Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

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Should Obama fire his economic team?

Poll ended at Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:08 pm

Yes, clean house. (Accept resignations or fire them all)
5
50%
No, don't fire anybody.
4
40%
No, but find a scapegoat to fire.
1
10%
 
Total votes : 10

Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:08 pm

John Boehner (House Republican minority whip) has called for Obama to fire his economic team.

Source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/24/boehner-obama-geithner-summers-entire-economic-team/

President Obama should ask for and accept the resignations of Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, National Economics Council chief Larry Summers and the rest of his economics team, House Minority Leader John Boehner said Tuesday.

In a speech to businessmen in Cleveland, Boehner, the man poised to replace Nancy Pelosi as House speaker if Republicans win back the House majority in November, offered a scathing assessment of the president's stewardship of the U.S. economy, which he said includes massive increases in spending combined with higher taxes and more rules and regulations.

House Republican Conference Chairman Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., later joined Boehner in calling for the resignations.

Already budget director Peter Orszag and chief economist Christina Romer have announced their return to their private lives. Boehner, R-Ohio, said Obama should clear the decks of the rest of his advisers.

"We've tried 19 months of government-as-community organizer. It hasn't worked. Our fresh start needs to begin now," he said.

"We have been told that the president's economic team is 'exhausted' ... The worse things get, the more they circle the wagons and defend the indefensible," he said.

Boehner claimed that the failure to see a revival of the economy is due to a "lack of real-world, hands-on experience" among the staff.

Vice President Biden, who was touting the success of stimulus programs, responded to Boehner's comments by saying the minority leader's "so-called plan" doesn't offer an economic agenda, but merely says what the president shouldn't do.

"After months of promising a look at his party's agenda for their plans for America, their economic agenda, he made what was billed this morning as a major economic address. And his chief proposal, when you look at it, apparently was that the president should fire his economic team. Very constructive advice and we thank the leader for that," Biden said.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said it was ironic that the minority leader wants to get rid of the officials who drug the country out of the recession that began during the Bush administration.

"The irony here is that Boehner would fire the very people who made the tough decisions, who helped to do the tough work, who helped get our economy moving in the right direction," he said.

Boehner spared no criticism in policies the administration has implemented, calling on the president to dispense with "job-killing tax hikes on families and small businesses;" submit to Congress a spending reduction package; refuse to sign any bills passed in a lame-duck Congress; and support Republican efforts to rescind the "1099 mandate" included in the new health care law.

"One of the new law's most controversial mandates requires small businesses to report any total purchases that run more than $600," Boehner said. "If a landscaper wants to buy a new lawnmower, or a restaurant needs a new ice-maker, they have to report that to the feds. If you’re a mom-and-pop grocery store, and you buy $1,000 worth of merchandise from 15 different vendors, that's 15 different forms you have to file.

"What is the point of making employers and entrepreneurs spend $17 billion to send all this paperwork to Washington, where it's going to cost about $10 billion to log it in and file it away? Talk about overhead," Boehner said.

Boehner, whose party has been trying to shake impressions that it merely wants to return to the policies of the Bush administration, offered familiar-sounding remedies. He said the only way to solve fiscal challenges is to cut spending and provide real growth by not raising taxes on small businesses.

In a show of how he'd do things differently, Boehner said if he were House speaker he would try to end the partisanship that has gripped both parties and deadlocked Washington.

"Washington is gripped by a more entrenched uncertainty -- a standstill bred from all the scar tissue built up between the two parties, all the kicking the can down the road, and all the interests that prod us to keep doing so," he said.

Yet, the minority leader offered several suggestions that sounded familiar, even if not executed, including reducing government collections, spending less and stopping deficit spending

Among his suggestions, Boehner offered simplifying the tax code to get rid of temporary breaks that assume a return to higher taxes later; canceling unspent "stimulus" and TARP bailout funds; establishing budget caps on annual federal spending; reducing spending from current levels; freezing government pay and government hiring; and ending new federal regulations.

