You know what really grinds my gears...

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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:24 am

Lootifer wrote:People who drink Powerade Zero.

Seriously I hate stupidity when it manifests itself in consumption of a pointless product.

[rant about how pointless powerade zero is]
Right!

The thing with powerade zero is it contains electrolytes, but no calories. On the surface that seems fine. Many products are like this. HOWEVER unlike coke zero or pepsi max or other zero calorie drinks powerade zero is marketed as a sports supplement; you dont see ads for coke zero on the wall of a gym.

Now marketing it as a sports supplement is fine; free market and all that. But my problem is people consuming it as a sport supplment. These people are flat out fucking retarded. They should have their voting rights disabled as they have quite clearly shown the inability to critically think. Let me explain why.

Electrolyte sports supplments are very useful things. In fact many coaches and sports nutritionists will actively tell their athletes to consume them. The reason is they work: during hard exercise your body depletes many things, two of which are energy and electrolytes (basically salts). Within 20 minutes of exercise your body is going to want these things, in fact our bodies have been created or evolved to have the ability to absorb these things at a much quicker rate than we normally would stright after exercise - by doing so we are also assisting the training process (i.e. building muscle/improving CV system etc).

Now there are two types of exercisers: those who work hard, and those who turn up to the gym and do f*ck all*. Only those who work hard actually need to drink powerade or any other sports drink; those who do f*ck all dont because they dont deplete their electrolyte or energy levels in any meaningful way. Powerade Zero is useless to both these types (but is aimed at both). The first group would be shooting themselves in the foot by drinking powerade zero because they need the glycogen injection into their muscles - regardless of motivation (weight loss/fitness/whatever) you dont really want to neglect this as it will hurt your progress - in fact the energy top up is more important than the electrolyte top up. The second group should just be drinking water; they do not need the electrolytes; in fact if they want something other than water drink coke zero or some other low-cal fizzy drink: it usually tastes better (I dont drink either, but generally speaking).

TL;DR: There is no one who needs to drink powerade zero for sporting purposes. Thus anyone who does is a fucking toolface moron.
[/rant about how pointless powerade zero is]

* I am being unfairly harsh on casual or low-pain exercisers: dont get me wrong, I like what you are doing and encourage you to keep doing it; but just think: If you could get another wear out of your gym gear at a push (you wouldnt of course, but its not dripping in sweat) then you dont need to drink powerade.


Actually, Powerade/Gatorade/sports drinks (anything that tries to sell you "electrolytes") are pretty much modern day snake oil and are a waste of money unless you're a marathon runner or strenuously exercise more than 6 hours.

From my a&p book:

Unfounded notions and rumors about water and salt requirements during exercise abound. Sweat is a hypotonic solution that contains Na+ in lower concentration than the ECF [extracellular fluid]. As a result, a person who is sweating profusely loses more water than salt, and this loss leads to a rise in the Na+ concentration of the ECF. The water content of the ECF decreases as the water loss occurs, so blood volume drops. Clinically, this condition is called volume depletion. Because volume depletion occurs at the same time that blood is being shunted away from the kidneys, kidney function is impaired and waste products accumulate in the blood.

To prevent volume depletion, exercising athletes should drink liquids at regular intervals. The primary problem in volume depletion is water loss, and research has revealed no basis for the rumor that cramps will result if you drink while exercising. Salt pills and the various sports beverages that claim "faster absorption" and "better electrolyte balance" have no apparent benefits. Body reserves of electrolytes are sufficient to tolerate extended periods of strenuous activity, and problems with Na+ balance are extremely unlikely except during marathons or other activities that involve maximal exertion for more than six hours. However, both volume depletion (causing acute renal failure) and water intoxication (causing fatal hyponatremia [low sodium concentration in serum]) have occurred in marathon runners.

