Conquer Club

[GO] Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games

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Practice Games

Postby Queen_Herpes on Fri May 07, 2010 8:02 pm

New Setting: Practice Game
  • Players choose whether the game is "yes" practice or "no" regular

Specifics:
  • "Yes" means a practice game, no points are earned and non are lost in a practice game
  • "No" means a regular game (as we enjoy them now) where points are risked and rank is potentially affected

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • Players looking to teach other players how to play can do so without risking points
  • High ranked players can open games without being concerned about opponents low rank and risk of points
  • New Players can train and learn how to play from experienced players without causing the experienced players concern over lost points
  • Brings some integrity to the ranking system. Every sport, video game and board game has a trial, tutorial, practice mode where players don't earn any benefits from winning and losers don't risk rank or rewards by losing.

If AI is too difficult to code, I would think that coding a switch to either "earn points" or "not earn points" would be much, much easier to code. I've had a lot of players complain when I play them because my rank is "too low." "Come back when you are a lieutenant, or captain, or major," they say.

I also realize the risk a player puts out by starting a game (usually one v one or 1v1v1 FFA) because the opponent could be a low rank and could burn points based on dice rolls as opposed to strategy. And strategy is what the ranking system is attempting to measure, correct?

LMK, I think this might really work.
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Re: Practice Games

Postby edwinissweet on Fri May 07, 2010 8:13 pm

i would say that this be only availible to premiums. I think the main concern you will find is that people will do this instead of playing. So i say that a "penalty" or "cost" be added. For every practice game, you lose 5 points, with the possibility to gain none. Knowledge at a "price"
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Re: practice games

Postby TheForgivenOne on Fri May 07, 2010 8:18 pm

Merged a bunch of the Practice Suggestions
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Re: Practice Games

Postby Queen_Herpes on Fri May 07, 2010 9:19 pm

edwinissweet wrote:i would say that this be only availible to premiums. I think the main concern you will find is that people will do this instead of playing. So i say that a "penalty" or "cost" be added. For every practice game, you lose 5 points, with the possibility to gain none. Knowledge at a "price"


Making it "Premium Only" would ruin the point. Most of the players on this site are not premium. Of those, a majority of them are among the lowest ranks and arguably, might not have the experience and knowledge (yet) to compete. Allowing new, freemium, and inexperienced players to play practice games would be benefical to them....beneficial to everyone...benefical to the site.
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Re: practice games

Postby TheForgivenOne on Fri May 07, 2010 9:26 pm

Hmmmm Maybe you could only play so many Practice games per week/month?
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Re: practice games

Postby Queen_Herpes on Fri May 07, 2010 9:33 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:Hmmmm Maybe you could only play so many Practice games per week/month?


I've read some of the other comments regarding limitations on practice games, but I don't understand why the limitations would need to be put in place. Can you, TheForgivenOne, or someone else explain why it would be bad if a freemium player filled up all 4 game slots with practice games?
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Re: practice games

Postby edwinissweet on Fri May 07, 2010 9:40 pm

ok, so practice games open to all. Still think that there should be a point deduction
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Re: practice games

Postby TheForgivenOne on Fri May 07, 2010 9:47 pm

Queen_Herpes wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:Hmmmm Maybe you could only play so many Practice games per week/month?


I've read some of the other comments regarding limitations on practice games, but I don't understand why the limitations would need to be put in place. Can you, TheForgivenOne, or someone else explain why it would be bad if a freemium player filled up all 4 game slots with practice games?


Hmmm Well, it kinda takes the point out of having a point system. If we could only play practice games, why would people risk points? Just basically take out the whole points system, and we just have a practice site. I bet people would use this to just destroy new players, knowing they won't have to risk anything if they lose to them
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Re: practice games

Postby Queen_Herpes on Sat May 08, 2010 10:37 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:Hmmmm Maybe you could only play so many Practice games per week/month?


I've read some of the other comments regarding limitations on practice games, but I don't understand why the limitations would need to be put in place. Can you, TheForgivenOne, or someone else explain why it would be bad if a freemium player filled up all 4 game slots with practice games?


