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[GP] Surrender/Resign/Forfeit Button

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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:46 pm

SilverWill wrote:
concrete wrote:
enjoycocacola wrote:Yes!

alright........

yes.................32
no..................8


Just out of curiosity, are you counting the "yes with restrictions" as yes or just not adding them concrete?

Also I think if a resign button is added then I feel the following restrictions should be added or at least considered:

1) premium only with a maximum amount of uses of like 5 times a month
2) only after a minimum of 10 rounds, with the losing player having 3 or less regions and with less than or equal to 5 troops
3) only to be used in games with 2 players (1v1, poly when it is down to 1v3 or 4, etc)
4) have a feature in the settings page where it can be turned on and off but in order for it to be available, both players have to have it active before the game starts. If 1 player has it off then the resign button will not be available for that game.

No matter how I see it, not everyone is going to be happy with or without it but for a resign button without restrictions then my vote is a no.


Hey if you're going to advocate a version of the resign button that is so restrictive that it will functionally never get used, do us all a favor and just vote "no," please.
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby dollarsnosense on Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:36 am

Yes.
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby SilverWill on Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:28 am

Metsfanmax wrote:Hey if you're going to advocate a version of the resign button that is so restrictive that it will functionally never get used, do us all a favor and just vote "no," please.


Shannon Apple wrote:Something like this would need proper implementation.

For example,
- you cannot quit a multiplayer game, unless you are one of the last two players.
- You cannot quit unless you have played at LEAST 10 rounds in a game.
- You should only be able to use an "I quit" button for a limited amount of times each week to prevent abuse. Tough shit if you want to point dump, or play too many games.

- I don't agree with a 3 missed turn penalty for ending a game, especially when there's an obvious winner and ending it is a favour to both players. Too many people want punishments pushed forward for something that makes sense.


Donelladan wrote:There is some obvious stuff though.
It should be for 1vs1 only, poly (which is a kind of 1vs1), and maybe for multiplayers game if only 2 players remains.
I have no idea how in your previous poll 20% said resign button should be for multiplayers game only, but that's silly. Almost every players posting on the resign button always agree with the fact that no one should be able to resign in a multiplayer game. That's the most important and imo almost the only required restriction.


Metsfanmax, I just put some of the ideas that others have previously posted in my list but added:

4) have a feature in the settings page where it can be turned on and off but in order for it to be available, both players have to have it active before the game starts. If 1 player has it off then the resign button will not be available for that game.


mine's just easier to read. It takes about 2 minutes to draft up a pm to say "hay do you have this feature active?" and if they say no then you could ask if they could activate it for the game (if they want to but also gives the option for those that don't want the resign button to have the option to not have it active.) Of course my list could go either way for or against depending how you look at it since for the most part I am neutral on the subject since I am still looking at all of the positives and negatives and can't tell yet which is better yet.

If you feel that the restrictions are too strict then just say "I think that it should be this way...." instead of just going "that is bad" and try and huff and puff against a brick building instead of trying to build to a resolution where most players will be happy.
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:20 pm

SilverWill wrote:If you feel that the restrictions are too strict then just say "I think that it should be this way...." instead of just going "that is bad" and try and huff and puff against a brick building instead of trying to build to a resolution where most players will be happy.


I have made my feelings clear on this issue may times and am not going to rehash them here. I will say that the thing you added is actually the worst one. If someone else can decide whether I can resign from a game, then it's just not a resign option. That functionality would almost certainly be disabled by default, meaning that I could only resign in games with people who cared enough and had taken the time to activate the feature.

You may also have been missing my point. A "resolution where most players will be happy" is one that is just not worth implementing. The only way to get something that essentially no one would disagree with is to get something that would almost never be used -- and when it is used, it's used when I would have lost in like two more rounds anyway -- and then what's the point of taking the time to implement it? For the people who want a resign button, they want to be able to resign whenever. I would be willing to accept some of these limitations in the interests of striking a compromise -- like only being able to resign 10 times per month or something -- but your list is not compromising in good faith. It is a list designed to ensure that you never see a resign happening unless it's in circumstances you (or Shannon, or Donelladan) are OK with it happening in. That is not compromise.
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby SilverWill on Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:04 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
SilverWill wrote:If you feel that the restrictions are too strict then just say "I think that it should be this way...." instead of just going "that is bad" and try and huff and puff against a brick building instead of trying to build to a resolution where most players will be happy.


I have made my feelings clear on this issue may times and am not going to rehash them here. I will say that the thing you added is actually the worst one. If someone else can decide whether I can resign from a game, then it's just not a resign option. That functionality would almost certainly be disabled by default, meaning that I could only resign in games with people who cared enough and had taken the time to activate the feature.

