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Should we fix North America?

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Should we fix North America?

Postby 2dimes on Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:36 am

In flame wars (you know one of the forums with a static name.) a coversation has started that I would like to see discussed here.

The debate is basically between the idea that.

The United States and Canada are good places to live and have some solid laws and customs. If you choose to live there you should make an effort to accept them.

One that has some emotion behind it is Christmas. I don't think anyone cares where the traditions were lifted from or who is responsible for a tree in a house.

The thing is some of us would like to be able to continue to have a tree set up and decorated in a public space to celebrate the season of peace and joy.

minihaymanz wrote:
JTFR wrote:I can't experience having a christmas tree at a christmas concert because it offends muslims? f*ck OFF.


Backglass wrote:Show me where this happened. PROOF PLEASE.


My town. Christmas celebration this past year. No christmas tree.

JTFR wrote:I don't care if its Jehovah Witnesses, Jews, any ethnic minority, any religion...when you are in a country you adopt its customs and norms. Not fight for change because you are the minority.


Backglass wrote:Maybe in your country...but not in mine. We celebrate the differences in our people...not try to shove them all into the same box. Well at least the normal americans do anyway.


No, americans assimilate people. I don't agree fully with JTFR on this one though. When you come to canada, you ACCEPT its customs and norms, not ADOPT. Accept them and don't complain about them.


This is just one example of things that are being changed by the force behind a "politicaly corect" movement than seems to be over stepping it's boundrys.

Some things are/were obviously in need of repair (calling someone a name or slur because of race) some like the "fertility tree" if you wish, are not.
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:41 am

I will be siding with Back Glass the near muslem in this debate. We think this continent is in dire need of some important changes and soon!!

First off, keeping in the theme of Islam.

Lets get some coverage on your women. It's unfair for muslems who have moved here to be exposed to the shamefull acts and sexual tension of such things as exposed ankles and faces.
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Postby Bertros Bertros on Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:51 am

I really want to say more but its not working out, so in a word.

Yes.
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Postby wicked on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:02 am

lol I was so ready to move this to the map foundry! hahahahaha!!!
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Re: Should we fix North America?

Postby flashleg8 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:03 am

2dimes wrote:
One that has some emotion behind it is Christmas. I don't think anyone cares where the traditions were lifted from or who is responsible for a tree in a house.

The thing is some of us would like to be able to continue to have a tree set up and decorated in a public space to celebrate the season of peace and joy.



I live in the UK (born and bred) but I'm not a Christian - why should I see public money spent on a religious festival when we are a secular country (i.e. church and state are separated). Now I can't speak for the USA or Canada from personal experience but I'm pretty sure you tolerate the freedom of religion - why then fund one religion over another? Are you really saying if you come to the USA you must convert to Christianity (from your post I take it you believe this to be the official religion)?
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Postby jay_a2j on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:03 am

Years ago I said, "Political Correctness will be the downfall of this Country" and I stand by that statement today. It is a futile attempt to try and cater to "all of the people, all of the time". Now, since the birth of political correctness, minorities views now effect the will of the majority for fear of offending others.

I never understood the minority point of view. If a child is praying in school (to whatever God they choose or no god at all) why is the atheist child offended? They don't believe he exists, so why even get offended? Stand there and stare at the girl in front of you, but to get offended is insane.


Backglass.... we accept every one's differences but we don't celebrate them. Accepting something doesn't mean "make it the norm".
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Postby heavycola on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:05 am

jay_a2j wrote:I never understood the minority point of view. If a child is praying in school (to whatever God they choose or no god at all) why is the atheist child offended? They don't believe he exists, so why even get offended? Stand there and stare at the girl in front of you, but to get offended is insane.


a) you live in a country founded on secularist principles - perhaps sensible people see prayers in school as a dangerous blurring of church and state
b) how can a young child be 'atheist' let alone offended?
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Postby MeDeFe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:07 am

Could they have gotten a private sponsor to put up that tree?
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Postby flashleg8 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:08 am

jay_a2j wrote:
I never understood the minority point of view. If a child is praying in school (to whatever God they choose or no god at all) why is the atheist child offended? They don't believe he exists, so why even get offended? Stand there and stare at the girl in front of you, but to get offended is insane.



As an atheist I strongly believe that religion should be kept out of schools (all religion). If people want to pray they should be allowed time to do so - in private, not as part of a structured timetable. This would imply that faith is an important part of the school - and thus the governments agenda. I find this unacceptable in a modern secular state.
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Postby flashleg8 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:11 am

MeDeFe wrote:Could they have gotten a private sponsor to put up that tree?


Only in America could there be corporate sponsorship of religion!
Get your Nike crosses here!
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Postby jay_a2j on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:11 am

heavycola wrote:[

a) you live in a country founded on secularist principles - perhaps sensible people see prayers in school as a dangerous blurring of church and state
b) how can a young child be 'atheist' let alone offended?



a)Sensible people? Maybe they should look at the statistics of what taking prayer out of school has done.


b)You tell me. It is not the child, it is the atheist parent who gets offended. Its bending to the will of a small group of people. And THAT is the real danger.
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:17 am

Look your opinion doesn't count if you don't live in North America.

If you wish to immigrate here we will make an effort to repair the place and upgrade it to your liking.