Hmmm Well, it kinda takes the point out of having a point system. If we could only play practice games, why would people risk points? Just basically take out the whole points system, and we just have a practice site. I bet people would use this to just destroy new players, knowing they won't have to risk anything if they lose to them


That is a completely unreasonable perspective. You're claiming that everyone will simply dumb it down to the lowest common denominator, and that doesn't make sense.

First, it doesn't take the point out of having a point system. It legitimizes the point system. Those willing to risk their points to increase their point total or to increase their rank will play games as usual. An inexperienced player who plays several practice games will join a regular game and the result in the regular game will be a better determination of ability than the current system. Currently, inexperienced players cough up 3 or 4 games worth of points to experienced players before "understanding" the map or the setting. Now those points that were awarded due to lack of understanding and inexperience WON'T be awarded in a practice game.

Second, Those who are on this site to simply have a good time will likely play more practice games than anything else. This is a social site, where people are here to have fun, right? Competition for points can sometimes be frustrating and lead to competitive attitudes that are less than social. Providing an opportunity to play without points might be VERY interesting to some users. Maybe a poll would help determine some perspectives? I certainly would enjoy to play a game every now and then that doesn't come with the stress or frustration of dice and/or spoils causing my opponent to spout off that the "Dice Suck!" and then I end up getting a low rating from that player because the dice weren't great.

Third, Practice is a valid reason for players to play in practice mode. Perhaps I want to try out a new strategy to see how effective it might be in real competition. I cannot do that currently without risking points. Perhaps I want to try out a new partner or partners in team games. I cannot do that currently without risking points. I've had plenty of doubles games where my new teammates were less than desirable. Often their ability to play team games could not simply be determined by their rating or their rank. I, for one, am not very good at playing triples. Yet, I have a decent rank and a decent rating. Though I've blown it several times in triples games, none of my teammates have rated me down for "poor strategy" which would have been a good tag for my performance in some of those games. I can see how my teammates would have liked to (or would enjoy future opportunities to) play practice games with me.

Every team, every sport, everywhere has practice opportunities...yet...they still attend competitions and still play competitively for "rank" or "position." And, to your point, yes, there are players who retire from competition. And when they do, that doesn't cause everyone else to simply fall out of competition.

Fourth, you're assuming that experienced players would "use this to just destroy new players, knowing they won't have to risk anything if they lose to them" and that assumption on your part is just wrong. Sure, there will be one or two out there. Maybe they will hold their freemium opponent "hostage," and if they do, they risk getting an abuse report. Outside of holding a freemium "hostage," I cannot think of a reason where a new player would be "destroyed." Certainly, if you are referencing "helpfulness" there will be some players who will be more helpful than others. As a way to spend time on this site, I doubt there are going to be players who will waste their time playing a new player to simply "destroy them." I believe in the human spirit, I think that even the worst offenders will be helpful and positive in a practice game, knowing that there will be no effect on rank, and that instead a new friend might be found.

Players will use practice mode in a positive manner. Farmers and Point whores will be opposed to practice mode because it means they won't be able to garner more points via beating inexperienced players in games that don't offer points.
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Postby Lionz on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:11 am

Are you a lawyer Queen? : )
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Re: practice games

Postby eddie2 on Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:09 am

so where has this all got us to.


1)practice at a charge of 5 points. this is fair.

2)open to all. this is fair

3)limit to maps not played maps. this is fair

4)no medals won because of it. this is also fair


at the end why not even if it was limited to the league of cooks you would have more people willing to teach new players. this will make new players happy maybe getting more premium members out of it .
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Option for no point games

Postby Kiron on Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:01 am

Description: Option for no point games

Specifics: See above

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments
: Allow people with really high scores not worry about losing a large amount of points on unfamiliar maps and settings. Also allow new players to play with higher score players (who would not play otherwise of risk losing too much points) and learn more.
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Re: Option for no point games

Postby Army of GOD on Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:04 am

This has already been suggested a bunch of times.

Though I totally agree with it, they won't accept it.
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Re: Option for no point games

Postby blakebowling on Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:24 am

The reason, as stated before. Is that points are supposed to be a measure of your overall skill and luck at the game, it is not meant to be used as money to be wagered or bet.
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Re: Option for no point games

Postby ljex on Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:11 am

Kiron wrote:Description: Option for no point games

Specifics: See above

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments
: Allow people with really high scores not worry about losing a large amount of points on unfamiliar maps and settings. Also allow new players to play with higher score players (who would not play otherwise of risk losing too much points) and learn more.


