Post Any Evidence For God Here

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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby jonesthecurl on Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:26 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:Then how successful has god been in spreading his word?
Just you?
You and some of the authorities you quote?
You and the Radio Church of God?


Hey, that is God's business not yours. You just worry about yourself and the final judgment that is appointed unto each one of us. ;)

"A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened."
-Daniel 7:10

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
-Hebrews 9:27



Well. if it's only you, you might to do a little re-evaluating.
I'm not asking GOd, I'm asking you.
And you made that my business by preaching at me.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby jonesthecurl on Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:30 pm

P.S. whihc secular historians record the price for which Judas sold Jesus?
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:28 pm

jonesthecurl wrote:P.S. whihc secular historians record the price for which Judas sold Jesus?


Earl, You should look into things like that for yourself. I could be lying to you. anyone can. Don't take my word for it or anyone's for that matter. Don't even take the Bible's word for it (If you ever manage to read it and see for yourself), Just Google search it... Historians, Judas, 30 pieces of silver... And see what pops up?
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby daddy1gringo on Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:48 pm

GreecePwns wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:First, forget Lionz.. and, to some extent Viceroy as well. Looking to them as "representatives" of Christianity is about like saying folks who camp out at area 54 are representative of scientists or even just representative of those who think life on other planets might exist. I don't care what kind of idea you bring up, people will give all sorts of ideas on it. That's because we are all human.
What makes Lionz' and Viceroy's interpretations (which have dadddygringo's endorsements and which are actually pretty popular in the Christian community) any more or less right than yours or Night Strike's or that of any sect of Christianity?
Woah, hold on there. All I said is that they weren't simply using the silly circular argument, "The Bible is true because the Bible says so." That doesn't mean I endorse everything they say. I agree with them that God exists and that the Bible is his word to man (I think players### would say the same, and she and I agree on almost nothing else) but there are various things that each of them have said with which I would not want to be associated.

I suppose I agree with a lot of what they both say about the Bible being consistent with archaeology and making unannily accurate predictions through history, but I really don't think that's a worthwhile line to take in a forum like this, and have not done so.

The point I would like to make from all this, and I think Players would agree with me here too, is that other than a very VERY, few beliefs that are the absolute common ground, any doctrrine expressed by any Christian is no excuse for rejecting Christ as savior.

You don't believe that Genesis is literal? Fine; dont. Lots of Christians don't. (I'll go out on a limb here) You don't believe that homosexuality is an aberration and a spiritual problem that can be healed? Fine; don't. Lots of Christians don't.

You wouldn't side with those who don't believe those things because you think they are being inconsistent, "cherry-picking", and compromising? Fine, don't. Take your stand with the hard-liners. I really don't care, and I don't believe God does either.
The right answer to the wrong question is still the wrong answer to the real question.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby 2dimes on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:02 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:P.S. which secular historians record the price for which Judas sold Jesus?


Earl, You should look into things like that for yourself. I could be lying to you. anyone can. Don't take my word for it or anyone's for that matter. Don't even take the Bible's word for it (If you ever manage to read it and see for yourself), Just Google search it... Historians, Judas, 30 pieces of silver... And see what pops up?


I went for it. I wonder if I did it wrong?
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:29 pm

It's not just the inconsistencies between positions that many people have problems with daddy, it's inconsistencies within each position (or at least all of the non-100%-literal or non-100%-symbolic positions). How does anyone (christian or otherwise) decide which bits of the bible are literal truth, and which bits are symbolism and parable intended to guide us towards moral truth without being meant to be taken literally? And who decides which is which? And why does, for instance, your interpretation have more significance for you than Viceroy's (and vice versa) if you're both talking about the same immutable thing (absolute moral truth)?

Is God's absolute moral truth actually a mutable and constantly changing thing as fits the culture (because every culture has different moral standards and the biblee has been influential in many of these different settings), or is it a fixed and unchanging thing (and if so why does biblical interpretation change over the centuries)?
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:40 pm

Viceroy, of those thirteen "predictions," how many of those do you think occurred after the prediction was recorded in the Bible?
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby jonesthecurl on Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:51 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:P.S. whihc secular historians record the price for which Judas sold Jesus?


Earl, You should look into things like that for yourself. I could be lying to you. anyone can. Don't take my word for it or anyone's for that matter. Don't even take the Bible's word for it (If you ever manage to read it and see for yourself), Just Google search it... Historians, Judas, 30 pieces of silver... And see what pops up?



I have read the entire bible for myself thank you, as I have many other religious works.
I have never read any historical documentation detailing the amount that Judas was paid for betraying Jesus.
I'm pretty certain there are none.
Perhaps you could help me out?
Or have you just accepted what the good Doctor said as yet another unimpeachable authority? You seem to have a lot of them.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby chang50 on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:30 am

daddy1gringo wrote:
GreecePwns wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:First, forget Lionz.. and, to some extent Viceroy as well. Looking to them as "representatives" of Christianity is about like saying folks who camp out at area 54 are representative of scientists or even just representative of those who think life on other planets might exist. I don't care what kind of idea you bring up, people will give all sorts of ideas on it. That's because we are all human.
What makes Lionz' and Viceroy's interpretations (which have dadddygringo's endorsements and which are actually pretty popular in the Christian community) any more or less right than yours or Night Strike's or that of any sect of Christianity?
Woah, hold on there. All I said is that they weren't simply using the silly circular argument, "The Bible is true because the Bible says so." That doesn't mean I endorse everything they say. I agree with them that God exists and that the Bible is his word to man (I think players### would say the same, and she and I agree on almost nothing else) but there are various things that each of them have said with which I would not want to be associated.