"We need to take a long and hard look at the undergrowth of deductions, credits, and special carveouts that our tax code has become," he said.

"As we speak, the Obama administration has in the queue 191 rules and regulations that could each have an estimated annual cost to our economy of $100 million or more," Boehner said, noting that Republicans would require congressional approval for any new executive branch rules that cost $100 million or more."

He added that Republican-style "stimulus" would allow small businesses with fewer than 500 employees to take a tax deduction equal to 20 percent of their income.

But Burton said Boehner's proposals would merely benefit 3 percent of business owners at a cost of $700 billion. He also noted that in the previous administration, 4 million jobs were lost while the current administration has seen growth in jobs.

Boehner didn't argue.

"Since February 2009, the private sector has lost millions of jobs while the federal government has grown by hundreds of thousands of workers," he said. "It's just nonsense to think that taxpayers are subsidizing the fattened salaries and pensions of federal bureaucrats who are out there right now making it harder to create private sector jobs."

---

BTW; here is the 'Hell No' reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwrzsLYt-uI
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:17 pm

I voted no, because replacing one incompetent person with another incompetent person won't fix America. You got to cut the head if you want to kill the body. 2012 is the time for the real firing. That is unless you're a fan of Cuban economic policies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCja99KpjWU
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:22 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:I voted no, because replacing one incompetent person with another incompetent person won't fix America. You got to cut the head if you want to kill the body. 2012 is the time for the real firing. That is unless you're a fan of Cuban economic policies.


Was Fidel Castro known for throwing money at capitalistic businesses with no oversight? I don't remember that part.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:24 pm

Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:I voted no, because replacing one incompetent person with another incompetent person won't fix America. You got to cut the head if you want to kill the body. 2012 is the time for the real firing. That is unless you're a fan of Cuban economic policies.


Was Fidel Castro known for throwing money at capitalistic businesses with no oversight? I don't remember that part.


Capitalistic businesses or state-owned businesses? Last I checked the government owned bank, insurance, auto shares among many shares. Yea, Castro indeed controlled industries.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:30 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCja99KpjWU

Speaking of lack of oversight; It's interesting that you had no opinion of Che/Cuba flag being on the wall of an Obama campaign office. I think it speaks volumes given Obama refusing to place his hand over his heart for the national anthem or to wear an American flag pin at another point in time. I don't want anyone like that in the office.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:34 pm

Actually, almost all of Obamas team has jumped ship, and there are already calls for the head of Summers inc.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:36 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:I voted no, because replacing one incompetent person with another incompetent person won't fix America. You got to cut the head if you want to kill the body. 2012 is the time for the real firing. That is unless you're a fan of Cuban economic policies.


Was Fidel Castro known for throwing money at capitalistic businesses with no oversight? I don't remember that part.


Capitalistic businesses or state-owned businesses? Last I checked the government owned bank, insurance, auto shares among many shares. Yea, Castro indeed controlled industries.


So Fidel Castro didn't believe in complete governmental control of all business? Because I'm pretty sure he did. And I'm quite certain that Obama isn't doing that.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:42 pm

Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:I voted no, because replacing one incompetent person with another incompetent person won't fix America. You got to cut the head if you want to kill the body. 2012 is the time for the real firing. That is unless you're a fan of Cuban economic policies.


Was Fidel Castro known for throwing money at capitalistic businesses with no oversight? I don't remember that part.


Capitalistic businesses or state-owned businesses? Last I checked the government owned bank, insurance, auto shares among many shares. Yea, Castro indeed controlled industries.


So Fidel Castro didn't believe in complete governmental control of all business? Because I'm pretty sure he did. And I'm quite certain that Obama isn't doing that.


I'm not quite certain that Obama doesn't believe in complete governmental control (whatever that means). But I think you clearly are not familiar with hyperbole. You act like I'm truly saying Obama and Castro / USA and Cuba are hardly decipherable from one another. I was pointing out the significant similarities.

