CC has.

* If you are concerned you won't have enough players join your game, don't use it.
* If you don't care what rank you play, don't use it.
* If you want to give low ranking players a chance, don't use it.
* If you play game settings where you have a hard time finding players, don't use it.

Just have a simple dropdown for OPTIONAL minimum rank. If you don't want to use it, don't use it! Perhaps you play a game type where this is less of an issue (teams, for example.) Then having this option impairs you in no way whatsoever, since you probably won't pick it.

Let me put this another way. Right now most people above a certain rank create a private game that can only be played by people above a certain rank that happen to know the special password can join, assuming they check the thread to see if a game exists. (Please tell me you realize how clunky that sounds.)

If you add a min rank OPTION (not required!) as a game setting you are effectively creating a private game that can only that only be played by people above a certain rank (same as above)- and that can be easily found using the game finder. The net result is a simpler process with more, easy to find, games. Otherwise it is the same!

If you WANT to play people somewhat near your rank, WHY do you need to jump through silly hoops that aren't consistent with the rest of the game creation/joining process. I shouldn't have to go find a thread, post in the forum, and use a secret password just to get a decent speed game going. Not at all speedy!

I'm still waiting for an articulate rebuttal to this post below and (maybe I've missed it) I have not seen it.

Vermont wrote:The reason this idea gets suggested so often is that when you first come here you can easily use 'Start a game' and 'Game finder' to find games with people within 300 (or pick another arbitrary number of your choosing) points of yourself easily. There are tons of games and you can always find a reasonable speed game.

However, after you climb a few ranks you realize that (almost) no one creates public games anymore. All of a sudden if you want to play games you need to happen to ask someone or search the forum, find a specific thread, get sent a password and maybe then you can join a game.

What compelling reason is there to make people jump through these hoops? They are in effect going through these manual steps to play games with people somewhat near their rank.

Basically - we DO have a rank barrier currently, but it is artificial, clunky and non-obvious. Why not make it something more straightforward and consistent with the rest of the game setup?
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby Mr_Adams on Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:24 am

Maybe we could get lack to set up an automatic pm notifying people of the callouts threads when they reach the appropriate rank for said thread. That would greatly raise awareness for the thread. my guess is that ove 75% of the officers don't venture into the forums and therefore have no idea what officers mess and the 2000+ thread are, or that they exsist.
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby HardAttack on Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:37 am

Mr_Adams wrote:Maybe we could get lack to set up an automatic pm notifying people of the callouts threads when they reach the appropriate rank for said thread. That would greatly raise awareness for the thread. my guess is that ove 75% of the officers don't venture into the forums and therefore have no idea what officers mess and the 2000+ thread are, or that they exsist.


Will not work !!! Why should lack make such a script ? What should he encourage ppl to visit 2000+ games ? He is the boss and we are all customers. You are just a customer, his care is all about the site but not some particular one. He is simply managing a business here. Giving desicions based on to make whole community happy but not a portion of it. Lack is not the one who wants to join in 2000+ games. Leave him alone and look what you (we) can do.
It is you me andrew and many more ppl. Those who likes to play with alike skilled ppl.
Instead of asking that, help me via taking my signature and setting it yours as well. Lets advertise it. Some while after more and mroe ppl will know that there is something called as 2000+ games in callouts.
You and others are talking just here, guess what, how many ppl regularly visitting here ? What percentage of ppl reading this stuff and giving attention ?
Come on, such a stuff will never take place in CC. CC will remain without any rank limitations. Then we are left with one unique option, that is, to have more ppl interetsed in and visitting 2000+ regularly. Once it starts to work, then everything is almost done. Dont you see it ?
Just help me, not only you but all of you whoever asks and demands for such a bareer or say rank care games. Speak talk write is no matter, it is time to move. Show how much you support the idea. You all have your clan banners there. It is already in usergroup field in your profiles, then why is it neccesary to put very inside of my eyes back again ? Come on, make something useful and put this BANNER in your signature field, then support the 2000+. Iam not asking anything for my favor, i will get nothing from this, see ? Whatever you do, support or not will serve callouts to work more efficiently or not.
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby Mr_Adams on Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:50 am

trhat's what that is? That's awsome! HA, you are a do'er
any captains out there want to make a captain's one?
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby HardAttack on Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:14 pm

Mr_Adams wrote:trhat's what that is? That's awsome! HA, you are a do'er
any captains out there want to make a captain's one?


Whatever you are captain liutenant or major, we do not need to make signatures for all....
Simple, when you catch attention on callouts, say 2000+ ones, then ppl will know there are also 1800+ room even 1600+ rooms etc.
You dont need to change it everytime you go down to captain or back to major again.
Take me for example, i am no major... I should have advertised the colonel room. But no, i am not doing it.
2 reasons, 1st there not many colonels then majors room is better to advertise, 2nd major's room is the best place to catch and protect this idea. It is a good bareer. Your being a captain should not prevent you support this, and should not prevent you to dress this sig. You are captain today, major tomorrow. It has got nothing to do with a player's current rank. This is a simple advertisement for all of us to catcht the demanded ryhtim of callouts. Especially 2000+ rooms.