Some sports beverages contain sugars and vitamins as well as electrolytes. During endurance events, solutions containing less than 10 g/dL of glucose may improve one's performance if consumed late in the event, when metabolic reserves are exhausted. However, high sugar concentrations (above 10 g/dL) can cause cramps, diarrhea, and other problems. The benefit of "glucose polymers" (often cornstarch) in sports drinks has yet to be proved. Drinking beverages "fortified" with vitamins is actively discouraged: Vitamins are not lost during exercise, and the consumption of these beverages in large volumes could, over time, cause hypervitaminosis.


-Frederic H. Martini, Ph.D., Judi L Nath, Ph.D., Edwin F. Bartholomew, M.S.

-TG
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:19 pm

So electrolytes is not what plants crave?
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Lootifer on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:17 pm

I was talking about post workout. Not pre or during.

And yeah electrolytes are pretty meh. But im paying the same for a bottle of coke as I am gatorade and I would prefer non carbonated. You can mix sugar with water and drink that as far as I'm concerned. Just dont drink ssalt solution with sweetner and claim its because ur sporty
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:27 pm

I like some lemonade with a lil salt. Mix about 2 liters of that, and a day of outdoor labor will be manageable. To hell with those corporate electrolytes! Grinds my gears! And those damn consumers and their individual preferences!
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Army of GOD on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:26 pm

I don't drink Gatorade for the electrolytes (though they are what I crave) but because it tastes damn good while playing a sport.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Lootifer on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:04 pm

Orange ice 4 lyfe
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Army of GOD on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:45 am

Fruit Punch fuckers
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:50 am

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Actually, Powerade/Gatorade/sports drinks (anything that tries to sell you "electrolytes") are pretty much modern day snake oil and are a waste of money unless you're a marathon runner or strenuously exercise more than 6 hours.

Its worse than that. They are socked full of either sugar or artificial sugars in such quantities they are bad for adults, nevermind kids. They can actually effective dehydrate young kids, in some cases. (give them too many electrolytes compared to the fluid intake).

Even marathon runners really need to pair it with water.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Lootifer on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:00 pm

Sports drinks are perfectly good for athletes. Its just the proportion sports drink consumers who qualify as genuine athletes is incredibly small.

Blame the marketing and culture; not the product.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby ManBungalow on Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:22 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Actually, Powerade/Gatorade/sports drinks (anything that tries to sell you "electrolytes") are pretty much modern day snake oil and are a waste of money unless you're a marathon runner or strenuously exercise more than 6 hours.

Its worse than that. They are socked full of either sugar or artificial sugars in such quantities they are bad for adults, nevermind kids. They can actually effective dehydrate young kids, in some cases. (give them too many electrolytes compared to the fluid intake).

Even marathon runners really need to pair it with water.

I'm not sure what you mean by artificial sugars. Ultimately, all sugars are plant products. There's just no reason not to use the sugar provided to us. Except it's possible to use sugar substitutes, and/or 'artificial other stuff'.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Lootifer on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:00 pm

I think she means artifical sweeteners. Like Saxitoxin for example.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:44 pm

Lootifer wrote:Sports drinks are perfectly good for athletes. Its just the proportion sports drink consumers who qualify as genuine athletes is incredibly small.

Blame the marketing and culture; not the product.


If it tastes good, then so what? What's the big deal?


*(Note: I drink this stuff called 'water'. High-tech shit.)
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Lootifer on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:07 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:If it tastes good, then so what? What's the big deal?


*(Note: I drink this stuff called 'water'. High-tech shit.)

I loath stupidity. And people whom I am calling stupid dont drink it cause it tastes good. They drink it because its a (1) a sports drink and theyre sporty right?! and (2) it is zero cal, cause they, like, are watching their weight right?!?!

i.e. the product wouldnt exist if people weren't stupid. I am not blaming amatil for exploiting stupid people; im blaming stupid people for being stupid.

If you drink it cause it tastes good then I have no problem.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:11 pm

Lootifer wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:If it tastes good, then so what? What's the big deal?