You may also have been missing my point. A "resolution where most players will be happy" is one that is just not worth implementing. The only way to get something that essentially no one would disagree with is to get something that would almost never be used -- and when it is used, it's used when I would have lost in like two more rounds anyway -- and then what's the point of taking the time to implement it? For the people who want a resign button, they want to be able to resign whenever. I would be willing to accept some of these limitations in the interests of striking a compromise -- like only being able to resign 10 times per month or something -- but your list is not compromising in good faith. It is a list designed to ensure that you never see a resign happening unless it's in circumstances you (or Shannon, or Donelladan) are OK with it happening in. That is not compromise.


Ok so you say you support a few restrictions but which ones are you talking about? Are you thinking about a penalty for using the "I Quit" button like that it can't be used for 3 days after using it? Or are you just wanting to use 10 times a month when ever you feel like it then when you are out have one of you competitors who is winning use it just so you don't have to finish playing out the game? You mention that it will practically not be used but wouldn't pm someone who might not know that it is available incease the communication between players? What about those players that don't want an "I Quit" button?

Metsfanmax, it is a given that there will be bad ideas and good ideas, some players will play the good guys while other play the bad guys and in order for something to worth putting on the site there has to be pros and cons addressed and if no one is addressing the issues then things are going to keep going round and round thus a common agreement is needed regarding the restrictions since an unrestricted "I Quit" button is already stated as a no go.
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:24 am

SilverWill wrote:Ok so you say you support a few restrictions but which ones are you talking about? Are you thinking about a penalty for using the "I Quit" button like that it can't be used for 3 days after using it? Or are you just wanting to use 10 times a month when ever you feel like it


I don't particularly care. I'd prefer the latter, but I'd accept the former.

You mention that it will practically not be used but wouldn't pm someone who might not know that it is available incease the communication between players?


What do you expect me to do, PM every one of my potential opponents and only wait to join their game until all of them have switched their option?

What about those players that don't want an "I Quit" button?


If they don't want it for reasons of principle, they are wrong. Resigning is a functional fact of life. It is not only petulant to suggest that a player cannot resign at any time that they desire, it is literally wrong. And anyway there are many games much more serious and more competitive than this that allow resigning -- and in fact hold it in high regard, but some of the tournaments people here imagine for themselves that they've carved out a section of the gaming world that is much more elite than any of that.
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby SilverWill on Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:26 pm

I don't particularly care.


This is the main problem and why there is not going to be an "I Quit" button anytime soon. Just a straight yes that you want it doesn't help anyone since all it says is you want an unrestricted button which is not going to happen due to previous issues. You have several of us that are trying to help build ideas in order to help get one and figure out restrictions tht people would be happy with since there has to be a common agreement. You say that you don't care but doesn't that mean that it is not worth taking the time to add it back to the site?

I think most players want it which is not the issue but what restrictions should be in place which not very many people in the community are helping to build towards a resolution except those that care.
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby concrete on Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:56 pm

all yes vote with restrictions are counted as yes. As I have said in the past, vote yes or no, worry about the restrictions if we ever get one.


Yes........35
No..........8
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby JamesKer1 on Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:29 pm

concrete wrote:As I have said in the past, vote yes or no, worry about the restrictions if we ever get one


Merged.
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lets vote on a resign button

Postby concrete on Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:38 pm

PLACE THE NAME OF THE SUGGESTION IN THE SUBJECT LINE!

Things to remember when posting a new suggestion are that the dice are random, and that lots of analysis has been done on them both internally and public by community members. Also, please take time to search for previous similar suggestions and, if possible, to check current and archived threads before posting something "new". Delete the xxxxxxx, and substitute your text.

Any questions, contact one of the Suggestions Moderators.
I posted a question awhile back, I wanted to know if the majority of the members on this site would want a "quit" button. There have been numerous threads about the button. 1 owner even tried it, but it didn't last long. Well, that was awhile back, and I still would want to know what the majority of the members want. here is a thread to my old post,
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=212859&p=4685070#p4685070
some ass hole merged it with a general discussion thread about the button.



Concise description:
  • This is strictly a vote on rather the members of this site think there should be a resign button

Specifics/Details:
  • vote yes or no......if you think there should be restrictions but there should be a button of some kind, you vote is a yes

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • my bet is the majority wants it
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Re: lets vote on a resign button

Postby concrete on Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:39 pm

as of the last count.......
yes ........35
no..........8
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:19 pm

SilverWill wrote:
I don't particularly care.


This is the main problem and why there is not going to be an "I Quit" button anytime soon. Just a straight yes that you want it doesn't help anyone since all it says is you want an unrestricted button which is not going to happen due to previous issues. You have several of us that are trying to help build ideas in order to help get one and figure out restrictions tht people would be happy with since there has to be a common agreement. You say that you don't care but doesn't that mean that it is not worth taking the time to add it back to the site?

I think most players want it which is not the issue but what restrictions should be in place which not very many people in the community are helping to build towards a resolution except those that care.


