Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

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Postby jonesthecurl on Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:01 pm

2dimes wrote:I often miss my own point which is. After Yahushua came we no longer need a human priest between us and God. He is still doing that job.


What was the point of including all the St Paul stuff in the bible again?
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Postby 2dimes on Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:55 pm

Gentiles.
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby jonesthecurl on Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:52 pm

So God didn't think non-jews would come aboard? So he had to add an addendum?
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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Postby 2dimes on Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:15 pm

You ever been to synagog?
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby thegreekdog on Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:32 am

From other thread:

hahaha3hahaha wrote:
crispybits wrote:OK - forgive any bad typing I'm writing this on my phone.

The Catholic Church teaches that we have an immortal soul.

The Catholic Church teaches that animals do not have an immortal soul.

The Catholic Church teaches that man evolved from animals.

So at some point in our evolutionary history we had no souls and now we do? Or how does that work?

Note that I'm not the one claiming that souls exist - the Catholic Church are the ones doing that. Even if I'm willing to give them that point (and there's a lot to do before I do that) their metaphysics still has some pretty serious issues when they try and mesh it with evolution.


So, the catholic church, who seem to self-admit adhering to tradition and not Biblical scripture, are supposed to represent Biblical scripture? Interesting angle.
As for the soul thing, doesn't evolution teach that life came from non-life and rationality came from the non-rational? Again, some curious points you raise here.


Why do you keep typing that? It's inaccurate. Let's have this discussion in the other thread, but what specific things does the Catholic Church adhere to that are antithetical to the Bible (other than "a man behind a screen is my confessor")? Keep in mind your own version of Christianity does not adhere to the Bible 100%.
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby hahaha3hahaha on Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:00 am

thegreekdog wrote:From other thread:

hahaha3hahaha wrote:
crispybits wrote:OK - forgive any bad typing I'm writing this on my phone.

The Catholic Church teaches that we have an immortal soul.

The Catholic Church teaches that animals do not have an immortal soul.

The Catholic Church teaches that man evolved from animals.

So at some point in our evolutionary history we had no souls and now we do? Or how does that work?

Note that I'm not the one claiming that souls exist - the Catholic Church are the ones doing that. Even if I'm willing to give them that point (and there's a lot to do before I do that) their metaphysics still has some pretty serious issues when they try and mesh it with evolution.




So, the catholic church, who seem to self-admit adhering to tradition and not Biblical scripture, are supposed to represent Biblical scripture? Interesting angle.
As for the soul thing, doesn't evolution teach that life came from non-life and rationality came from the non-rational? Again, some curious points you raise here.


Why do you keep typing that? It's inaccurate. Let's have this discussion in the other thread, but what specific things does the Catholic Church adhere to that are antithetical to the Bible (other than "a man behind a screen is my confessor")?


Sir, I do believe you enforced to me this very notion, tradition over Scripture. Let us explore then the antithetical teachings, as you have insisted. Please note I speak of these things out of love, and not hatred or condemnation.
- Obviously, we've already gone over that fact that sins can be forgiven by God only, not a priest.
- Multiple non-Biblical rituals involving the virgin Mary (ie. praying to her, worshiping her etc.)
- Worshiping idols
- Changing the ten commandments (scrapping #2 and splitting #10 into two separate laws)
- Purgatory, again, not Biblically supported
- The alteration of the day of worship (Sabbath) from saturday to sunday to incorporate mithrics into the Roman empire
- Indulgences (paying money to be given the right to sin) - although I read that this has been outlawed a while back and was only carried about and endorsed by certain members, and was not an official church practice (perhaps you can provide clarification here)
- As for their stance on salvation I ask you to explain the official church's doctrine on it, rather than make assumptions (though I read many claims that appall me)

Matthew 15:9 "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
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Postby 2dimes on Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:17 am

One of the reasons God sent his son was to give everyone access to him. Instead of needing priests as a mediator because at that time they were closer to him.