But how would you grade Obamanomics?
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:43 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCja99KpjWU

Speaking of lack of oversight; It's interesting that you had no opinion of Che/Cuba flag being on the wall of an Obama campaign office. I think it speaks volumes given Obama refusing to place his hand over his heart for the national anthem or to wear an American flag pin at another point in time. I don't want anyone like that in the office.


"It's interesting that I had no opinion of the Che/Cuba flag being on the wall of an Obama campaign office"? How the f*ck do you know I have no opinion on it? When the f*ck has it been discussed, you blowhard?

Regarding his decision to stop wearing the flag pin (he did wear it for a time), I actually respect his response to the questions about it. I thought it was a very good and meaningful answer.

I don't happen to agree with him regarding his hand over his heart for the National Anthem, though that goes as much to his position at the time as a political candidate than to any actual meaning behind it (in other words, I think it was a really stupid thing for him to do, given his aspirations). There is no requirement that someone put their hand over their heart for the National Anthem...the only place it is formally referenced is in the U.S. Flag Code, which is essentially only a recommendation for what people SHOULD do.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:45 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:I voted no, because replacing one incompetent person with another incompetent person won't fix America. You got to cut the head if you want to kill the body. 2012 is the time for the real firing. That is unless you're a fan of Cuban economic policies.


Was Fidel Castro known for throwing money at capitalistic businesses with no oversight? I don't remember that part.


Capitalistic businesses or state-owned businesses? Last I checked the government owned bank, insurance, auto shares among many shares. Yea, Castro indeed controlled industries.


So Fidel Castro didn't believe in complete governmental control of all business? Because I'm pretty sure he did. And I'm quite certain that Obama isn't doing that.


I'm not quite certain that Obama doesn't believe in complete governmental control (whatever that means).


I don't have any idea what Obama believes (nor do you)...I'm referring only to what he has DONE.

ViperOverLord wrote:But I think you clearly are not familiar with hyperbole.


It would be impossible for me not to be familiar with your style of hyperbole, which essentially amounts to outright lies...I'm just sick of it and I wish you'd stop doing it and start being honest about things.

ViperOverLord wrote:But how would you grade Obamanomics?


I have stated many times in these fora that I am not at all happy with Obama's policies, in almost every aspect. If you believe I'm a fan of Obama's, you are making a grave mistake.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:48 pm

Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCja99KpjWU

Speaking of lack of oversight; It's interesting that you had no opinion of Che/Cuba flag being on the wall of an Obama campaign office. I think it speaks volumes given Obama refusing to place his hand over his heart for the national anthem or to wear an American flag pin at another point in time. I don't want anyone like that in the office.


"It's interesting that I had no opinion of the Che/Cuba flag being on the wall of an Obama campaign office"? How the f*ck do you know I have no opinion on it? When the f*ck has it been discussed, you blowhard?

Regarding his decision to stop wearing the flag pin (he did wear it for a time), I actually respect his response to the questions about it. I thought it was a very good and meaningful answer.

I don't happen to agree with him regarding his hand over his heart for the National Anthem, though that goes as much to his position at the time as a political candidate than to any actual meaning behind it (in other words, I think it was a really stupid thing for him to do, given his aspirations). There is no requirement that someone put their hand over their heart for the National Anthem...the only place it is formally referenced is in the U.S. Flag Code, which is essentially only a recommendation for what people SHOULD do.


Calm down. You skip over stuff all the time. I don't know for a fact that you watched the vid or not dude and I never claimed you did. But I do know that you need to calm down. And you still aren't responding to the Che flag on his wall so I do know that. Case in f'ing point.

