Post Any Evidence For God Here

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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby notyou2 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:39 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
premio53 wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:Slightly different track, Vice: your interpretation is different to any other Christian I've encountered (and I've talked to many). Is it your own? or are you a member of some church or sect which is new to me?


Thank you, Vice. How about the part I've now marked in red.

Viceroy belongs to a sect which calls themselves "Jehovah Witnesses."

2 John 9 - "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."
This is the difference between orthodox Christianity and the Jehovah Witnesses. A failure to be faithful to the fundamental, sound doctrines of the faith (a proper view of the person and work of Jesus Christ, love, obedience) marks a person as having never been born again (1 John 2:23). Below is a 20 minute video that explains clearly what the Jehovah Witnesses teach


Wrong Premio!

I am not a "Jehovah Witnesses."

Never was, Never will be. They also are part of the deceived masses, that clan known as Humanity or the whole world. :lol:


How can someone that has never been exposed to any of the Abrahamic religions be a part of the "deceived masses"? A Hindu or Buddhist for example?
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:42 pm

daddy1gringo just a quick note that I will be back to respond to your posts, just havent had time to do so in the last couple of days, bear with...
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby daddy1gringo on Tue May 07, 2013 5:37 am

crispybits wrote:daddy1gringo just a quick note that I will be back to respond to your posts, just havent had time to do so in the last couple of days, bear with...
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Tue May 07, 2013 11:29 am

oops - fair play - will read through again and reply later on
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby NoSurvivors on Thu May 09, 2013 7:32 am

I was taught never to take part in religious arguments, simply because there are too many opinions; however this is an interesting thread.

Anything IS possible. Anything. Dinosaurs could repopulate the earth at exactly 6:48AM tomorrow EST. It is highly improbably, however not impossible.

Take into account that for instance, if you have a table in your living room. You turn around, you don't see the table. You do not know what that table does when you are not looking at it, to witness/prove that it doesn't do anything. In fact, you have a good idea of what it does due to when you look at it, it doesn't do anything. However, when you look away, the table could fly to the moon and back, being in the same position when you turn back around. Unlikely, but possible.

Like these examples, we do not know there is a God. However, through personal experience/family upbringing/beliefs, whatever the reason, some people believe that there is a god, based on circumstantial evidence that, when you apply things such as science, do not make much sense at all.

However on the same note, people who decide to go with the non-believing route, see things in a more "scientific" way.

Look at science. Take a good look at for example (my favorite) astronomy:

In astronomy; the creation of the universe, the galaxies, planets, moons, even the creation of evolution and such, are ALL based on circumstantial evidence, as religion is. We use OUR CREATIONS to judge how other things should be, based on past results or experiences as a species, and application of things we think we know.

Gravity, I believe is real. However, it is only a theory in a way that we think is . We cannot prove gravity is gravity all throughout the universe, we can only make predictions. "Educated" predictions. Gravity works on Earth, so it must work everywhere! Just like the earth was the center of the universe at one point, right?

The big bang, a theory. It is a good theory, with a lot of "scientific evidence", but really, is it scientific evidence? Look at it this way; we have no way of PROVING that the big bang happened, we have no way to prove it did not happen. We can guess and speculate all we want. It is exactly like God or whatever it is we want to argue (among different religions).

God might exist, there might be something bigger that watches us or that is the reason for our being, or there might not be! We will never know until we die, and even then we cannot tell others here on Earth if there is/isn't.

Therefore, I believe since there is no way to prove there is or isn't anything above, only our gut feelings and what we choose to believe, I believe we should just stop arguing, and baiting (as this is what this thread is, and don't try to tell me it isn't because "post any evidence of God here" is a title full of baiting), and just let people believe WHATEVER they want as a religion.

Religious people; stop shoving things down other people's throats.
Non religious people; stop bating and flaming the religious people who believe in something you might not.

So here is a challenge: post evidence god DOESN'T exist 100%. Go on. Try it.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu May 09, 2013 11:22 am

Define "god."
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 09, 2013 11:30 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:Define "god."


ImageImageImage

Well, Greek god.


--Andy
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu May 09, 2013 11:34 am

Oh, he exists. Obviously.