There are 2 sides to this argument

1) some people want to not always play for points which i understand though i dont really care too much about score so this doesn't effect me at all.
2) the idea is that if you invest a few points in learning a map then you can increase your score from that added knowledge thought that isn't really true for you, it is for most of CC.
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unranked matches

Postby filipinomachino on Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:43 am

For beginner players i think you should have the option for an unrated match like on yahoo games. One of the main reasons for this is for players to try out new maps without gettin squashed by veterans of the maps and their rank being dropped due to an unfair handicap. This may have been posted before and i apologize if it has, but i'm new and didn't feel like scrolling through hundreds of forum pages to see if it was. Of course the vets don't have to play in these games cuz i'm sure they're lookin for points but if they wanna try somethin crazy they can and won't be penalized for it as well. Gives e1 an option that could benefit everybody. Thanks for listenin, thoughts?
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Re: unranked matches

Postby angola on Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:22 am

Well, I see your point, but if you lose to a really high rank, you won't lose very many points.

So, while it's not quite what you are looking for, it also isn't as bad as you make it sound.

Plus, watching how a high rank wins can help you learn the map more than beating a bunch of other folks who don't understand the map.
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Re: unranked matches

Postby greenoaks on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:41 am

and your score is a reflection of your ability

gaining skill without your score rising makes the whole rank thing pointless
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Re: unranked matches

Postby Leehar on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:18 am

greenoaks wrote:and your score is a reflection of your ability

gaining skill without your score rising makes the whole rank thing pointless

but hasn't it already been established that rank isn't always an accurate reflection on skillz?
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Re: unranked matches

Postby targetman377 on Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:08 pm

I am glade that there is not unranked matches you would also see alot of high rank players who would not want to lose there rank play those maps. I feel that adding it to the site would actually hinder competition rather than make it better.
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Solitaire Mode

Postby ender516 on Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:58 am

Concise description:
  • Add a solitaire mode to Conquer Club.

Specifics/Details:
  • Add a solitaire mode to Conquer Club, whereby a user could set up a game with any of the settings used otherwise (number of players, game type, map, initial troops, play order, spoils, reinforcements, fog of war, and round length) and then play as all of the players in the game.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • The ability to practice is essential to the development and maintenance of any skill set, for novice and experienced alike.
  • The ability to explore the mechanics of a game without delay could help in the retention of new recruits, especially those with familiar with the copyrighted, real-world versions of global domination games, who wish to compare and contrast the way Conquer Club is played.
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Re: Solitaire Mode

Postby perchorin on Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:01 am

This is a pretty cool idea. Would be great for when the new maps come out!
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Re: Solitaire Mode

Postby ender516 on Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:11 am

perchorin wrote:This is a pretty cool idea. Would be great for when the new maps come out!

It would take the risk out of beta testing, wouldn't it? (No pun intended.)
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Re: Solitaire Mode

Postby Woltato on Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:55 am

Good idea.

I think unrated games where no points are at stake would also be good for practicing.
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Re: unranked matches

Postby filipinomachino on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:02 pm

angola wrote:Well, I see your point, but if you lose to a really high rank, you won't lose very many points.

So, while it's not quite what you are looking for, it also isn't as bad as you make it sound.

Plus, watching how a high rank wins can help you learn the map more than beating a bunch of other folks who don't understand the map.


well by vet i didn't necessarily mean a high rank. i just started and am at 1500. i see a lot of ppl in the 1300-1700 range. while we are around the same rank i've only played 50 games compared to there 1000+. so i'm still losing a fair amount of points and still at a disadvantage to ppl around my ranking. maybe implement something to where u can play unranked games if you're still under a certain number of total games or cap it out at like 25 unranked games. that way the high ranks can't take advantage of it and only play ranked games to their liking(as someone pointed out earlier) and it gives beginners and medium players alike a way to try out a few new maps or diff ways of playing and get a few games to get accustomed to it. i think a cap of 15-25 should be sufficient and not ruin any gameplay already established on this site.
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