Unlike the Torah, following christ allows choice, such as bacon, we're all supposed to use our own better judgement to live right instead of blindly following the rules inturpreted by other people. Talking with someone who is a good Christian, maybe some sort of pastor should cause me to desire to follow a rule because it will bring PB&J, instead of being coerced by fear.
Keep in mind your own version of Christianity does not adhere to the Bible 100%.

Only one person ever followed the law of the Torah completely and perfectly. Even he defended his followers, after some religious men caught them breaking one of the Ten Commandments in front of him, by picking grain to eat on the sabbath. Not because the Sabbath was unimportant, or that commandment was null and void but because it was only a rule to make a person's life on earth better.

Not every law was so inflexible that if broken it prevents one from continuing to try to live right or get into heaven. Notice no one started picking up rocks, they may have brought signs but I think if they had it probably would have been recorded.

Even when the law was active during the time when God's presence was behind a veil it was not a matter of those laws being unbreakable. They were always a mix of various levels of seriousness and each would have different requirements to be met if broken, for some there was like a fine, for others there might be consequences or punishment.

The reasons the second half of the bible is called the new covenant or testament. In addition to the writings to share the Christ with non Jews, it starts with the gospels which explain how love superseded the lesser law that was mostly designed to lead the clan of Abraham and Sarah to righteousness as a partially undeserved reward.
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:30 pm

Sir, I do believe you enforced to me this very notion, tradition over Scripture. Let us explore then the antithetical teachings, as you have insisted. Please note I speak of these things out of love, and not hatred or condemnation.
- Obviously, we've already gone over that fact that sins can be forgiven by God only, not a priest.


That's an interesting system! Let me try it:

God, I did something wrong; do you forgive my sins?
...
God just told me, "yeah, it's all cool, bro."

He also told me that all of you are wrong.

I'm also feeling divinely inspired!, so whatever I write is actually the word of the Lord. My argument is as irrefutable as the Bible!
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:21 am

hahaha3hahaha wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:From other thread:

hahaha3hahaha wrote:
crispybits wrote:OK - forgive any bad typing I'm writing this on my phone.

The Catholic Church teaches that we have an immortal soul.

The Catholic Church teaches that animals do not have an immortal soul.

The Catholic Church teaches that man evolved from animals.

So at some point in our evolutionary history we had no souls and now we do? Or how does that work?

Note that I'm not the one claiming that souls exist - the Catholic Church are the ones doing that. Even if I'm willing to give them that point (and there's a lot to do before I do that) their metaphysics still has some pretty serious issues when they try and mesh it with evolution.




So, the catholic church, who seem to self-admit adhering to tradition and not Biblical scripture, are supposed to represent Biblical scripture? Interesting angle.
As for the soul thing, doesn't evolution teach that life came from non-life and rationality came from the non-rational? Again, some curious points you raise here.


Why do you keep typing that? It's inaccurate. Let's have this discussion in the other thread, but what specific things does the Catholic Church adhere to that are antithetical to the Bible (other than "a man behind a screen is my confessor")?


Sir, I do believe you enforced to me this very notion, tradition over Scripture. Let us explore then the antithetical teachings, as you have insisted. Please note I speak of these things out of love, and not hatred or condemnation.
- Obviously, we've already gone over that fact that sins can be forgiven by God only, not a priest. In Catholicism sins are not forgiven by priests; not sure where you got that idea.
- Multiple non-Biblical rituals involving the virgin Mary (ie. praying to her, worshiping her etc.) Where does the Bible state that one cannot pray to or about Mary?
- Worshiping idols What idols to Catholics worship?
- Changing the ten commandments (scrapping #2 and splitting #10 into two separate laws) Okay.
- Purgatory, again, not Biblically supported Where does the Bible say there is no purgatory?
- The alteration of the day of worship (Sabbath) from saturday to sunday to incorporate mithrics into the Roman empire Okay.
- Indulgences (paying money to be given the right to sin) - although I read that this has been outlawed a while back and was only carried about and endorsed by certain members, and was not an official church practice (perhaps you can provide clarification here) This is not currently an official or unofficial Church practice.
- As for their stance on salvation I ask you to explain the official church's doctrine on it, rather than make assumptions (though I read many claims that appall me) I'm not sure what you mean and I'm not sure where you previously asked it.