*(Note: I drink this stuff called 'water'. High-tech shit.)

I loath stupidity. And people whom I am calling stupid dont drink it cause it tastes good. They drink it because its a (1) a sports drink and theyre sporty right?! and (2) it is zero cal, cause they, like, are watching their weight right?!?!

i.e. the product wouldnt exist if people weren't stupid. I am not blaming amatil for exploiting stupid people; im blaming stupid people for being stupid.

If you drink it cause it tastes good then I have no problem.


Ohh, right. I forgot about that whole part. Rage on, my kiwi friend! Squirt your acidic juices into their eyes!
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:18 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:Squirt your acidic juices into their eyes!


Let's try to keep it clean, guys.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby john9blue on Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:52 pm

Lootifer wrote:I loath stupidity.


c'mon man. i like my sig. don't tempt me to replace it.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:45 am

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:Actually, Powerade/Gatorade/sports drinks (anything that tries to sell you "electrolytes") are pretty much modern day snake oil and are a waste of money unless you're a marathon runner or strenuously exercise more than 6 hours.

From my a&p book:

Unfounded notions and rumors about water and salt requirements during exercise abound. Sweat is a hypotonic solution that contains Na+ in lower concentration than the ECF [extracellular fluid]. As a result, a person who is sweating profusely loses more water than salt, and this loss leads to a rise in the Na+ concentration of the ECF. The water content of the ECF decreases as the water loss occurs, so blood volume drops. Clinically, this condition is called volume depletion. Because volume depletion occurs at the same time that blood is being shunted away from the kidneys, kidney function is impaired and waste products accumulate in the blood.

To prevent volume depletion, exercising athletes should drink liquids at regular intervals. The primary problem in volume depletion is water loss, and research has revealed no basis for the rumor that cramps will result if you drink while exercising. Salt pills and the various sports beverages that claim "faster absorption" and "better electrolyte balance" have no apparent benefits. Body reserves of electrolytes are sufficient to tolerate extended periods of strenuous activity, and problems with Na+ balance are extremely unlikely except during marathons or other activities that involve maximal exertion for more than six hours. However, both volume depletion (causing acute renal failure) and water intoxication (causing fatal hyponatremia [low sodium concentration in serum]) have occurred in marathon runners.

Some sports beverages contain sugars and vitamins as well as electrolytes. During endurance events, solutions containing less than 10 g/dL of glucose may improve one's performance if consumed late in the event, when metabolic reserves are exhausted. However, high sugar concentrations (above 10 g/dL) can cause cramps, diarrhea, and other problems. The benefit of "glucose polymers" (often cornstarch) in sports drinks has yet to be proved. Drinking beverages "fortified" with vitamins is actively discouraged: Vitamins are not lost during exercise, and the consumption of these beverages in large volumes could, over time, cause hypervitaminosis.


-Frederic H. Martini, Ph.D., Judi L Nath, Ph.D., Edwin F. Bartholomew, M.S.

-TG


This is interesting. I used to do long distance running (though I don't think I've ever run for "more than 6 hours").

On anything longer than about 2 hours I definitely seemed to feel a difference by using gatorade or those power gell things.
You think it was just in my mind?
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Postby 2dimes on Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:04 am

Pretty sure he meant you Haggis. 6 hours or long distance running.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Army of GOD on Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:43 pm

Haggis_McMutton wrote:On anything longer than about 2 hours I definitely seemed to feel a difference by using gatorade or those power gell things.
You think it was just in my mind?


Probably just placebo effect.

Again, I love drinking Gatorade because it's delicious, not because I think it has any effect on me.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:35 pm

Haggis wrote:On anything longer than about 2 hours I definitely seemed to feel a difference by using gatorade or those power gell things.
You think it was just in my mind?


