Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:23 pmby tzor
waauw wrote:tzor wrote:Yes a 19 year old person having sex with a 16 is troubling,
Must be the catholic in you talking.
No, it's just my high school years.
A HS Grad fooling around with a Sophomore?
Yes, I find that troubling, using your position to lessen the availability pool for all those other Sophomores. They have a hard enough time trying to compete with the Juniors and Seniors.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:42 pmby mrswdk
owenshooter wrote:shocker... another thread advocating pedophilia by a member that posted underage rape porn and somehow evaded any punishment...-Bj
I'm surprised a self-styled black dude is in here getting outraged at inter-generational love. The persona clearly needs a little more work before you get it fully consistent.
Posted:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:49 pmby tzor
2dimes wrote:Is the difference in age not enough?
Well, since human development is not linear, a pure difference isn't always adequate. The fact that humans have a major deviation from the development curve from the start of puberty (10-14 girls / 12-16 girls) to the final development of the frontal lobe of the brain (25) means that differences in those years are even more important than at other periods in a person's life, even taking the normal development curve into account.
This is more than physical, but a lot of intellectual functionality is being manipulated by massive hormones and the lack of the full development of the frontal lobe.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:39 pmby Dukasaur
Some of the girls I knew in high school had very well-developed frontal lobes.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:08 pmby tzor
Dukasaur wrote:Some of the girls I knew in high school had very well-developed frontal lobes.
You mean the ones that kept telling you, "NO!"
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:41 amby Symmetry
mrswdk wrote:owenshooter wrote:shocker... another thread advocating pedophilia by a member that posted underage rape porn and somehow evaded any punishment...-Bj
I'm surprised a self-styled black dude is in here getting outraged at inter-generational love. The persona clearly needs a little more work before you get it fully consistent.
Why would being black make a difference? Oh wait, it's another Mrsdwk post, racism and paedophilia are your things.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:27 pmby Thorthoth
Since this involved a 12 year old that everyone was ready to believe was 16-20 years old (!?), the laws on statutory rape should be changed from being based on numerical age to being based on physical (& mental) development.
Come to think of it all those laws about driving, voting, drinking, etc should also be determined that way.
But controlling idiots prefer meaningless & arbitrary, but easily-measured criteria rather than having to deal with meaningful factors that will involve grey areas subject to debate.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:37 pmby Dukasaur
Thorthoth wrote:Since this involved a 12 year old that everyone was ready to believe was 16-20 years old (!?), the laws on statutory rape should be changed from being based on numerical age to being based on physical (& mental) development.
Come to think of it all those laws about driving, voting, drinking, etc should also be determined that way.
But controlling idiots prefer meaningless & arbitrary, but easily-measured criteria rather than having to deal with meaningful factors that will involve grey areas subject to debate.
I would agree with your first two paragraphs, but not the third.
Arbitrary, easily-measured criteria are used because they are efficient, not because of "controlling idiots." Nobody has the time or resources to spend five days evaluating whether someone is mature enough to vote, or drive, or drink, or blow goats. We use an arbitrary number because it's quick and efficient. It makes the process affordable. Otherwise, every such determination would cost as much as your average court case, and in six weeks the nation would be bankrupt.
It's the same as our personal lives. We all make snap judgements about others based on the flimsiest evidence, and our judgements are often wrong, but it's cheaper to make some mistakes than to do some kind of mammoth battery of psych eval tests on every person we deal with. It's easy enough to imagine an ideal world where everyone is judged fairly, but in the real world there just isn't time. There quite literally isn't enough time.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:54 pmby mrswdk
Yes, that's why it's okay to discriminate against foreigns.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:30 pmby Symmetry
Dukasaur wrote:Thorthoth wrote:Since this involved a 12 year old that everyone was ready to believe was 16-20 years old (!?), the laws on statutory rape should be changed from being based on numerical age to being based on physical (& mental) development.
Come to think of it all those laws about driving, voting, drinking, etc should also be determined that way.
But controlling idiots prefer meaningless & arbitrary, but easily-measured criteria rather than having to deal with meaningful factors that will involve grey areas subject to debate.
I would agree with your first two paragraphs, but not the third.
Arbitrary, easily-measured criteria are used because they are efficient, not because of "controlling idiots." Nobody has the time or resources to spend five days evaluating whether someone is mature enough to vote, or drive, or drink, or blow goats. We use an arbitrary number because it's quick and efficient. It makes the process affordable. Otherwise, every such determination would cost as much as your average court case, and in six weeks the nation would be bankrupt.
