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Re: enable only certain ranks to join new games

Postby TheForgivenOne on Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:25 pm

Let me ask you this. How many majors and Colonels like to play against a cook? They gain what? 6 points for a win? And risk something like 50-60 points
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Re: enable only certain ranks to join new games

Postby TheForgivenOne on Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:27 pm

But as said before, and shown to you, this has been rejected numerous times, so i will be merging/moving this to Rejected
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Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Filter

Postby Tezu on Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:17 am

I know this has been proposed over and over, and rejected over and over again, but please, read the arguments in this thread.

Concise description:
  • Help newbies protect themselves against farmers and hostile comments by adding Rank/Point Filtering

Specifics/Details:
  • Add an option when creating games which defines the minimum and maximum rank a player must have to join that game.
  • Add the same option when searching for games to join.
  • Maybe add this option not so much as a restriction but as a proposal, so players know if they are welcome or not in a game, and can decide if they wanna join even if the other players don't want them there.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • When I first joined this site, I avoided joining games with lieutenants and above, sometimes I joined a game, and later, when it started, I discovered with horror that a high ranking player had joined the game. This could have been avoided with a rank filter which would have allowed me to see what kind of players would join.
  • The first few months I was part of this community I got involved in games with high ranked players, and messed up their games by making bad moves, this, of course, made them angry, and I received more than one hostile comment for those mistakes. Now, I find myself supporting if not making those kind of comments to new players. I know, rude players can be reported, but a rude hostile comment doesn't hurt as much as a polite one, and those can't be reported! So, why would we wanna expose new players to a situation that probably will make them leave the site for good? Like I've read somewhere in these forums, we can only make ONE first impression, why would we risk someone's first impression to be a hostile one?
  • There have been some reports about newb-farming because a player sets up a lot of games in a specific setting, and a lot of newbs join them. I was one of those players who got accused once... I used to set up games in Feudal for 4, 5 or 6 players, and a lot of newbs joined the 4 and 5 player ones, I got a warning and had to stop playing the 4 and 5 players games altogether, so I wouldn't be accused of farming. Those who play Feudal know that having an empty castle in the game, gives it a whole new dynamic, but I had to stop playing that specific setting. If I had been able to filter by rank, it wouldn't have been an issue.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Darwins_Bane on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:07 pm

If i were a farmer I would have a field day with this setting if it were implemented.

EDIT:
now that I have a few more mins to take a look at a sugg, here's why I disagree with it.
1. I personally feel that more high ranks will consistently target low ranks due to the fact that your sugg would make this easier.
2. It would be easier to farm
3. If you implement the join anyways button that would make it even easier to target low ranks.
4. There is already a limiting of NR's game options till they get some experience.
5. it would widen the rank segregation.

I would suggest if you are looking for games against a certain rank you post in the callouts forum.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Tezu on Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:32 pm

How will high ranks target lower ranks if they are prohibited to join their games?

Let's say I'm a cadet, so I'll set up a game in which the only ranks allowed are cooks through privates, how do you think a high ranking player is going to target me?
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby TheForgivenOne on Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:46 pm

Tezu wrote:How will high ranks target lower ranks if they are prohibited to join their games?

Let's say I'm a cadet, so I'll set up a game in which the only ranks allowed are cooks through privates, how do you think a high ranking player is going to target me?


Because high ranks will set games where only low ranks can join
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Darwins_Bane on Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:45 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:Because high ranks will set games where only low ranks can join

+1

I just want to add that low ranks often like to join the games made by high ranks.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Tezu on Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:56 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:
Tezu wrote:How will high ranks target lower ranks if they are prohibited to join their games?

Let's say I'm a cadet, so I'll set up a game in which the only ranks allowed are cooks through privates, how do you think a high ranking player is going to target me?


Because high ranks will set games where only low ranks can join


Obviously the option of filtering I'm proposing has to be so that if I make a restriction, my rank has to be in that frame, otherwise I can't join my own game!!! Plus, there can be another restriction, If I make a game available for players 2 ranks below me, it has to be open for players 2 ranks above me... maybe not even sort it by rank, just make a filter where I can decide how many points apart from my own points the players joining have to be... for example, if I set it up so that players have to be at most 100 points apart from me, players with 100 points less and 100 more than me can join...
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:26 am

The reason this won't be done is that they believe if new recruits are less able to join games with high rankers, that means they are going to be playing with themselves more often. Games with new recruits are generally less enjoyable because they tend to deadbeat or suicide more often than experienced players. So new recruits would be less likely to stay and ultimately purchase premium because they would have a more negative experience by playing in games with more deadbeats like themselves. Along with the fact point segregation is bad. How are lower ranks supposed to learn if they can't find an open game against a higher rank? They will just keep learning bad strategies.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Daggerheart on Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:00 am