I dont know if it is neccesary, to repeat myself once again, any who will see and visit the 2000+ thread, then he will visit 1800+ 1600+ as well.

Assume you are an investor, you dont need to advertise all the products you sell. Just pick one, and show it to the public. Once you have ppl visiting your shop, then they also will see other products you are selling.

If you have any difficulty on setting your signature same with mine, then feel free to PM to me for any further help.
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby Thezzaruz on Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:10 pm

Vermont wrote:I'm not sure why so many of you are assuming a rank option would be mandatory given how many other optional game settings CC has.


Oh I don't assume it would be mandatory, in fact I have stated that I can't ever imagine it being that. However AndrewB stated that he wanted it to be a mandatory barrier and hence I have discussed that view when responding to him.
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:55 pm

Vermont wrote:I'm not sure why so many of you are assuming a rank option would be mandatory given how many other optional game settings CC has.


What you say is true, however...we're discussing the suggestion as presented (which was not that it would be optional).
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby Vermont on Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:31 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Vermont wrote:I'm not sure why so many of you are assuming a rank option would be mandatory given how many other optional game settings CC has.


What you say is true, however...we're discussing the suggestion as presented (which was not that it would be optional).


Ah, ok. Should I then post in a separate thread? I do not want to clutter this one up anymore than I already have.
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby Woodruff on Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:28 pm

Vermont wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Vermont wrote:I'm not sure why so many of you are assuming a rank option would be mandatory given how many other optional game settings CC has.


What you say is true, however...we're discussing the suggestion as presented (which was not that it would be optional).


Ah, ok. Should I then post in a separate thread? I do not want to clutter this one up anymore than I already have.


I don't think that's necessary (personally...I don't know what anyone else thinks). As long as you're clear about the aspect or difference that you're discussing (in this case, it being optional), I don't think it's "clutter" at all...perhaps it is focus.
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Re: Make a rank barrier for game entry

Postby Thezzaruz on Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:53 pm

Woodruff wrote:What you say is true, however...we're discussing the suggestion as presented (which was not that it would be optional).


Actually the OP said "optional" but as he disappeared and AndrewB showed up saying "mandatory" the focus has somewhat changed. Either way I would keep both in the same thread as they are just small variations on the same suggestion. Just be clear and it should be no problem for us.
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God Damn Newbies !!...

Postby Sun Su on Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:41 pm

It would be nice to filter the players by their level...... this is so irrational, you've got suicid players, players that help others to win, they miss their turns, they win by pure irrational luck and you lose 100 pts........ I was 6pts away from the swords.... played a few newbies, had bad dice and played a few more newbies... I'm now Sergeant 1st Class..... it's like you kill 5 of'em, you lose twice and you're in for a good -150 pts !

I've got this feeling it's like the casino : the house always win.

We need to filter those suckers !
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Re: God Damn Newbies !!...

Postby Vermont on Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:28 am

I have suggested elsewhere that there should be two new features in Start a Game:
- Minimum Rank
- Maximum Rank

These would of course be optional, but would allow new players to play only other new players if they want, or higher ranked players to play each other without having to somehow learn to check the forum, learn a password, and hope that one of the the few other players that use this method is around. (Yes, it's that clunky currently.)

It would let more public games to be created and searched on and simplify the process.
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Re: God Damn Newbies !!...

Postby squishyg on Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:31 pm

I think the concern with this suggestion is that new players would be frustrated by the lack of games they would be allowed to play if such a filter was put in place. If new players don't join, new premium accounts don't get purchased.
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Re: God Damn Newbies !!...

Postby Vermont on Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:26 pm

At this point how often do high ranking players create public (non-team) games anyway? Many have to go through the clunky process I've mentioned already to find a game. This may not be a problem with slow games, but it definitely is for speed games. Try doing a search for speed games at different times of day for a few days and you'll see what I mean.

With a feature like this, you would still have games new players can't join, but at least now the high level players wouldn't have to jump through hoops (assuming they've even discovered in the forum that there's a secret (as in not part of the provided UI) way to play with other people your own rank.
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Re: God Damn Newbies !!...

Postby neanderpaul14 on Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:50 pm

Sun Su wrote:It would be nice to filter the players by their level...... this is so irrational, you've got suicid players, players that help others to win, they miss their turns, they win by pure irrational luck and you lose 100 pts........ I was 6pts away from the swords.... played a few newbies, had bad dice and played a few more newbies... I'm now Sergeant 1st Class..... it's like you kill 5 of'em, you lose twice and you're in for a good -150 pts !

I've got this feeling it's like the casino : the house always win.

We need to filter those suckers !



You might wanna check out this thread in callouts section:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=33055

It's for sergeants and up to create private games amongst each other, and as you climb in the ranks there are other similar threads for various ranks.