It's the same as our personal lives. We all make snap judgements about others based on the flimsiest evidence, and our judgements are often wrong, but it's cheaper to make some mistakes than to do some kind of mammoth battery of psych eval tests on every person we deal with. It's easy enough to imagine an ideal world where everyone is judged fairly, but in the real world there just isn't time. There quite literally isn't enough time.
It's interesting how often people use the word "arbitrary" to mean "unfair" or "random" nowadays. Judges are arbiters, and their judgements are arbitrary. The laws that they interpret are arbitrary, and the ways in which they judge them are arbitrary too, often based on previous arbitrary judgements.
Perhaps the best way to think about is the old "subjective" vs "objective" argument, but that's an argument that goes to the heart of the rule of law.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:31 pmby Thorthoth
ar·bi·trar·y
ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
adjective: arbitrary
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
"his mealtimes were entirely arbitrary"
synonyms: capricious, whimsical, random, chance, unpredictable; More
casual, wanton, unmotivated, motiveless, unreasoned, unsupported, irrational, illogical, groundless, unjustified;
personal, discretionary, subjective
"an arbitrary decision"
antonyms: reasoned, rational
(of power or a ruling body) unrestrained and autocratic in the use of authority.
"arbitrary rule by King and bishops has been made impossible"
synonyms: autocratic, dictatorial, autarchic, undemocratic, despotic, tyrannical, authoritarian, high-handed; absolute, uncontrolled, unlimited, unrestrained
"the arbitrary power of the prince"
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:36 pmby Thorthoth
And yes, the powers of the judiciary are often disturbing.
Personal preferences and arcane interpretations by judges (usually appointed) can so easily undo the legislation made by democratically-elected politicians.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:52 pmby Symmetry
Thanks Thorth- people do use it as if its interchangeable with the terms you googled.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:08 pmby Dukasaur
Thorthoth wrote:And yes, the powers of the judiciary are often disturbing.
Personal preferences and arcane interpretations by judges (usually appointed) can so easily undo the legislation made by democratically-elected politicians.
Which is good. Judges are often thoughtful people who believe in thinking things through. Democratically-elected politicians are usually interested in pandering to whatever prejudice will buy the most votes at today's auction.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:59 amby Dukasaur
Thorthoth wrote:So much for democracy...
Unrestricted democracy is just mob rule. Today the mob is pissed off at the Muslims, kill all the Muslims. Tomorrow the mob is pissed off at the businessmen, kill all the businessmen. The day after that, there will be an unsubstantiated rumour that genetically modified corn causes breast cancer, kill all the geneticists. In six months you're looking at Mad Max world.
Stable democracies have reasonable safeguards to prevent the childish temper tantrums of the mob from bubbling over, or at least to slow them down until the mob has a chance to stop and rethink.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:58 amby mrswdk
Dukasaur wrote:Thorthoth wrote:So much for democracy...
Unrestricted democracy is just mob rule. Today the mob is pissed off at the Muslims, kill all the Muslims. Tomorrow the mob is pissed off at the businessmen, kill all the businessmen. The day after that, there will be an unsubstantiated rumour that genetically modified corn causes breast cancer, kill all the geneticists. In six months you're looking at Mad Max world.
Stable democracies have reasonable safeguards to prevent the childish temper tantrums of the mob from bubbling over, or at least to slow them down until the mob has a chance to stop and rethink.
It's interesting that you think the result of letting the citizens of Canada have their way would be a genocide against Muslims.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:55 amby mandalorian2298
tzor wrote:Everyone needs to go back to the original article.
It was what others would call a "statutory" rape, in that a 12 year old can't give consent even if she wanted to.
The important delta here is ONE YEAR. If she had been 13 consent would be possible.
She made such a convincing case of being four years older (16) that officers looking for underage children thought she was 16. So did other eyewitnesses.
Yes a 19 year old person having sex with a 16 is troubling, and a 12 year old trying to pretend to be 16 to have sex is even more troubling.
Moral of the story: Always ask to see the birth certificate.
Certificates can be forged, while grey hair and little mustache can be accomplished by cosmetics or an unhealthy life style.
Be smart, carbon date your date.
Re: English judge: sleeping with 12 year olds is not a crime
Posted:
Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:18 pmby 2dimes
mandalorian2298 wrote:
Certificates can be forged, while grey hair and little mustache can be accomplished by cosmetics or an unhealthy life style.
Be smart, carbon date your date.
What about cutting them in half to count the rings?