Next question.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby Viceroy63 on Thu May 09, 2013 12:39 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:I believe we should just stop arguing, and baiting (as this is what this thread is, and don't try to tell me it isn't because "post any evidence of God here" is a title full of baiting),...


Very well put!
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

There is a big difference between "Debating" and just "Baiting." But for some ignorant souls that lack understanding of basic principles about theory and facts, there isn't.

This is not a discussion threat but an ego trip for those who deem themselves superior in knowledge but in fact are ignorant of the logical truth. More people need to be aware of what this thread really is and of who the true trolls really are, especially when they pose as moderators themselves.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby waauw on Thu May 09, 2013 1:21 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:I was taught never to take part in religious arguments, simply because there are too many opinions; however this is an interesting thread.

Anything IS possible. Anything. Dinosaurs could repopulate the earth at exactly 6:48AM tomorrow EST. It is highly improbably, however not impossible.

Take into account that for instance, if you have a table in your living room. You turn around, you don't see the table. You do not know what that table does when you are not looking at it, to witness/prove that it doesn't do anything. In fact, you have a good idea of what it does due to when you look at it, it doesn't do anything. However, when you look away, the table could fly to the moon and back, being in the same position when you turn back around. Unlikely, but possible.

Like these examples, we do not know there is a God. However, through personal experience/family upbringing/beliefs, whatever the reason, some people believe that there is a god, based on circumstantial evidence that, when you apply things such as science, do not make much sense at all.

However on the same note, people who decide to go with the non-believing route, see things in a more "scientific" way.

Look at science. Take a good look at for example (my favorite) astronomy:

In astronomy; the creation of the universe, the galaxies, planets, moons, even the creation of evolution and such, are ALL based on circumstantial evidence, as religion is. We use OUR CREATIONS to judge how other things should be, based on past results or experiences as a species, and application of things we think we know.

Gravity, I believe is real. However, it is only a theory in a way that we think is . We cannot prove gravity is gravity all throughout the universe, we can only make predictions. "Educated" predictions. Gravity works on Earth, so it must work everywhere! Just like the earth was the center of the universe at one point, right?

The big bang, a theory. It is a good theory, with a lot of "scientific evidence", but really, is it scientific evidence? Look at it this way; we have no way of PROVING that the big bang happened, we have no way to prove it did not happen. We can guess and speculate all we want. It is exactly like God or whatever it is we want to argue (among different religions).

God might exist, there might be something bigger that watches us or that is the reason for our being, or there might not be! We will never know until we die, and even then we cannot tell others here on Earth if there is/isn't.

Therefore, I believe since there is no way to prove there is or isn't anything above, only our gut feelings and what we choose to believe, I believe we should just stop arguing, and baiting (as this is what this thread is, and don't try to tell me it isn't because "post any evidence of God here" is a title full of baiting), and just let people believe WHATEVER they want as a religion.

Religious people; stop shoving things down other people's throats.
Non religious people; stop bating and flaming the religious people who believe in something you might not.

So here is a challenge: post evidence god DOESN'T exist 100%. Go on. Try it.


Although I do follow you a part of your opinion, I do not agree with all your statements. For instance you say that gravity is only a theory. I do not agree with this. The fact that it has been used in so many calculations so many times for over 300 years with only failing in a few cases, like the expansion of the universe, makes it a fact and not a theory. If it was only a theory and not a fact it would have never worked so well in so many calculations. What can be true though is that there are other forces who influence gravity.

I do have to admit however that the same does not go for the big bang theory. You are right that this is just a theory. You should however consider not just the existence of it's supporting evidence but the type of evidence. In that respect I think it is unfair to judge it the same way as you judge religions. Religions and science differ greatly in the types of delivered evidence. While religious evidence rests mostly on some written evidence and human experiences, science relies on logic and more importantly empirical evidence.

Another matter you state is that a divine existence can not be 100% proven or disproven. This although right in the general meaning of the word, is not entirely true. You can 100% disprove certain definitions of divine entities.

