Rank Restricted Games

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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Tezu on Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:04 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:Lol Andy Dufresne isn't the owner, he is the Community Manager. lackattack is the Webmaster, and he is the turtle around here. Don't know what he likes to eat though.

But of course if anyone wants the suggestion that Joshy brought up, they should probably open up a new thread, as this one is related to Rank Segregation.


This is NOT about rank segregation, it's about protection of newbs!!! The invite games are restricted to people you already know, and that makes it harder to play against new people... This is about protecting players against getting hostile comments for being newbs... I'm sick of biting my tongue so I won't hurt the feelings of people who ruin games for everyone else!!!
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:05 pm

Tezu wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:Lol Andy Dufresne isn't the owner, he is the Community Manager. lackattack is the Webmaster, and he is the turtle around here. Don't know what he likes to eat though.

But of course if anyone wants the suggestion that Joshy brought up, they should probably open up a new thread, as this one is related to Rank Segregation.


This is NOT about rank segregation, it's about protection of newbs!!! The invite games are restricted to people you already know, and that makes it harder to play against new people... This is about protecting players against getting hostile comments for being newbs... I'm sick of biting my tongue so I won't hurt the feelings of people who ruin games for everyone else!!!


Yeah, that's my 5 am mind talking for me. Sorry, meant to put Rank Restriction. But I did talk to a higher up power earlier, he says that they are aware of various rank limitation/restrictions, and that lack may look into the suggestion in some sort of form or iteration.
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The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Daggerheart on Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:43 am

I returned to CC after 1 year of abscense and found the same reason I left still present. CC aims to make players happy in many ways, lot of options and possibilities. Or as an moderator here so nicely put it: "Free bananas for all!". After some games I am now leaving CC again. I and I want to say once more why: There is a terrible flaw in the matchmaking/rating system. It should not be necessary to only make private invite games to play vs players around you own rating level. I really can't see that this will damage the scoreboard, the general players experience or anything! I want to repeat this: "Selecting players to your game is allready allowed!!!!" BUT it's tiresome to send invites and I personally thinks that the option of handpicking your opponents to rated games are alot more unlogical at a site where the ratingssystem is so present (hitting players you know are weaker than yourself/your team... if that is your choice)...

Concise description:
  • Please add an option to the matchmaking allowing rating requirements
  • Change the way "invite only" games work and hide your opponents until the game starts

Specifics/Details:

One of these two would solve the flaw:
  • Add an option under "Start A Game" so only players with a ratingdifference of -100/+100 could join your game
  • Add an option under "Start A Game" so only players with one rank higher or lower could join your game

    Other suggestions that would also benefit the site:

  • Add an option so that players below a certain rating can't join the game. Cooks that jump games must find another cook game :P
  • If one of the options above is added, remove the rating points for the invite only games completely. Only give rating points for "open" games and tournament games. When creating "open" games the opponents are hidden until the game starts! Yeah, that would teach the rating "farmers" a lesson! Note: You CAN invite and see your team members

Personally I like the first suggestion best together with the change in the invite only games!

Important: Please note that when the game have started the players rating at the start of the game is used when calculating the rating win/loss in the end!

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • This would only make more people happy, at least I would :-) Since it's just an option you can still make games free for everybody.
  • It would give an increased sense of fairness to CC and make the scoreboard an interesting place

I would like to talk personally with the owner of this site... could a moderator please send him a message that I want to talk to him? I don't want to piss him off by trying to make a contact myself...
Last edited by Daggerheart on Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:44 pm, edited 18 times in total.
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Arama86n on Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:48 am

Slightly off topic but;

You play almost exclusivly 1v1, so why not just throw up 50 waiting games, make password standard for (2000+ Majors & above) in callouts, ask that no player join more than 3-5 games cause you'd like variation. violá
Hell with that setup you prolly wouldn't even need to bother posting links, 1v1's always fill, just write for interested people to go to your profile and find a waiting game, cause they all have same password.

Just got to use a little imagination.
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby hmsps on Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:13 am

i tottally agree with Daggerhearts suggestion. This would also help lower ranked players so they can set up games without the fear of being farmed by certain players (although its not against the rules but it is against the spirit and does not enhance the experience of lower ranked/less experienced players).
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Daggerheart on Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:55 am

Thanks for the support. NOW it's time to address this issue to the owner! :-)
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby TheForgivenOne on Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:38 pm

Daggerheart wrote:Thanks for the support. NOW it's time to address this issue to the owner! :-)


Just because 2 people agree with you, does not mean it's going to be forwarded.

