SB 1070: Most Controversial Component IS Constitutional

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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 22, 2010 10:09 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:... Not to imply that all illegals are gun-carrying gang-bangers, but too many are.


For that matter, too many god-damned Americans are, as well. No, I'm not at all comparing the two...just making a statement about something that really pisses me off.


2 wrongs make a right? or is it since one problem exists, we should not even deal with the other one?
Where does this come from?


What are you blabbering on about? Seriously...fucking idiots like you not bothering to read but all too willing to reply piss me off too.

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:2 wrongs make a right? or is it since one problem exists, we should not even deal with the other one?

Where does this come from?


You should stop automatically jumping down Woodruff's throat with everything.

I hear you, except for this is at least the third time I've seen someone say, to a point, we can't crack down on a crime when crime exists in other places......


Where did I say anything remotely like that? Fucking idiot.
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Nobunaga on Mon May 24, 2010 4:44 pm

... Another of our elected dunderheads, a Kennedy this time, shows the world his idiocy.

"So, this idea of, you know, racial profiling, takes us backwards and really goes to the worst character of our nation and it’s, it’s demeaning to our country that we would move in that direction," said Kennedy. "It’s beneath us as a people.”

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/66467

... It's 17 pages.. How hard could it be to read it before jumping in front of a camera to talk about it?

... And I wonder if he feels that way with regard to federal law ... :roll:

... In truth, I would bet he knows that the bill specifically prohibits racial profiling in any way. He is counting on our obsession with Dancing with the Stars, A Minute to Win It, and 24 to keep us too busy, too uninterested and too complacent to know any better.

...
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon May 24, 2010 5:49 pm

Nobunaga wrote:... Another of our elected dunderheads, a Kennedy this time, shows the world his idiocy.

"So, this idea of, you know, racial profiling, takes us backwards and really goes to the worst character of our nation and it’s, it’s demeaning to our country that we would move in that direction," said Kennedy. "It’s beneath us as a people.”

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/66467

... It's 17 pages.. How hard could it be to read it before jumping in front of a camera to talk about it?

... And I wonder if he feels that way with regard to federal law ... :roll:

... In truth, I would bet he knows that the bill specifically prohibits racial profiling in any way. He is counting on our obsession with Dancing with the Stars, A Minute to Win It, and 24 to keep us too busy, too uninterested and too complacent to know any better.

...

Yes, it prohibits racial profiling... and then goes on to allow so many things that can be easily used as back-handed racial profiling that it makes it pretty obvious racial profiling will be used.... unless, of course your mind is numbed by Dancing with the Stars or whatever.
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 24, 2010 5:58 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:... Not to imply that all illegals are gun-carrying gang-bangers, but too many are.


For that matter, too many god-damned Americans are, as well. No, I'm not at all comparing the two...just making a statement about something that really pisses me off.


2 wrongs make a right? or is it since one problem exists, we should not even deal with the other one?
Where does this come from?


What are you blabbering on about? Seriously...fucking idiots like you not bothering to read but all too willing to reply piss me off too.

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:2 wrongs make a right? or is it since one problem exists, we should not even deal with the other one?

Where does this come from?


You should stop automatically jumping down Woodruff's throat with everything.

I hear you, except for this is at least the third time I've seen someone say, to a point, we can't crack down on a crime when crime exists in other places......


Where did I say anything remotely like that? Fucking idiot.

Of course you deny it
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Woodruff on Mon May 24, 2010 6:00 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:... Not to imply that all illegals are gun-carrying gang-bangers, but too many are.


For that matter, too many god-damned Americans are, as well. No, I'm not at all comparing the two...just making a statement about something that really pisses me off.


2 wrongs make a right? or is it since one problem exists, we should not even deal with the other one?
Where does this come from?


What are you blabbering on about? Seriously...fucking idiots like you not bothering to read but all too willing to reply piss me off too.

Phatscotty wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:2 wrongs make a right? or is it since one problem exists, we should not even deal with the other one?

Where does this come from?


You should stop automatically jumping down Woodruff's throat with everything.

