Rank Restricted Games

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Re: Rank Requirement

Postby rutty on Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:46 pm

gdeangel wrote:This is a good idea. I suggested something like this too... all that is needed to make it fair is to make is so you shouldn't be able to set it higher than the rank that is a few ranks below you. Then there is no reason you can't still have a site with good quality inter-rank play.


I don't think it would be a good idea to restrict the upper and lower limits in any way. If a cook were to specify opponents with a lower limit of 2400 and no upper limit than i think he/she should be allowed to do that. Marked forces will decide if that game will be played! Fairness is not really an issue here.

As for discrimination of weaker players:
Unlike a game like poker where a difference in playing skill does not make for a bad game per se, conquer club or risk is very sensitive to difference in skill levels. One player can very easily destroy an 8 player game in one unthinking move. That is why its important to have the option to invite players of a similar level. be that low or high. The private game option gives players a way to discriminate as does the friends and foes list. All these options are widely used and liked. Discrimination of weaker players is a feature of conquer club and the marked demands it.

Private games:
I only play private games speed and 24hr. I've got about 60 friends in my friends list and many of whom expect to be invited to games where all opponents are 1600+ or 1800+ or 2000+. every time i'm setting up a game i have to check my friends list to see what each individual players rank is to see if they qualify for a specific points range. If friends would have they're rank next to their name in the friends list it would be easy to scroll through, but since they do not, i have to click on the name, wait for the page to load and check the ranking. This process takes ages. The other drawback of this system of inviting is that i only play against players who are in my friends list. So by adding an optional top and bottom limit to the game setup i would infact be playing a larger number of different players! Because I do not have access to all elligable players when i start a private speed game, it sometimes takes ages to fill, which is a real pain for players with limited time on they're hands.

It seems that not implementing this simple suggestion is going against marked forces. Players want to choose the opponents skill level, they allready do it through private games. It could be made more user friendly.

I hope you will re-visit issue

Regards,

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Re: Rank Requirement *rejected*

Postby FarangDemon on Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:21 pm

It would make it easier for players who want to play their peers to automatically organize games. This is not everyone's definition of fun, though I think it would be good for the competitive aspect of this site. It takes more effort to screen potential people and send mass pms and its a shame that it must be done that way.

There is a problem remaining - there is a not-uncommonly held belief that some of the highest ranked players are not really as skilled as their scores indicate. People with this conviction are going to be against any kind of avenue for allowing high ranked players to easily filter out the lower ranked from their games, seeing that as a form of point incest where the high ranked maintain their pool of incestuous, imbred points by only playing one another, thus denying some of the worthier lower-ranked a shot at their points.

I understand this theoretical possibility, but in the long run, I think CC will be made more competitive by implementing the suggestion.
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Re: Minimum & Maximum Rank Options

Postby FarangDemon on Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:46 am

As Ahunda said, there are many, many players who would like this to happen. That is why it continues to be brought up almost every day, until each OP realizes they are wasting their time and gives up.

As Sully has once said, the reason this won't be done is that they believe if new recruits are less able to join games with high rankers, that means they are going to be playing with themselves more often. Games with new recruits are generally less enjoyable because they tend to deadbeat or suicide more often than experienced players. So new recruits would be less likely to stay and ultimately purchase premium because they would have a more negative experience by playing in games with more deadbeats like themselves.

However, I bet a lot of lower-ranked players would use the min/max rank filter to exclude high ranked from joining games, so there would be lots of potentially enjoyable games for new recruits to enter. Society of cooks would probably want to exclude some of the highest ranks so as to help new players gain confidence and build morale by playing peers.

Another reason there will be plenty of games for new recruits to join is that many players are going to continue to create games without the min/max rank filter because they wish to play with their friends, clanmates or family members. Many objections to allowing a min/max rank filtering system are from these people, so there would definitely be plenty of games like this available for new recruits to join.

This option would desegregate the top ranks by making it easier for them to organize games that would include MANY TIMES MORE PLAYERS than the ones they are currently inviting by private pm's and secret passwords in callouts.
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Re: Minimum & Maximum Rank Options

Postby ljex on Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:13 am

Vermont wrote:
Artimis wrote:
OP is using flawed logic

By making it easy to set rank limits MORE rank segregation will result. The inherent laziness of human nature insures that the create private games option(premiums only) is used by few people. This helps to ward off rank segregation for the most part.