Matthew 15:9 "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."


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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby hahaha3hahaha on Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:14 am

thegreekdog wrote:- Obviously, we've already gone over that fact that sins can be forgiven by God only, not a priest. In Catholicism sins are not forgiven by priests; not sure where you got that idea. The sacrament of penance teaches that you confess your sins to a priest, and after some vane ritual (such as reciting hail Mary) your sins will be absolved.
- Multiple non-Biblical rituals involving the virgin Mary (ie. praying to her, worshiping her etc.) Where does the Bible state that one cannot pray to or about Mary? Catholicism teaches that Mary is the intercessor between man and God. Let's see what the bible has to say about that.
1 Tim 2:5– For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
John 14:6– Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
As for praying to Mary and worshiping her, this is self explanatory. We are told to worship God only, Mary was never exalted as a diety, end of story.

- Worshiping idols What idols to Catholics worship? Creed of Pope Pius IV.
“I most firmly assert, that the images of Christ, of the Mother of God, ever virgin, and also of the other saints, ought to be had and retained, and that due honor and veneration are to be given them.”

- Changing the ten commandments (scrapping #2 and splitting #10 into two separate laws) Okay.Okay? That is your retort for an organized religion changing the Holy law of God?
- Purgatory, again, not Biblically supported Where does the Bible say there is no purgatory?The Bible doesn't say that unicorns don't exist. Does this mean that they do?
- The alteration of the day of worship (Sabbath) from saturday to sunday to incorporate mithrics into the Roman empire Okay. Again, seem to be taking these things a little lightly.
- Indulgences (paying money to be given the right to sin) - although I read that this has been outlawed a while back and was only carried about and endorsed by certain members, and was not an official church practice (perhaps you can provide clarification here) This is not currently an official or unofficial Church practice. Fair enough.
- As for their stance on salvation I ask you to explain the official church's doctrine on it, rather than make assumptions (though I read many claims that appall me) I'm not sure what you mean and I'm not sure where you previously asked it. I haven't asked you before, I'm asking now. What is the catholic doctrine on salvation?
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:02 am

hahaha3hahaha wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:- Obviously, we've already gone over that fact that sins can be forgiven by God only, not a priest. In Catholicism sins are not forgiven by priests; not sure where you got that idea. The sacrament of penance teaches that you confess your sins to a priest, and after some vane ritual (such as reciting hail Mary) your sins will be absolved.Okay, but again priests don't forgive your sins; God does.
- Multiple non-Biblical rituals involving the virgin Mary (ie. praying to her, worshiping her etc.) Where does the Bible state that one cannot pray to or about Mary? Catholicism teaches that Mary is the intercessor between man and God. Let's see what the bible has to say about that.
1 Tim 2:5– For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
John 14:6– Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
As for praying to Mary and worshiping her, this is self explanatory. We are told to worship God only, Mary was never exalted as a diety, end of story.
Catholicism does not teach that Mary is an intercessor. We do not treat her as a deity.
- Worshiping idols What idols to Catholics worship? Creed of Pope Pius IV.
“I most firmly assert, that the images of Christ, of the Mother of God, ever virgin, and also of the other saints, ought to be had and retained, and that due honor and veneration are to be given them.”
Hmm... still don't see the word "worship" but okay. I think Pope Pius IV (1499-1565 I should added) is saying not to destroy the stuff.
- Changing the ten commandments (scrapping #2 and splitting #10 into two separate laws) Okay.Okay? That is your retort for an organized religion changing the Holy law of God?Yes. That seems consistent with your response to not killing adulterers with stones.
- Purgatory, again, not Biblically supported Where does the Bible say there is no purgatory?The Bible doesn't say that unicorns don't exist. Does this mean that they do?No, but if I think unicorns exist does that mean I'm violating the Bible? You seem to be making some very inconsistent arguments. On the one hand, it's okay not to do something the Bible says to do (for your religion), but on the other hand it's not okay to do something the Bible doesn't say anything about.
- The alteration of the day of worship (Sabbath) from saturday to sunday to incorporate mithrics into the Roman empire Okay. Again, seem to be taking these things a little lightly.I don't think the day of the Sabbath is something that should be a focus; so long as the Sabbath is observed, that should be enough.
- Indulgences (paying money to be given the right to sin) - although I read that this has been outlawed a while back and was only carried about and endorsed by certain members, and was not an official church practice (perhaps you can provide clarification here) This is not currently an official or unofficial Church practice. Fair enough.
- As for their stance on salvation I ask you to explain the official church's doctrine on it, rather than make assumptions (though I read many claims that appall me) I'm not sure what you mean and I'm not sure where you previously asked it. I haven't asked you before, I'm asking now. What is the catholic doctrine on salvation? http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/ ... -salvation
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:13 am