I'll give you an example. Let us suppose someone believes in the existence of a creator who is all powerfull, all knowing and all good, with good being defined here as wanting to prevent suffering. In this specific example there is a logical fallacy. If a God is all good, he should be willing to do something about all the suffering in the world. If he is all knowing, he should be aware of the all the suffering in the world. And if he is all powerfull he should be able to do something about the suffering. In other words in this example the god-entity should be using his power right now get rid of all the suffering. Yet we can see suffering all over the globe. In other words this definition of a divine creator is 100% wrong according to logic as at least one of it's features must be untrue.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby Viceroy63 on Thu May 09, 2013 5:16 pm

That God permits suffering for a reason and a purpose in the final creation of man does not suggest that God is NOT "All Good." God created man but the creation is not completely created yet. Man is created to need a spiritual aspect that is not yet instilled in man. This is suggested in the garden of Eden by the tree of life (Genesis 3:24). That same tree is then found at the end of creation in Revelation 22:14 when man (all who desire so) will be finally completed and fully created.

That God permits evil and suffering is all a part of that plan to create man in his image and likeness. But God did not create the evil that all mankind suffers. It is simply a by product (created by men and evil forces) of the process of creation. Like the old saying goes you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. It's a part of the process in creating an omelet breakfast. Only there are bigger implications in creating a God like character then simple broken egg shells and God certainly did not break any. Man has to see for himself the rewards of a life that is contrary to God's way of doing things and then choose by seeing the results of his choices.

If there were no suffering then there would be no need to choose between suffering and ease. If a way of life leads to one and another way leads to the other then how could we choose which way to live unless we see the effects of both choices. It's not God who is even allowing the suffering to continue but mankind himself. From the desires of our hearts which by nature (because we lack spiritual completion in creation so far) produce sin and wars and all manner of "die-sease" and suffering. It is humanities stubborn refusal to live a way that produces peace and love that creates and maintains the suffering.

Everyone is looking to blame some one else and we are so quick to say, "If God were 'all good' then why does He allow suffering?" I would rather ask the question, "If we humans are basically 'good people,' then why does suffering exist in the first place?"
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby Lootifer on Thu May 09, 2013 5:33 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
NoSurvivors wrote:I believe we should just stop arguing, and baiting (as this is what this thread is, and don't try to tell me it isn't because "post any evidence of God here" is a title full of baiting),...


Very well put!
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

There is a big difference between "Debating" and just "Baiting." But for some ignorant souls that lack understanding of basic principles about theory and facts, there isn't.

This is not a discussion threat but an ego trip for those who deem themselves superior in knowledge but in fact are ignorant of the logical truth. More people need to be aware of what this thread really is and of who the true trolls really are, especially when they pose as moderators themselves.

Irony overload!
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby NoSurvivors on Thu May 09, 2013 5:59 pm

I asked my grandmother (who is extremely religious, however the sweetest old lady you'll ever meet), why god allows suffering.

Her response was this:

God did not create suffering. However he allowed it to happen.

When the first two people (Adam and eve as per the bible) were created and put in the garden of Eden, they were told that "you can eat any of the fruit in here but not one from a certain tree" (he told them what tree I just don't know what one it was lol). They were told that if temptation were to get the best of them, they would suffer the conveniences of disobeying their creator.

God let them have a choice. If we were all simply made with love of god programmed into us what is the point in making us in the first place? Earning love is a much better feeling than just having it. Also; if fit did not give us choice, what kind of god is that? Not a very fair one.

So yeah, long story short they ate from the tree and now we are exposed to evils as the consequence of them giving in to temptation against god. (I think that I show the story went, vice likely knows more than me about it).

I think that god (if he exusts) is all fair. He gave us choice and that is a pretty fair deal. I'm not gonna reveal anything about what I personally believe, but yeah just trying to give poor vice a break from the mean people that seem to lurk this thread..

Hats off to you man, sticking by what you believe.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby NoSurvivors on Thu May 09, 2013 6:02 pm

@ waauw,

I agree with you that it's strange if there is a god then why not help us.. But honestly we kinda made that mess ourselves didn't we? The suffering is manmade in my opinion.. Famine because of our system and how we chose to be. Some people suffer abd have no hope anymore. I think money rules the world, but that is a different topic.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu May 09, 2013 6:45 pm

If you can't define what it is you're trying to prove/disprove, then you can't advance the argument.
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