But this is from a thread a week or two ago.

TheForgivenOne wrote:I did talk to a higher up power earlier, he says that they are aware of various rank limitation/restrictions, and that lack may look into the suggestion in some sort of form or iteration.


But, it's on the back burner of things to do, so you may not see it for quite a while.
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Daggerheart on Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:01 pm

Ok, TheForgivenOne, then I put my trust in you... please get the leader guy to read my thread... that's the only thing I ask for...

Because... I know I took the bull by the horn this time... and actually I think you know it too...
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby hmsps on Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:59 pm

i really dont think that as a suggestions moderator you should be so dismissive, you will only hamper creativity. It will stop the likes of Crash22, alstergen and other famring pts off lower ranks if lower ranks dont want them to. An example of this in the last 2 weeks is that the lower rank has dropped the game due to the higher ranks joining such as a colonel and brig. It seems to me we are happy to call it farming when we could get money off these people but once they join we really don't give one.
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby hmsps on Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:04 pm

As a side note these 2 dropped the game when i joined before my partner took up the invite so these things will continue to happen until you do something about it. And just because only 2 people agree doesnt make it any less a valid suggestion
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Queen_Herpes on Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:25 pm

I agree. Czech out my sug:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Daggerheart on Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:07 am

hmsps wrote:As a side note these 2 dropped the game when i joined before my partner took up the invite so these things will continue to happen until you do something about it. And just because only 2 people agree doesnt make it any less a valid suggestion


Yes, this is a serious issue. We are talking about farming and a system that let you choose your opponents in matches that gives rating points... this is worse than the boxing federations.

The scoreboard is a bloody joke!

I tought this site was run by people with logic and brains?

I really like CC, and now it needs to take the step from good to superb...

I "demand" to talk to the owner of this site before I leave for good!
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby TheForgivenOne on Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:43 am

Well, lackattack does not accept PM's, he is currently on vacation, and as i said, they are considering a rank limitation/restriction. You seriously can't expect these kind of updates to happen overnight.
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Daggerheart on Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:13 am

I really hope alot of you people out there make a comment to this post. This issue must be dealt with. Thanks.
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby MichelSableheart on Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:30 pm

To be honest, I really don't see the need for this suggestion. Coming from a mainly standard multiplayer experience, it's extremely rare that players are so outclassed that the enjoyment of the game suffers. Most of the time, playing vs. a higher rank is a good learning experience, and playing against lower ranks should give you a fun game.

The only reason I can see to limit the opponents you can play against to players of your own level is because you are concerned about losing too many points against lower ranked opponents. But frankly, that's part of the ELO like scoring system we use. It's necessary for the ranking to remain a good indicator of someone's abilities.
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Daggerheart on Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:46 am

MichelSableheart wrote:To be honest, I really don't see the need for this suggestion. Coming from a mainly standard multiplayer experience, it's extremely rare that players are so outclassed that the enjoyment of the game suffers. Most of the time, playing vs. a higher rank is a good learning experience, and playing against lower ranks should give you a fun game.

The only reason I can see to limit the opponents you can play against to players of your own level is because you are concerned about losing too many points against lower ranked opponents. But frankly, that's part of the ELO like scoring system we use. It's necessary for the ranking to remain a good indicator of someone's abilities.



That's the main problem now, the scoreboard/ranking is not an good indicator of your abilities...

Several here have stated that a player who enjoy playing 8 player games is doing a very well job if he/she wins 30% of these matches... since the average win rate with 8 players are far less. But a 30% win rate against random rated opponents will kill your rating in no time. Many of the high rated players now (not all but many)... they play carefully selected games...

This is why CC is worse than the boxing federations:

1) You can select the players you want to your matches, RATED matches, by the invite system
2) You can foe players that you know will usually beat you, example: in "open" 1vs1 speed matches
3) Leave matches if certain players join
4) High ranked players team up with cooks with 500 points so that they win more points... who control the cook? the guy's brother probably!

In the boxing federation they can stall a boxer for a long, long time... but if that boxer performs ... they can't keep him from a title match forever...