Simply go to thread and request the password, then play some private games.
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Re: God Damn Newbies !!...

Postby Rustovitch on Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:07 pm

I am basically a newbie myself, but as I just lost a game due to a complete idiot of a sucidal cook who constantly attacked me over and above the main threat to him I can understand this.
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Re: God Damn Newbies !!...

Postby Artimis on Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:33 am

Sun Su wrote:It would be nice to filter the players by their level...... this is so irrational, you've got suicid players, players that help others to win, they miss their turns, they win by pure irrational luck and you lose 100 pts........ I was 6pts away from the swords.... played a few newbies, had bad dice and played a few more newbies... I'm now Sergeant 1st Class..... it's like you kill 5 of'em, you lose twice and you're in for a good -150 pts !

I've got this feeling it's like the casino : the house always win.

We need to filter those suckers !


Four things you need to consider before posting:

  • SEARCH! First off, search. Search! Search, search, search, SEARCH! This has been suggested so many times already, it's also been rejected because it would not improve the gaming experience of the majority, in fact it would improve the gaming experience of the minority at the expense of the majority. So this will never happen, ever! You would be aware of this if you had just searched the forum even once.

  • Use the form, noob! Rather than just impatiently deleting the text that appeared in your post typing box, how about you read it and shape your suggestions or bug reports accordingly so that it's easier for the Sug & Bugs mod to process? I'm certain Sully800 would apprciate you making the effort also.

  • Private games. Thirdly, as has already been mentioned, you can make private games and invite only those players that you deem skilled or otherwise qualified enough to join your games. No more irrational suiciders, problem solved.

  • Even you were new once And finally, everyone's got to start somewhere, if you start to segregate users according to rank then you end up with a points aristocracy that imposes a glass ceiling on all new comers regardless of skill. This doesn't benefit the community in any way, shape or form


There you go, all the answers you could want and more, don't say I didn't give you anything.....
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This post was sponsored by Far-Q Industries.

Far-Q Industries: Telling you where to go since 2008.
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Re: God Damn Newbies !!...

Postby redhawk92 on Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:17 am

this has been suggested before :D
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Minimum & Maximum Rank Options

Postby Vermont on Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:53 am

Concise description:
  • Add two additional options to the 'Start a Game' screen; one for minimum rank and one for maximum rank.

Specifics:
  • Here is a screenshot:
    Image
  • Values would be set to every so many hundred points. Maybe every 300 or 500, or bigger ranges as scores increase. This particular aspect is debatable for optimal settings.
  • A player would not have the option to set a min rank higher than their own or a max rank lower than their own. (Those options would not be part of the drop down list).
  • This is a reasonably easy code change.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • Players of various levels could actually start games for each other. Currently, they need to somehow learn there is a specific forum thread, learn a secret password, and hope someone has started a game. They can start one themselves but then it is only open to other players who are aware of this artificial, clunky, non-obvious process. What compelling reason is there to make people jump through these hoops? They are in effect going through these manual steps to play games with people somewhat near their rank.
  • This would reduce farming accusations for the higher ranked players that want to add a public game.
  • New players would be able to play other games against only other new players, if they prefer.
  • Players would meet more new players. As it is, many players only play against other players that are aware of the special process for playing people your own level.
  • Both settings are optional so you still keep all existing games the way they are.
  • Game finder actually becomes useful again for these types of games. I can't tell you how often speed games are searched on and there is nothing from players other than the lowest ranks, since all the others are being done privately (since an option like this does not exist.)

Note:
  • I am aware that similar ideas have been proposed, but I don't believe one specifically like this has been. I believe it eliminates many of the negatives people responded with. I am against a "hard" rank barrier that prevents people from playing lower/higher ranked players always. I am against keeping rank exclusion secret and based on a password. I am against only players in certain ranges being able to play each other at all times.
  • The bottom line is that people can still create games exactly the same way they do now, if they want to. It also lets people who are using this non-obvious process to play similar players to do so now easily, consistently, and far more openly.
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Re: Minimum & Maximum Rank Options

Postby Thezzaruz on Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:39 am

Vermont wrote:I am aware that similar ideas have been proposed, but I don't believe one specifically like this has been.


Oh it has... :mrgreen:


Vermont wrote:I believe it eliminates many of the negatives people responded with.


Possible but it still means that rank segregation would be officially condoned and that is the primary reason for it being rejected.
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Re: Minimum & Maximum Rank Options

Postby Vermont on Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:17 am

But rank segregation is already going on. Just do the occasional search on speed games and that is obvious. Does it matter if it is condoned or not, if it is occurring 90% of the time anyway?

This solution would actually reduce the problem as people could control the range they want and lead to more games being opened up and being searched on.

And this wouldn't be strict segregation anyway. Players would be able to control the min/max ranges of the games they open. This is far different than the other rank segregation ideas that have been presented. I know that is the knee-jerk response, but I believe this to be a reasonable solution to an obscure, inconsistent, game creation/searching process.
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