john9blue wrote:crispybits wrote:If you label yourself yes, then it shows you have cognition of the idea. However a baby is not labelling itself anything. By the definition of atheism as "lacking belief in God(s)" then babies are atheists, because it is impossible to have belief in something if you do not have a mental concept for that thing. Whether they consider themselves to be athiests or not is irrelevant. TN is a subset of atheism.
what if i told you that you didn't believe in "skub".
what is skub? it could be god, it could be your mom, it could be flying unicorns. how would you know whether you believed in it or not? you don't even know what it is.crispybits wrote:There is an anti-theist set of arguments that often get repeated, but there is a difference between that and indoctrination. Indoctrination into an idea by definition does not encourage/allow criticism of that idea. Anti-theism wants debate, it wants people to come up against it, present their evidence or their argument or whatever and have the discussion. Religion (as a philosophy) wants to shut down the discussion, it allows no debate. "This is the word of God" is not allowing for any debate, it is a debate ender, because whoever says it has no way to change their position without abandoning it entirely. Have you ever heard any religious person saying "This is the word of God, but you know what he may have been wrong on this issue"?
i have a hard time believing this, since no atheist i have ever talked to has ever admitted being wrong about any of their beliefs despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.waauw wrote:Well then you made a horrible mistake in formulating your statement.
The fact that many atheists claim the same things, does not make it an indoctrination. According to the oxford dictionary indoctrination is making people believe things without them questioning it. This is not the case with atheism. Atheists base themselves on science and science does provide them evidence, often even conclusive evidence(for example heliocentrism).
Atheism is also individualistic in it's nature. It does not offer a holy script with all the need to know in it. No, atheism allows people to make up their own mind about the many scientific theories out there. There is a reason why atheism started growing with the birth of liberalism as liberalism is about freedom to believe and think whatever you choose.
In fact it are the religious people who are often indoctrinated, not the atheists. Many religions are based on holy scripts, which themselves have no scientific foundation and are filled with logical conflicts. It are these scripts which are then taught to children. They only learn what they should believe in but do not receive any logical nor scientific foundation on why to believe it. This in it's definition is indoctrination.
how often do you hear about "non-stamp collectors"?
how about the invisible pink unicorn? russell's teapot? how about "you're an atheist for one less god than i am"? or "i'm an agnostic atheist, not one of THOSE atheists"?
how about the rest of the litany of quotes by modern atheist writers that get repeated over and over again?
all invalid arguments, all repeated mindlessly and unquestioned by most modern atheists. (and yes, most religious people are the same way)
so don't give me this shit about how you are all individualistic free-thinkers. i know what a free-thinker sounds like, and this isn't it. in fact, i bet i can guess 90% of your political beliefs, because i'm well-versed in the way people like you think. you are all pretty much the same.[/quote
Ok I'll bite.describe 90% of my political beliefs,you might start by giving my voting record 1974-2003 in the UK.Should be easy seeing as we are all pretty much the same and you are so prescient..