This makes no sense in context. You offered two versions of a compromise. I said that either of them would work for me. Do you want me to be less reasonable and less open? Would you prefer it if I said only one of those two works for me, so that if someone does have a preference between them and it differs from the one I said, then we're stuck? Obviously I didn't say that "I don't care" about the resign button, or that "I don't care" about obtaining a compromise. I said that, between those two possible compromises you offered, I don't care which one we take. I'd be happy with either as long as it gets the thing done.

Being as open to possible versions of the compromise as you possibly can be is what is needed. Your approach of cobbling together every single person's demands is what the problem has persistently been. If you don't understand that being open and accepting is good for compromise, then just stay out of this discussion.
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Re: [GP] Surrender/Resign/Forfeit Button

Postby WingCmdr Ginkapo on Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:56 pm

nope
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Re: [GP] Surrender/Resign/Forfeit Button

Postby Fewnix on Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:30 am

.I voted yes and the simplest way I can see a surrender/resign/forfeit button work in terms of penalty would be based on the penalty for "deadbeating"-

Keep in mind the only option now available to those who want to surrender/resign/forfeit for whatever reason -they figure the game is lost to them ,they don't have the time available to pay proper attention to the game or ca';t figure out how to play the game ) is the "deadbeat" option,. You are automatically kicked out from the game as a deadbeat if you miss 3 consecutive turns.
-
Nobody likes a deadbeat and nobody likes to deadbeat.so why not let people do the honourable thing- hit the surrender/resign/forfeit button and the wonderful CC computer does the same thing it does when it notes a player has missed 3 consecutive turns, but without the delay. And just as the wonderful Cc computer can keep count of missed turns, it can keep count of surrender/resign/forfeits,
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby SilverWill on Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:54 am

concrete wrote:all yes vote with restrictions are counted as yes. As I have said in the past, vote yes or no, worry about the restrictions if we ever get one.


Yes........35
No..........8


concrete, it has already been established that restrictions have to be in place before it can be added.

Metsfanmax, it has taken us several days for us to come up with 1-2 restrictions with me playing the bad guy the entire way in order to get a debate going to work towards helping move forward towards an "I Quit" button. The problem is only you compromised on the restriction but in order for it to be added you have to have the agreement on most of the players on here. You say you care but you work towards countering several people that are trying to move things forward in order for the button to be considered adding to the site again. If you don't want me to work towards building what restrictions should be considered then I wish you good luck since I don't see even a rough outline for the "acceptable" restrictions in the next 6 months.
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Re: Lets vote on the "I Quit Button"

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:37 pm

SilverWill wrote:
concrete wrote:all yes vote with restrictions are counted as yes. As I have said in the past, vote yes or no, worry about the restrictions if we ever get one.


Yes........35
No..........8


concrete, it has already been established that restrictions have to be in place before it can be added.


You don't really have any clue of the scope of these restrictions. For example, when I originally pushed for this in the staff forums, basically the entire tournaments team said that either (a) no resigning in tournaments or (b) they quit Team CC. Same for clans. This isn't going to happen. And that's coming from the guy who pushed harder for it than anyone else on the site. You've spent several days working on it? I've spent several years. The current administrator's position on this issue was the single largest factor in why I stepped down from Team CC myself. Just about the only thing that would give this any chance of happening is a new owner.
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Forefit/resign button

Postby TimWoodbury on Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:08 pm

i think a forfeit/resign button would be great, it would of kept the recent c&a cases about deadbating the poly trench games. ive seen people say admins have decline it due to potential for abuse, i have a solution for that potential. how about this when a person wants to resign/forfit a game they press the button and then say a certain percentage of the players must agree. so when a person presses the button the rest of the players get a popup or button or something of the sort saying so and so wants to forfeit/resign do you agree they will have a yes or no button. if the amount of players needed dont say yes then the person s stuck (here's the thing it wont tell you who said what so you cant complain either way) now if the players vote yes and agree the person too resign treat it like it would if a person deadbeat a terminator ie the person is gone but there cards and troops remain so someone can still take them out and get the cards if they so decide the person just isn't forced to continue when its a dead conclusion that its over. maybe have this a choice only after a certian amount of rounds or the player is below a certain amount of territory's compared to everyone else or something.


-EDIT-
this would also keep people from who know they have lost the game from taking someone else out with them as they will have a way out without ruining the game for someone else. there are times when 1 person knowing they lost wanting to get out of the game so they jsut go hit whoever is closest or most troops near them thus taking that person out as well
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Re: [GP] Surrender/Resign/Forfeit Button

Postby msantop on Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:05 pm

I Agree. Why I need to wait for 72 hours to quit in a game if it is lost or I dont want to play again???
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Re: [GP] Surrender/Resign/Forfeit Button

Postby owenshooter on Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:55 pm

msantop wrote:I Agree. Why I need to wait for 72 hours to quit in a game if it is lost or I dont want to play again???

because the resign button was severely abused to the point of it being removed and every owner stating it will never come back...-Jn
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