Tezu wrote:Obviously the option of filtering I'm proposing has to be so that if I make a restriction, my rank has to be in that frame, otherwise I can't join my own game!!! Plus, there can be another restriction, If I make a game available for players 2 ranks below me, it has to be open for players 2 ranks above me... maybe not even sort it by rank, just make a filter where I can decide how many points apart from my own points the players joining have to be... for example, if I set it up so that players have to be at most 100 points apart from me, players with 100 points less and 100 more than me can join...


Yes, Tezu is very much touching the thing that has to be changed to CC. I should not be "forced" to make only games where I have to set passwords and invite players to get matches with the rating I want...

If you are able to set a restriction (as one of the options) for your games (Tenzu's example -100/+100)... this would be taken care of... and THIS stuff is ALLREADY happening... so why not make it easier? So you don't need all the invite work??

Of course this is an OPTION... you can still join or make games WITHOUT this option...
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:18 am

The owner has said it before, he does not like this suggestion. He does not approve of rank segregation. Sure, people do it, so why make it easier? And you can't always say "Well let's just make it an option" Because this site would be over run with so many settings, and so many features, that new players would be completely lost. You guys would have to convince lackattack that this idea has more pro's then con's.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Daggerheart on Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:12 am

No kidding... guess we need a new owner then...

Add the -100/+100 and option, make all the "invite only" games non-ranked games and this site would be more interesting.
Last edited by Daggerheart on Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby JoshyBoy on Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:15 am

Rank segregation is firmly opposed here at CC. We believe in peace, love, equality, and bananas for all! :)

Speaking of bananas... has anyone seen Andy recently? I think he's hiding from me. :roll:
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Daggerheart on Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:19 am

JoshyBoy wrote:Rank segregation is firmly opposed here at CC. We believe in peace, love, equality, and bananas for all! :)

Speaking of bananas... has anyone seen Andy recently? I think he's hiding from me. :roll:


I think JoshyBoy captured the essence here... we need a new leadership of CC...

The rank segregration is allready allowed in the present system by the invite system... I have not seen so many bananas yet though...
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby JoshyBoy on Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:22 am

I apologise for the double post, but wouldn't a better suggestion be something like "New recruits can only play a maximum rank of Private 1st Class for the first 5/10 games" for example? You would make this automatic, don't ask me how :lol: , and then once they have finished 10/20 games, they can play up to a Sergeant 1st Class until they have completed 15/20 games. Then once they have played that amount of games they "unlock" the officer ranks. lol I sound like Queen_Herpes.

That sort of idea would be more feasible surely?

*edit* fastposted by Daggerheart, thanks. *edit*
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:23 am

Well, the invite system is mainly used to play with friends, or against friends. Also used for tournies. It has more uses than to just segregate. But if you want to overthrow the guy who created this site for you, well, have fun with that.


JoshyBoy wrote:I apologise for the double post, but wouldn't a better suggestion be something like "New recruits can only play a maximum rank of Private 1st Class for the first 5/10 games" for example? You would make this automatic, don't ask me how :lol: , and then once they have finished 10/20 games, they can play up to a Sergeant 1st Class until they have completed 15/20 games. Then once they have played that amount of games they "unlock" the officer ranks.

That sort of idea would be more feasible surely?


Well, that's sort of referring to QH's suggestion, but instead of settings, you are doing ranks.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Daggerheart on Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:32 am

Why do "invite only" games give ranking points at all?? Things don't make sence...

The current system of course gives players the option to choose the rank of the players...

Yes unlocking the option to play against players two levels higher you is a good way too.... (two levels over and two levels under). Tournaments would still of course be open for all.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:56 am

Lol AndyDufresne isn't the owner, he is the Community Manager. lackattack is the Webmaster, and he is the turtle around here. Don't know what he likes to eat though.

But of course if anyone wants the suggestion that Joshy brought up, they should probably open up a new thread, as this one is related to Rank Segregation.
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby Tezu on Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:04 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:Lol Andy Dufresne isn't the owner, he is the Community Manager. lackattack is the Webmaster, and he is the turtle around here. Don't know what he likes to eat though.

But of course if anyone wants the suggestion that Joshy brought up, they should probably open up a new thread, as this one is related to Rank Segregation.