God told me that y'all's christmas-color debate is not appeasing him.
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:48 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:God told me that y'all's christmas-color debate is not appeasing him.


I'm surprised you don't get more girls.
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby hahaha3hahaha on Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:50 am

thegreekdog wrote:
hahaha3hahaha wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:- Obviously, we've already gone over that fact that sins can be forgiven by God only, not a priest. In Catholicism sins are not forgiven by priests; not sure where you got that idea. The sacrament of penance teaches that you confess your sins to a priest, and after some vane ritual (such as reciting hail Mary) your sins will be absolved.Okay, but again priests don't forgive your sins; God does. Quote from catholic.com:
"Cyprian writes that the forgiveness of sins can take place only "through the priests." Ambrose says "this right is given to priests only." Pope Leo I says absolution can be obtained only through the prayers of the priests."
- Multiple non-Biblical rituals involving the virgin Mary (ie. praying to her, worshiping her etc.) Where does the Bible state that one cannot pray to or about Mary? Catholicism teaches that Mary is the intercessor between man and God. Let's see what the bible has to say about that.
1 Tim 2:5– For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
John 14:6– Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
As for praying to Mary and worshiping her, this is self explanatory. We are told to worship God only, Mary was never exalted as a diety, end of story.
Catholicism does not teach that Mary is an intercessor. We do not treat her as a deity. Catechism of the Catholic Church
969 … “Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation … Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”
Questions and Answers about Mary
6. How is Mary our intercessor?
"Mary is our intercessor because in heaven she continues to intercede with her Son, Jesus, for us in the world.
She is our intercessor because of the following reasons: (1) As worthy Mother of God and full of grace, she occupies a middle position between God and his creatures. (2) Together with Christ and under him, she cooperated in the reconciliation of God and mankind while she was still on earth. (3) Now from heaven she distributes the graces that God bestows on his children."

- Worshiping idols What idols to Catholics worship? Creed of Pope Pius IV.
“I most firmly assert, that the images of Christ, of the Mother of God, ever virgin, and also of the other saints, ought to be had and retained, and that due honor and veneration are to be given them.”
Hmm... still don't see the word "worship" but okay. I think Pope Pius IV (1499-1565 I should added) is saying not to destroy the stuff. Veneration is a cop-out word for worship. Either that or the millions upon millions of catholics who bow and pray to statues in catholic churches are misguided about their religion's stance on idol worship. (Also isn't it interesting that out of all the ten commandments the catholics changed, they removed the 2nd one pertaining to idol worship)
- Changing the ten commandments (scrapping #2 and splitting #10 into two separate laws) Okay.Okay? That is your retort for an organized religion changing the Holy law of God?Yes. That seems consistent with your response to not killing adulterers with stones. We have already been over this. More than once.
- The alteration of the day of worship (Sabbath) from saturday to sunday to incorporate mithrics into the Roman empire Okay. Again, seem to be taking these things a little lightly.I don't think the day of the Sabbath is something that should be a focus; so long as the Sabbath is observed, that should be enough. So by that logic if I decide to change God's holy instituted sabbath to thursday, that's no problem yeah?
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Re: Christian hate group put this through my door yesterday

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:29 am

You win dude. You know way more about my religion than I do.
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