Until then enjoy your home and be thankfull it's not North America, where until we fix these attrocities you might be exposed to small children singing "Silent Night". :shudders:
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:21 am

wicked wrote:lol I was so ready to move this to the map foundry! hahahahaha!!!
Would that help, is it too late?
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Postby millej11 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:22 am

The government fucks everything up when they step in and try to fix religious issues. There's a reason why there is seperation of church and state. Half the time it's the government that crosses that line.
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Postby heavycola on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:22 am

jay_a2j wrote:
heavycola wrote:[

a) you live in a country founded on secularist principles - perhaps sensible people see prayers in school as a dangerous blurring of church and state
b) how can a young child be 'atheist' let alone offended?



a)Sensible people? Maybe they should look at the statistics of what taking prayer out of school has done.


b)You tell me. It is not the child, it is the atheist parent who gets offended. Its bending to the will of a small group of people. And THAT is the real danger.


a) What??? link pls! What are you implying now?
b) i.e. xian parents get offended when prayers in school are stopped.

School = state
Prayers = church
US = separation of church and state.
Seems obvious to me.
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Postby edmundomcpot on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:25 am

This really annoys me. if a christian goes to live in the middle east we wouldnt be allowed to build a church.

Yet they come over here demanding their own council, demanding construction of mosques and get offended if we put up christmas lights.

To the secular state argument. The trees and lights not many people acctually associate with christmas accept the name.

The mcdonalds arches are more well known then the cross these days, but trying to get them to take them down because burger king workers are offended would just be stupid
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:28 am

heavycola wrote:I'm british and better than you, I'm glad I don't live in that thirdworld hole. I live in a truely free country much better than your's. We don't have any of your problems with immigrants.
See everyone in the world lives in a better place before they get here.

Once they arrive there should be an effort to bring things up to the high standards of living they have been accustomed to before leaving for here.
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Postby flashleg8 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:30 am

edmundomcpot wrote:This really annoys me. if a christian goes to live in the middle east we wouldnt be allowed to build a church.


What country are you talking about?
There's Christian churches all over the middle east.
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Postby millej11 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:31 am

flashleg8 wrote:
edmundomcpot wrote:This really annoys me. if a christian goes to live in the middle east we wouldnt be allowed to build a church.


What country are you talking about?
There's Christian churches all over the middle east.


Only because we had to bomb the hell outta them first.
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Postby edmundomcpot on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:34 am

flashleg8 wrote:
edmundomcpot wrote:This really annoys me. if a christian goes to live in the middle east we wouldnt be allowed to build a church.


What country are you talking about?
There's Christian churches all over the middle east.


well maybe not the middle east. but pakistan, turkmenistan area
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:37 am

flashleg8 wrote:
edmundomcpot wrote:This really annoys me. if a christian goes to live in the middle east we wouldnt be allowed to build a church.


What country are you talking about?
There's Christian churches all over the middle east.
Tell it man those places are way better than North America and that needs to be fixed!Side note: Is there an award for ignorance of this level?
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Postby flashleg8 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:40 am

edmundomcpot wrote:
well maybe not the middle east. but pakistan, turkmenistan area


There's actually quite a large Christian Pakistani community and it's certainly not against the law to build a church in Pakistan.

I don't know much about Turkmenistan to be honest though.
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Postby Spuzzell on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:43 am

jay_a2j wrote:Years ago I said, "Political Correctness will be the downfall of this Country" and I stand by that statement today. It is a futile attempt to try and cater to "all of the people, all of the time". Now, since the birth of political correctness, minorities views now effect the will of the majority for fear of offending others.

I never understood the minority point of view. If a child is praying in school (to whatever God they choose or no god at all) why is the atheist child offended? They don't believe he exists, so why even get offended? Stand there and stare at the girl in front of you, but to get offended is insane.


Backglass.... we accept every one's differences but we don't celebrate them. Accepting something doesn't mean "make it the norm".


Jay, absolutely agree with you. Which is a first :-)

And to whoever it was complaining about "state funding for religion" in England.. what state funding? :shock: Can my church please have some?

If you're seriously complaining about Christmas decorations, then I'm lost for words. Anyone other than insane rabid Guardian beardies would lament the loss of Christmas trees and street decorations, whatever their religion. They add colour and happiness, why on earth would you resent that?

Besides, most street decorations are funded by shops and local businesses.

Do you resent council firework displays on the 5th of November?
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Postby edmundomcpot on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:52 am

flashleg8 wrote:
edmundomcpot wrote:
well maybe not the middle east. but pakistan, turkmenistan area


There's actually quite a large Christian Pakistani community and it's certainly not against the law to build a church in Pakistan.

I don't know much about Turkmenistan to be honest though.


O.K. i can accept that. i just get that impression due to the whole christmas/winter lights issue we dont do it in a muslim masjority country why shouldnt we be allowed to do it in a christian majority country
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Postby 2dimes on Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:53 am

Look your opinion doesn't count if you don't live in North America.

If you wish to immigrate here then we can make an effort to repair the place and upgrade it to your liking.

Until then enjoy your home and be thankfull it's not North America, where until we fix these attrocities you might be exposed to small children singing "Silent Night". :shudders:
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