Actually, I'm not. Do a search on non-team speed games at different times for a few days. Tell me how many you see that have any sort of upper rank. It doesn't happen but rarely - players are already self-segregating. Sure occassionaly a high ranking player starts a speed game, but it is definitely the exception rather than the norm. (Yes, I am aware there are fewer high ranking players, but the gap is exponentially higher than that.)

Rather than attempt to attack my logic, perhaps you should check out the facts for yourself first?

The point (which I'll state again) is that segregation is ALREADY occurring, but it's done in a clunky, non-obvious way, using private games and semi-secret passwords. If you use min and max rank options that are sufficiently big, this would allow players to create more public games (I sure would!), that more people would be allowed to play in, without requiring players to jump through extra hoops.

Edit: fixed typo.



This is because most speed games are not an effective way to gain points, because it is hard to be so much better than everyone else at game settings that you can get to be high ranking. I can think of less than 10 players that can do and most of them arnt doing it anymore. You mention that if they aren't team games and that is becasue the way to gain points is to play team games its not like there are a lot of private team speed games consisting of high ranked players. If you are are going to talk about people not attacking you logic please provide a logical example not one where you twist the facts to support you opinion. Also CC has long stood by the principal that anyone can play anyone which is why this idea has and i hope never will be implemented and why players that only play low ranked players are not banned for farming.

Also what do you define as high ranking i was setting it at colonel but if you lower that to major then you point is even less logical and my point still stands that it is hard to gain points playing speed games.
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Re: Minimum & Maximum Rank Options

Postby rhp 1 on Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:37 pm

Vermont wrote:Never give up! Never surrender! :D

But seriously, is "avoiding rank segregation" the reason this idea is being ignored? Because rank segregation is already here; maybe some people just don't want to acknowledge that or play only team games so they have no exposure to it.

I actually agree with Vermont.. the problem is, why does the problem exist? try to help the noobies (by crushing them and giving them advice on why they got crushed) there are plenty of tools in place to narrow the range of players one exposes him/herself to, e.g. foe list, private games, invites etc. more to the point, just play everyone who isn't worthy of the foe list and the site will naturally be more enjoyable and competitive for all! i think i'm gonna go eat a granola bar and hug a tree now.
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Re: Minimum & Maximum Rank Options

Postby rhp 1 on Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:39 pm

Supermarioluigi wrote:
Vermont wrote:
Supermarioluigi wrote:This has been suggested many times, and always rejected.

So, it's not taking place.


If it's been rejected to prevent segregation then the fact that segregation is now actively, consistently, occurring should at least revive the discussion. Or was there another rationale for rejecting it?


Lack himself basically said no.
And when lack says no, you listen.
Once it's been rejected once, even more so several times, it's rarely looked at again.


"Segregation" has been occuring since this site started, and this "idea" has been brought up ever few months or so and rejected each time.


As much as I would love some sort of max/min rank option, it most likely won't.



you actually took a screen shot of being sgt 1st? that's funny.
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Re: Player Balance system

Postby Aalmeida17 on Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:01 pm

4 years passed and everythink is exacly the same , FARMING IS NO PLAYERS FOUL , FARMING IS SISTEM FAIL
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Rank limitations for games

Postby Orange-Idaho-Dog on Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:51 pm

Concise description:
  • Put a drop-down tab when starting a game to allow a player to set rank limitations as to who can join their game.

Specifics:
  • The default setting would be no restriction, so that you can still make games that anyone can join.
  • You would only be allowed to set a rank limitation up to your rank, IE. My current rank is Captain. I would be able to set a limitation so that only X to Captain can join my game, X being any rank lower than Captain.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • This will allow more equal games when it comes to experience, and prevent games such as a Terminator game with me vs 3 low ranks (corporal or lower) where I am immediately targeted by all 3 players and stand no chance to win what-so-ever, and end up losing 30+ points.
  • This would also help cut down on the current way to setup a rank-specific game; making a game with a password and waiting for who knows how long for players to reply asking for the password.

Before anyone says it, no amount of strategy or epic dice will prevail in a 3v1 situation, I don't care who you are.

Opinions?
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby fumandomuerte on Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:56 pm

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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby MrClimax on Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:00 pm

Nice suggestion. Never tought of this before because of my low rank, but good idea.

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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby Orange-Idaho-Dog on Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:03 pm

I believe my suggestion has the limitations needed to make this work. From what I've seen, the other suggestions have failed to have the limit where you could only set the limitation up to your own rank.

If needed, there could be a limitation added so that only X rank or higher can use the option, so that Cooks and New Recruits couldn't use it, as there's really no need.