That or any of the sugar and water that's in it. When you're exercising most of your digestion functions are depressed, so any energy you use is from the breakdown of fats, which is pretty slow, really. Also, fatty acids and keto bodies that result from the breakdown of fat energy generally inhibit glucagon levels and therefore circulating sugar. When you consume sugar it is broken down and absorbed faster than fats, so it'll give you that little spike of energy before the glucagon is inhibited again.

A good strategy for runners, and those trying to lose weight, is to actually drink some plain coffee like 20 minutes before you start running. Coffee is a stimulant much like adrenaline and has similar effects in that it enhances the breakdown of fats much faster than usual, and will translate to more energy for those grueling runs.

But I think running for more than 20 minutes is absolutely ridiculous, anyway. Sprint training ftw.

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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:13 am

One word: Dingleberries
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Lootifer on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:14 pm

john9blue wrote:
Lootifer wrote:I loath stupidity.


c'mon man. i like my sig. don't tempt me to replace it.

Hah! I deserve it. Didnt even realise my mistake.
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Lootifer on Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:47 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:
Haggis wrote:On anything longer than about 2 hours I definitely seemed to feel a difference by using gatorade or those power gell things.
You think it was just in my mind?


That or any of the sugar and water that's in it. When you're exercising most of your digestion functions are depressed, so any energy you use is from the breakdown of fats, which is pretty slow, really. Also, fatty acids and keto bodies that result from the breakdown of fat energy generally inhibit glucagon levels and therefore circulating sugar. When you consume sugar it is broken down and absorbed faster than fats, so it'll give you that little spike of energy before the glucagon is inhibited again.

A good strategy for runners, and those trying to lose weight, is to actually drink some plain coffee like 20 minutes before you start running. Coffee is a stimulant much like adrenaline and has similar effects in that it enhances the breakdown of fats much faster than usual, and will translate to more energy for those grueling runs.

But I think running for more than 20 minutes is absolutely ridiculous, anyway. Sprint training ftw.

-TG

Slight tangent but I love it!

The energy systems that are being employeed in your body during exercise greatly depend on what intensity you are performing at. Only at low intensity are you going to consume fats (while exercising); any kind of serious long distance athlete will be spending almost all their time drawing energy from stored glycogen in their muscles and liver (as you rightly point out digestion is depressed).

@ Haggis: The reason they (ie sports drinks and gels) work is because you need little to no digestion to get the energy; even under highly depressed digestion the sugars still get through.

The electrolyte thing is slightly more subtle, and less scientifically beneficial (that is the benefits are so small such that you will struggle to show them via experimentation - the effect you had Haggis was almost exclusively to do with the above energy thing, and nothing to do with this). But the facts are that you need salts to convert sugars into energy, but they are not consumed in the process (a catalyst). However when you exercise under moderate to high intensity you lose salt through sweating. It makes logical sense that since you are losing salt during exercise, yet you need it to convert energy its a good idea to compensate for this loss. However the impact of reduced salt levels is nothing like the impact of running out of energy in your muscles (you may have experienced hitting the wall Haggis, thats running out of energy).

This, again, is exactly why powerade zero is a pointless product (it has electrolytes but no energy). [bbs] unless you drink it for the taste or other non sports related reasons [/bbs]

Now boring exercise physiology aside; modern IT software grinds my gears. WHY DO I HAVE TO DEAL WITH FLASHY POINTLESS GUI CRAP WHEN ALL I WANT IS THE DATA WHICH I COULD EXTRACT BACK IN THE OLD DAYS VIA A SIMPLE SQL QUERY?!!?!?!?!
I go to the gym to justify my mockery of fat people.
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Postby 2dimes on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:25 pm

Can't you be satisfied you get to write that in the happy new font?
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Re: You know what really grinds my gears...

Postby Funkyterrance on Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:43 am

So essentially what you guys are saying is that sugar water gives the exact same benefit as gatorate and other similar sports drinks, aside from flavor?
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