This is NOT about rank segregation, it's about protection of newbs!!! The invite games are restricted to people you already know, and that makes it harder to play against new people... This is about protecting players against getting hostile comments for being newbs... I'm sick of biting my tongue so I won't hurt the feelings of people who ruin games for everyone else!!!
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Re: Let newbies protect temselves from farming with Rank Fil

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:05 pm

Tezu wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:Lol Andy Dufresne isn't the owner, he is the Community Manager. lackattack is the Webmaster, and he is the turtle around here. Don't know what he likes to eat though.

But of course if anyone wants the suggestion that Joshy brought up, they should probably open up a new thread, as this one is related to Rank Segregation.


This is NOT about rank segregation, it's about protection of newbs!!! The invite games are restricted to people you already know, and that makes it harder to play against new people... This is about protecting players against getting hostile comments for being newbs... I'm sick of biting my tongue so I won't hurt the feelings of people who ruin games for everyone else!!!


Yeah, that's my 5 am mind talking for me. Sorry, meant to put Rank Restriction. But I did talk to a higher up power earlier, he says that they are aware of various rank limitation/restrictions, and that lack may look into the suggestion in some sort of form or iteration.
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The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Daggerheart on Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:43 am

I returned to CC after 1 year of abscense and found the same reason I left still present. CC aims to make players happy in many ways, lot of options and possibilities. Or as an moderator here so nicely put it: "Free bananas for all!". After some games I am now leaving CC again. I and I want to say once more why: There is a terrible flaw in the matchmaking/rating system. It should not be necessary to only make private invite games to play vs players around you own rating level. I really can't see that this will damage the scoreboard, the general players experience or anything! I want to repeat this: "Selecting players to your game is allready allowed!!!!" BUT it's tiresome to send invites and I personally thinks that the option of handpicking your opponents to rated games are alot more unlogical at a site where the ratingssystem is so present (hitting players you know are weaker than yourself/your team... if that is your choice)...

Concise description:
  • Please add an option to the matchmaking allowing rating requirements
  • Change the way "invite only" games work and hide your opponents until the game starts

Specifics/Details:

One of these two would solve the flaw:
  • Add an option under "Start A Game" so only players with a ratingdifference of -100/+100 could join your game
  • Add an option under "Start A Game" so only players with one rank higher or lower could join your game

    Other suggestions that would also benefit the site:

  • Add an option so that players below a certain rating can't join the game. Cooks that jump games must find another cook game :P
  • If one of the options above is added, remove the rating points for the invite only games completely. Only give rating points for "open" games and tournament games. When creating "open" games the opponents are hidden until the game starts! Yeah, that would teach the rating "farmers" a lesson! Note: You CAN invite and see your team members

Personally I like the first suggestion best together with the change in the invite only games!

Important: Please note that when the game have started the players rating at the start of the game is used when calculating the rating win/loss in the end!

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • This would only make more people happy, at least I would :-) Since it's just an option you can still make games free for everybody.
  • It would give an increased sense of fairness to CC and make the scoreboard an interesting place

I would like to talk personally with the owner of this site... could a moderator please send him a message that I want to talk to him? I don't want to piss him off by trying to make a contact myself...
Last edited by Daggerheart on Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:44 pm, edited 18 times in total.
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Arama86n on Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:48 am

Slightly off topic but;

You play almost exclusivly 1v1, so why not just throw up 50 waiting games, make password standard for (2000+ Majors & above) in callouts, ask that no player join more than 3-5 games cause you'd like variation. violá
Hell with that setup you prolly wouldn't even need to bother posting links, 1v1's always fill, just write for interested people to go to your profile and find a waiting game, cause they all have same password.

Just got to use a little imagination.
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby hmsps on Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:13 am

i tottally agree with Daggerhearts suggestion. This would also help lower ranked players so they can set up games without the fear of being farmed by certain players (although its not against the rules but it is against the spirit and does not enhance the experience of lower ranked/less experienced players).
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby Daggerheart on Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:55 am

Thanks for the support. NOW it's time to address this issue to the owner! :-)
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Re: The matchmaking and rating system

Postby TheForgivenOne on Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:38 pm

Daggerheart wrote:Thanks for the support. NOW it's time to address this issue to the owner! :-)


Just because 2 people agree with you, does not mean it's going to be forwarded.

But this is from a thread a week or two ago.

TheForgivenOne wrote:I did talk to a higher up power earlier, he says that they are aware of various rank limitation/restrictions, and that lack may look into the suggestion in some sort of form or iteration.


But, it's on the back burner of things to do, so you may not see it for quite a while.
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