If it is implemented, there would have to be special searches available to find the games.


*Edit*

Weather this is implemented or not, rank specific games still happen in the Callouts forum. This would just let things be quicker, and less spam games posted in the forums. It would make things easier all-around.
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby TotoroHat on Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:53 pm

This has been rejected every time someone posts it... Thats why there is a search forum.

The only way this could work, imo, is to have a max rank limit of say 1200 for games in which only players under 1200 could play and no one over 1200 could play... Other than that this is crap!
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby Orange-Idaho-Dog on Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:47 pm

I've read a few of the other Suggestion threads for similar ideas. Weather or not this particular idea gets implemented, I don't care. But I'm really tired of being in games against low ranks where I have absolutely no chance to win, all I can do is sit there and watch my points disappear.

Some sort of limitation needs implemented, I can guarentee I'm not the only one fighting for it, and I'm not the only one that would use it.

I'd like to hear from some higher rank players, no offence intended to those who have posted already. I just want some opinions from the players who would use this option the most, if it was implemented.
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby Timur the Lame on Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:16 pm

Not sure if this really belongs here but theres a lot of predatory team games setup. People spam quadruples or triples and in all the cases its the same three high-ranking players on team one. Inevitably its only noobs that filll up the other team.

ASSUMING this isnt purposely setup noob farming, a rank option would allow a fairer match.

Any rank option would have to make sure that it didnt encourage noob-farming i.e. a cpt could set the rank limit to provate or whatever
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby Orange-Idaho-Dog on Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:40 pm

Timur the Lame wrote:Any rank option would have to make sure that it didnt encourage noob-farming i.e. a cpt could set the rank limit to provate or whatever



If a Captain set the limit to Private; Private, Private 1st class, Corporal, Corporal 1st class, Sergeant, Sergeant 1st class, Lieutenant and Captain's could all join the game.


This would not assist noob farming anymore than setting up a regular game would, and it would deffinately help make games fairer for all.
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby Tezu on Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:17 pm

I think this is a great idea, setting a minimum and a maximum rank to join the game... This way newbs would be able to set a limit and not have to face majors or above for example... I know I used to avoid games with high ranking players when I was new, now I try to avoid low ranked ones...
But I know this suggestion has been rejected over and over again... admins say it protects against discriminating newbies, but it would also help protect newbies from farmers, or just from getting beat once and again by expert players...
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby Orange-Idaho-Dog on Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:06 pm

Exactly, No one rank would benefit more than another from this being implemented. And if/when this is officially rejected, again, I think the Admin's should come up with a better idea, because I know a lot of players who want something along these lines put into place. Other wise there wouldn't be 10+ suggestion threads about it.
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby rubenschtorm on Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:53 am

could not a league table be done so that games are only available to people of theoretically even ability?i dont care who i play , im in the game simply because in my rural community there arent enough players to get a game together and am suffering withdrawals, and as a new recruit its a bit deceptive as ive played the board game quite a bit.
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby Woodruff on Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:54 am

Orange-Idaho-Dog wrote:Concise description:
  • Put a drop-down tab when starting a game to allow a player to set rank limitations as to who can join their game.

Specifics:
  • The default setting would be no restriction, so that you can still make games that anyone can join.
  • You would only be allowed to set a rank limitation up to your rank, IE. My current rank is Captain. I would be able to set a limitation so that only X to Captain can join my game, X being any rank lower than Captain.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • This will allow more equal games when it comes to experience, and prevent games such as a Terminator game with me vs 3 low ranks (corporal or lower) where I am immediately targeted by all 3 players and stand no chance to win what-so-ever, and end up losing 30+ points.
  • This would also help cut down on the current way to setup a rank-specific game; making a game with a password and waiting for who knows how long for players to reply asking for the password.

Before anyone says it, no amount of strategy or epic dice will prevail in a 3v1 situation, I don't care who you are.

Opinions?


This site is not interested at all in "fair", they are interested in "money". Sadly, they have come to the conclusion (wrongly, in my opinion) that this sort of an implementation would result in less "money", therefore it is rejected every time.
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby AgentSmith88 on Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:22 am

Orange-Idaho-Dog wrote:Concise description:
  • Put a drop-down tab when starting a game to allow a player to set rank limitations as to who can join their game.