I really want to return playing CC. I really hope this will be addressed this autumn.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Queen_Herpes on Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:52 pm

Givign players the option to segregate would be nice...
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Starting A Game !!Rank!!

Postby SneakySheep on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:58 pm

.
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Re: Starting A Game !!Rank!!

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:02 pm

Try searching through the forum. Already been suggested. Merging
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:04 pm

After deliberation, i am merging this into Tezu's.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby SneakySheep on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:31 pm

its not about protecting newbs how many times do i have to make a game only to have it fill up with privates, cadets and cooks then have cooks suicide into me

i want to be able to make a world 2.1 game and have it fill up with some players that have a idea about risk

im not here to teach newbs how to play im here to play some good games of risk, i dont like to play risk if the games going to end by round 10 thats not risk its just plain gay

i understand that you think it might hurt new players joining but ffs use your brain make it sargents and above that still gives cooks a wide range of people to suicide into but lets people who want a good strategic game to play

if your not going to look after the players you have that PAY to play then wats the point n even having new people join once they get some games under there belt there just going to end up posting in this tread or make 1 like it

i love CC but i love a good game of risk more its not like you HAVE to have a ranking option when making a game thats y its called a option

sorry if i offended people but im sick of this world and its P.C bull sh*t be real
when your new at a game you dont join a game with elite players because of course your going to get owned
does World of warCraft let you raid a lvl 80 dungeon when your lvl 1? no you start small and work your way up :roll:
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:34 pm

SneakySheep wrote:its not about protecting newbs how many times do i have to make a game only to have it fill up with privates, cadets and cooks then have cooks suicide into me

i want to be able to make a world 2.1 game and have it fill up with some players that have a idea about risk

im not here to teach newbs how to play im here to play some good games of risk, i dont like to play risk if the games going to end by round 10 thats not risk its just plain gay

i understand that you think it might hurt new players joining but ffs use your brain make it sargents and above that still gives cooks a wide range of people to suicide into but lets people who want a good strategic game to play

if your not going to look after the players you have that PAY to play then wats the point n even having new people join once they get some games under there belt there just going to end up posting in this tread or make 1 like it

i love CC but i love a good game of risk more its not like you HAVE to have a ranking option when making a game thats y its called a option

sorry if i offended people but im sick of this world and its P.C bull sh*t be real
when your new at a game you dont join a game with elite players because of course your going to get owned
does World of warCraft let you raid a lvl 80 dungeon when your lvl 1? no you start small and work your way up :roll:


I know, but if you actually what tezu was asking for, then you would have realized that she said this.
tezu wrote:Add an option when creating games which defines the minimum and maximum rank a player must have to join that game.


The thread was initially started for New Recruits, but it does include everyone.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby SneakySheep on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:59 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:So new recruits would be less likely to stay and ultimately purchase premium because they would have a more negative experience by playing in games with more deadbeats like themselves. Along with the fact point segregation is bad.


if your all about making money then i must be on the wrong site im not here to make you guys rich im here to play risk with good players

TheForgivenOne wrote:How are lower ranks supposed to learn if they can't find an open game against a higher rank? They will just keep learning bad strategies.

yes thats true you can only learn to play risk by playing but thats y i said sargent and above that still gives newbs good players to play then if players can't learn that suicide is a bad idea when there playing people there own rank then they will just end up staying at the bottom

i make world 2.1 games and dont look at them until they have started if i get a PM about how im farming then whos fault is that?

as i said i love CC i'd like to see CC grow so theres over 100 speed games going at all times
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:14 pm

SneakySheep wrote:

i make world 2.1 games and dont look at them until they have started if i get a PM about how im farming then whos fault is that?



And if you actually follow'd C&A reports, you would realize that you'd have to have an extensive amount of games for farming to come into play. You'd have to create a ton of games, have only New Recruits join them, realize this, then keep creating this same type of game to be considered farming.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby hmsps on Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:07 am

7430954 and 743095 is precisely why this should be imnplemented i get a cook join, i ask him on his wall, (still there) politely to read chat and not miss turns and what does he do, yup misses turns. I have no problem partnering anyone but I should be able to set parameters to who joins my games either on a pts or ratings basis. I see plenty of enhancements to this site and strongly feel this would be a good addition.
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