I suppose I agree with a lot of what they both say about the Bible being consistent with archaeology and making unannily accurate predictions through history, but I really don't think that's a worthwhile line to take in a forum like this, and have not done so.

The point I would like to make from all this, and I think Players would agree with me here too, is that other than a very VERY, few beliefs that are the absolute common ground, any doctrrine expressed by any Christian is no excuse for rejecting Christ as savior.

You don't believe that Genesis is literal? Fine; dont. Lots of Christians don't. (I'll go out on a limb here) You don't believe that homosexuality is an aberration and a spiritual problem that can be healed? Fine; don't. Lots of Christians don't.

You wouldn't side with those who don't believe those things because you think they are being inconsistent, "cherry-picking", and compromising? Fine, don't. Take your stand with the hard-liners. I really don't care, and I don't believe God does either.


I just reckon you have to have an incredibly high opinion of your species to imagine any of them can reliably interpret the word of the ultimate creator,should one exist.The word that best describes this is fatuousness,or stupid vanity.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby tzor on Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:50 am

jonesthecurl wrote:P.S. which secular historians record the price for which Judas sold Jesus?


Which "secular" historians covered Jerusalem at the time of Christ?
Which "secular" historians would cover "history" to that level of detail?

I'll give you a hint ... NONE!

Velleius Paterculus, a Roman historian, died a few years before the crucifixion. But he concentrated on Romans, not on non-Romans.

Flavius Josephus, was not even born until several years after the crucifixion and was a Jewish historian with a very large chip on his shoulder.

So if you look at the timeline of historians you will see that there are few, far between, and none around A.D. 33.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby jonesthecurl on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:25 pm

tzor wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:P.S. which secular historians record the price for which Judas sold Jesus?


Which "secular" historians covered Jerusalem at the time of Christ?
Which "secular" historians would cover "history" to that level of detail?

I'll give you a hint ... NONE!

Velleius Paterculus, a Roman historian, died a few years before the crucifixion. But he concentrated on Romans, not on non-Romans.

Flavius Josephus, was not even born until several years after the crucifixion and was a Jewish historian with a very large chip on his shoulder.

So if you look at the timeline of historians you will see that there are few, far between, and none around A.D. 33.


my point. thank you.
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby jonesthecurl on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:28 pm

Oh, for those of you who just blank out viceroy's diatribes, this was part of his proof for the veracity of biblical prophesies: getting the price right, AS VERIFIED BY SECULAR HISTORIANS.. Hence my question.

Viceroy, any backup on that point yet?
And remember what the poet said – “in booty there is loot, and in loot booty.” Or sump’n like that.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby AAFitz on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:42 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:Then how successful has god been in spreading his word?
Just you?
You and some of the authorities you quote?
You and the Radio Church of God?


Hey, that is God's business not yours. You just worry about yourself and the final judgment that is appointed unto each one of us. ;)

"A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened."
-Daniel 7:10

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
-Hebrews 9:27


How many thousands of men have quoted these and similar passages...and are already dead?

Its a rhetorical question of course. All I can say is perhaps you should read that bit of advice, and maybe learn from it yourself.

Fitzy out.
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby crispybits on Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:54 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letter—no errors.


How do you explain this one Viceroy if there's no errors?

Ezekiel 26:3-14

Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. 5 Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord. She will become plunder for the nations, 6 and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the Lord.

7 “For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. 9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. 11 The hooves of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. 12 They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. 13 I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. 14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord.


But....

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=tyre+l ... n&t=h&z=16
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Re: Post Any Evidence For God Here

Postby Viceroy63 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:39 am

tzor wrote:
jonesthecurl wrote:P.S. which secular historians record the price for which Judas sold Jesus?


Which "secular" historians covered Jerusalem at the time of Christ?
Which "secular" historians would cover "history" to that level of detail?

I'll give you a hint ... NONE!

Velleius Paterculus, a Roman historian, died a few years before the crucifixion. But he concentrated on Romans, not on non-Romans.

Flavius Josephus, was not even born until several years after the crucifixion and was a Jewish historian with a very large chip on his shoulder.

So if you look at the timeline of historians you will see that there are few, far between, and none around A.D. 33.


Well yeah, that makes sense since anyone who claimed to be a Christian was put to death at the time. So would the works of anyone who wrote about it be burned as well most likely.

So if you were living there at the time and you saw this persecution and murdering of Christians going on, you certainly are not going to write about it! At least not from a Christian's perspective. Why take the risk of death?

Also it is my understanding that historians usually write about history after the facts. So all historians basically write in hindsight. Those who write the news as it happens are not historians but reporters. And if they are not killing reporters at the time for reporting the news, then it is a good job to have. Although even the news is greatly biased and manipulated as well.
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