Specifics:
  • The default setting would be no restriction, so that you can still make games that anyone can join.
  • You would only be allowed to set a rank limitation up to your rank, IE. My current rank is Captain. I would be able to set a limitation so that only X to Captain can join my game, X being any rank lower than Captain.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • This will allow more equal games when it comes to experience, and prevent games such as a Terminator game with me vs 3 low ranks (corporal or lower) where I am immediately targeted by all 3 players and stand no chance to win what-so-ever, and end up losing 30+ points.
  • This would also help cut down on the current way to setup a rank-specific game; making a game with a password and waiting for who knows how long for players to reply asking for the password.

Before anyone says it, no amount of strategy or epic dice will prevail in a 3v1 situation, I don't care who you are.

Opinions?


You do realize that what you are suggesting would actually ONLY allow noobs to join, and not anyone above your rank. So what you are complaining about is actually all you will get.

I would LOVE to be able to keep out cooks and the like from joining games, but this isn't the first time this has been suggested in some form or another and it still has yet to be implemented. I'm sure the admins are worried that all the higher ranks will only play games amongst themselves, but there are ways to do that anyways.

Good luck.
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby lestat101 on Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:20 am

Actually this is another implementation that I would suggest.

Being able to set certain Parameters on creating a game would promote lesser members to become PAID members. Just saying
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby Orange-Idaho-Dog on Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:04 pm

There's obviously enough push from the community to make this happen. I think the Admin's should think up some sort of option to accomplish something similar to what is wanted, since they don't seem to like our ideas.

I'm ready to stop playing public games because I simply lose too many points to complete noobs who have no clue what they're doing, Sorry to be stereotypical, but it's the truth. When it's 3v1 in a 4 player game, I'm doomed to lose. No strategy or miracle dice combined could over come those odds.

Now if it's a 4 player game with somewhat evenly ranked players, rank isn't a factor in elimination nearly as much. Overall, it would make for much more fair games, for both noobs and high ranked players. I think it would also be a bit harder to gain ranks if such an option was implemented, giving players a goal to aim for. Of course, with the default setting being No Limitation, there would still be plenty of public games that all ranks could join. I myself would still play No Limitation games, just not as many as I do now.
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby drunkmonkey on Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:10 pm

Orange-Idaho-Dog wrote:There's obviously enough push from the community to make this happen. I think the Admin's should think up some sort of option to accomplish something similar to what is wanted, since they don't seem to like our ideas.


You could plaster this on about a hundred suggestions in this forum. Sucks, doesn't it?
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby Orange-Idaho-Dog on Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:54 pm

Yes but see, we put the money in their pocket that makes CC run, and probably gives Lack a nice paycheck... After all, he wouldn't run ConquerClub for just a hobby. This is one of the suggestions that has been brought up over and over and over again, there is more than enough support to get something put into place.
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Re: Rank limitations for games

Postby BoganGod on Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:48 pm

Orange-Idaho-Dog wrote:I've read a few of the other Suggestion threads for similar ideas. Weather or not this particular idea gets implemented, I don't care. But I'm really tired of being in games against low ranks where I have absolutely no chance to win, all I can do is sit there and watch my points disappear.

Some sort of limitation needs implemented, I can guarentee I'm not the only one fighting for it, and I'm not the only one that would use it.

I'd like to hear from some higher rank players, no offence intended to those who have posted already. I just want some opinions from the players who would use this option the most, if it was implemented.


Been suggested multiple times in the past. Don't think it will ever happen. Rank is often no real indication of skill. For example I'm slowly working towards my freestyle gold. So joining available freestyle games. Yourself and an even lower ranked partner handed me my arse quickly and decisively. You earned 41points for it.

Do you really want to deny people the chance to pull off a win like that? Once you reach a certain level, say from 1-150 on the Scoreboard, if you choose to play mainly private rank restricted games it gets pretty boring, playing the same people again and again. Also with the way medals are set up, you need unique defeats.

If your tired of being in games against "low" ranks which you have no chance of winning... Play fog, join the games not create them. Join one of the +1600 callout threads/groups they operate on a standard pw I believe.

Please stop beating this old sad rank restriction drum. How many times does the question need to be asked, and receive the same response before the answer sinks in.

It was NO, the last time it was suggested, and the time before that etc........

There is already a form of rank restriction in place, ? marks can't join team games, and some maps. Some tournaments are rank seeded, or have a rank requirement. There are plenty of callout threads, and social usergroups for ranked games. Rather than regurgitate old failed suggestions be more selective with the games you play. :)

Well thats Uncle Bogan's advice column for the day :lol:
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