I hear you, except for this is at least the third time I've seen someone say, to a point, we can't crack down on a crime when crime exists in other places......


Where did I say anything remotely like that? Fucking idiot.

Of course you deny it


There's nothing to deny, you fucking retard.
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Phatscotty on Mon May 24, 2010 9:31 pm

cuz you were comparing the two.

Did you know, when you get angry, your nostrils flare up ever so slightly, just like this... :P

Did you read the bill?
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Nobunaga on Tue May 25, 2010 6:01 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:... Another of our elected dunderheads, a Kennedy this time, shows the world his idiocy.

"So, this idea of, you know, racial profiling, takes us backwards and really goes to the worst character of our nation and it’s, it’s demeaning to our country that we would move in that direction," said Kennedy. "It’s beneath us as a people.”

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/66467

... It's 17 pages.. How hard could it be to read it before jumping in front of a camera to talk about it?

... And I wonder if he feels that way with regard to federal law ... :roll:

... In truth, I would bet he knows that the bill specifically prohibits racial profiling in any way. He is counting on our obsession with Dancing with the Stars, A Minute to Win It, and 24 to keep us too busy, too uninterested and too complacent to know any better.

...

Yes, it prohibits racial profiling... and then goes on to allow so many things that can be easily used as back-handed racial profiling that it makes it pretty obvious racial profiling will be used.... unless, of course your mind is numbed by Dancing with the Stars or whatever.


... You keep saying that. Be specific. I have a copy of the bill, show where it is you see such potential for racial abuse.

... Or do you just hate cops?

...
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Woodruff on Tue May 25, 2010 11:27 am

Phatscotty wrote:cuz you were comparing the two.


Making a single statement that coincidentally is similar to a preceding statement is not a comparison. If I were comparing the two, there would have been some depth to the endeavor, rather than a simple statement. I'm sorry you're unable to conceptualize complex ideas such as this, but you should try not to force definitions onto things that do not exist. Fucking retard.

Phatscotty wrote:Did you read the bill?


How is that relevant to the point I was making?
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Phatscotty on Tue May 25, 2010 7:18 pm

Face it you are wrong on this one

Did you read the bill?
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Woodruff on Tue May 25, 2010 8:01 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Face it you are wrong on this one


Flat statements that I'm wrong aren't particularly convincing. Exactly what is it that I'm wrong about, Phatscotty? I take it that you believe that not nearly enough Americans are gun-carrying gangbangers?

Phatscotty wrote:Did you read the bill?


How is it relevant to my point?
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Scott-Land on Wed May 26, 2010 11:25 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:It does look like a driver's license will suffice. This is strange because normally licenses are not accepted as proof of citizenship. I still have issues with the law. It IS still the first time that not having documentation of citizenship can be considered a crime.

And, sorry, but I don't trust the government enough to stay within the limits you claim.

As for the "emergency". Such is always the excuse when rights are eroded. You said as much regarding fire arms.


Driver's licenses are never used as proof of citizenship in the state of Arizona or any other state for that matter.... presumed to be lawfully present does not equate to being a citizen of the United States. You can be lawfully present (and obtain a driver's license or state ID) temporarily or otherwise without being one [citizen] i.e. visas, permanent residence, etc. ;)
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed May 26, 2010 12:04 pm

Scott-Land wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:It does look like a driver's license will suffice. This is strange because normally licenses are not accepted as proof of citizenship. I still have issues with the law. It IS still the first time that not having documentation of citizenship can be considered a crime.

And, sorry, but I don't trust the government enough to stay within the limits you claim.

As for the "emergency". Such is always the excuse when rights are eroded. You said as much regarding fire arms.


Driver's licenses are never used as proof of citizenship in the state of Arizona or any other state for that matter.... presumed to be lawfully present does not equate to being a citizen of the United States. You can be lawfully present (and obtain a driver's license or state ID) temporarily or otherwise without being one [citizen] i.e. visas, permanent residence, etc. ;)

Read the laws again. Anybody merely suspected to not be a citizen can be hauled in and asked to demonstrate proof that they are a citizen.
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby Scott-Land on Wed May 26, 2010 12:29 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Scott-Land wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:It does look like a driver's license will suffice. This is strange because normally licenses are not accepted as proof of citizenship. I still have issues with the law. It IS still the first time that not having documentation of citizenship can be considered a crime.



Driver's licenses are never used as proof of citizenship in the state of Arizona or any other state for that matter.... presumed to be lawfully present does not equate to being a citizen of the United States. You can be lawfully present (and obtain a driver's license or state ID) temporarily or otherwise without being one [citizen] i.e. visas, permanent residence, etc. ;)

Read the laws again. Anybody merely suspected to not be a citizen can be hauled in and asked to demonstrate proof that they are a citizen.


What does it have to do with your statement : It does look like a driver's license will suffice. This is strange because normally licenses are not accepted as proof of citizenship.

I fully understand the law-- but I don't think you do. There is a difference between being lawfully present and a citizen of the United States. A driver's license may indeed prove one to be lawfully present but in no way does it suffice as proof of citizenship! They are not one of the same.
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed May 26, 2010 12:35 pm

Scott-Land wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Scott-Land wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:It does look like a driver's license will suffice. This is strange because normally licenses are not accepted as proof of citizenship. I still have issues with the law. It IS still the first time that not having documentation of citizenship can be considered a crime.



Driver's licenses are never used as proof of citizenship in the state of Arizona or any other state for that matter.... presumed to be lawfully present does not equate to being a citizen of the United States. You can be lawfully present (and obtain a driver's license or state ID) temporarily or otherwise without being one [citizen] i.e. visas, permanent residence, etc. ;)

Read the laws again. Anybody merely suspected to not be a citizen can be hauled in and asked to demonstrate proof that they are a citizen.


What does it have to do with your statement : It does look like a driver's license will suffice. This is strange because normally licenses are not accepted as proof of citizenship.

I fully understand the law-- but I don't think you do. There is a difference between being lawfully present and a citizen of the United States. A driver's license may indeed prove one to be lawfully present but in no way does it suffice as proof or mean that you are a citizen!

You are taking this out of context. I was answering a point put forward by someone else. However, your argument, if anything is another reason to question this law. This gets into what I mean by "careful language". The law speaks of "unlawful reason" but the only thing that would make someone "unlawfully present" is violating a restraining order and lack of citizenship. I doubt they have enough restraining orders issued to warrant this change.

The bottom line is that now Arizona is the only state in the union where you are required, by law, to have ID OR you can face getting hauled into jail on supicion of not being there legally. That is the kind of behavior we expected from the old Soviet Russia, not the US.
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Re: Arizona Immigration Bill - SB 1070

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed May 26, 2010 12:38 pm

Nobunaga wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:... Another of our elected dunderheads, a Kennedy this time, shows the world his idiocy.

"So, this idea of, you know, racial profiling, takes us backwards and really goes to the worst character of our nation and it’s, it’s demeaning to our country that we would move in that direction," said Kennedy. "It’s beneath us as a people.”

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/66467

... It's 17 pages.. How hard could it be to read it before jumping in front of a camera to talk about it?

... And I wonder if he feels that way with regard to federal law ... :roll:

... In truth, I would bet he knows that the bill specifically prohibits racial profiling in any way. He is counting on our obsession with Dancing with the Stars, A Minute to Win It, and 24 to keep us too busy, too uninterested and too complacent to know any better.

...

Yes, it prohibits racial profiling... and then goes on to allow so many things that can be easily used as back-handed racial profiling that it makes it pretty obvious racial profiling will be used.... unless, of course your mind is numbed by Dancing with the Stars or whatever.


... You keep saying that. Be specific. I have a copy of the bill, show where it is you see such potential for racial abuse.

...

All, ALL that is necessary to haul someone in is for the cop to suspect the person is in the country illegally. Sure, the law says "no racial profiling", but looking at specific behaviors, having and accent, etc are all perfectly legal.

Some parts of Arizona already have a deservedly bad reputation when it comes to treatment of Mexican Americans. This law gives those idiots even more justification to target whomever THEY wish. If you think race is not a big part of that.. you are truly naive.
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