Yes I understand formalized flag policies, but I still think it says plenty about Obama; his disregard for American flag symbolism contrasted with the Che flag symbolism.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:57 pm

and he does it on purpose....too...
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:58 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCja99KpjWU

Speaking of lack of oversight; It's interesting that you had no opinion of Che/Cuba flag being on the wall of an Obama campaign office. I think it speaks volumes given Obama refusing to place his hand over his heart for the national anthem or to wear an American flag pin at another point in time. I don't want anyone like that in the office.


"It's interesting that I had no opinion of the Che/Cuba flag being on the wall of an Obama campaign office"? How the f*ck do you know I have no opinion on it? When the f*ck has it been discussed, you blowhard?

Regarding his decision to stop wearing the flag pin (he did wear it for a time), I actually respect his response to the questions about it. I thought it was a very good and meaningful answer.

I don't happen to agree with him regarding his hand over his heart for the National Anthem, though that goes as much to his position at the time as a political candidate than to any actual meaning behind it (in other words, I think it was a really stupid thing for him to do, given his aspirations). There is no requirement that someone put their hand over their heart for the National Anthem...the only place it is formally referenced is in the U.S. Flag Code, which is essentially only a recommendation for what people SHOULD do.


Calm down. You skip over stuff all the time.


Do you ever experience cognitive dissonance when you make statements like this? I mean, just typing this out should make your damn head spin so fast you'd look like Linda Blair.

ViperOverLord wrote:I don't know for a fact that you watched the vid or not dude and I never claimed you did. But I do know that you need to calm down.


Calm down, my ass. Like the cowardly bastard that you are, you made the insinuation that I didn't discuss the Che flag because I was somehow trying to fucking avoid it. "Speaking of lack of oversight", indeed, you dishonest f*ck.

ViperOverLord wrote:And you still aren't responding to the Che flag on his wall so I do know that. Case in f'ing point.


You do realize that the Che flag was in a Houston office funded only by Obama volunteers and was not an official headquarters for the Obama campaign, right? Obama himself stated that it was inappropriate for that flag to be there. Do I think he should have insisted that it be taken down? Of course I do, and I don't really understand why he didn't do so.

ViperOverLord wrote:Yes I understand formalized flag policies, but I still think it says plenty about Obama; his disregard for American flag symbolism contrasted with the Che flag symbolism.


Except it wasn't his doing.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:59 pm

Phatscotty wrote:and he does it on purpose....too...


I do what on purpose, jackass? Please...I accidently miss responding to something? Perhaps you'll notice that when it was pointed out to me, I certainly did respond. In fact, I probably annoy plenty of folks because I do pretty much respond to anything posed to me. Unlike your weak ass that goes into hiding as soon as you're refuted, I haven't once disappeared from a thread because I was shown to be wrong. I may continue to disagree that I was shown to be wrong, but that's a different issue. Fucking hypocrite.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:01 pm

Really Woody? "Cowardly bastard"? I stopped reading at that point. If you have to turn every debate into a name calling format (as you did last thread) then I'm not going to engage you.

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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:02 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:Really Woody? "Cowardly bastard"? I stopped reading at that point. If you have to turn every debate into a name calling contest (as you did last thread) then I'm not going to engage you.


Run away, little boy. Come back when you graduate from high school. Until then, if you act like a cowardly bastard, you can expect me to point it out to you.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:04 pm

It's not running. Your posts are abusive and I will not participate in that.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:05 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:It's not running. Your posts are abusive and I will not participate in that.


You mean your posting of outright lies about people isn't abusive? An interesting definition you have, and typically myopic of you.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:06 pm

Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:It's not running. Your posts are abusive and I will not participate in that.


You mean your posting of outright lies about people isn't abusive? An interesting definition you have, and typically myopic of you.


I have not lied. I have a viewpoint and you have your viewpoint. The difference is that you have degenerated to abusing other posters through the use of vulgarity and taunts.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:14 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:It's not running. Your posts are abusive and I will not participate in that.


You mean your posting of outright lies about people isn't abusive? An interesting definition you have, and typically myopic of you.


I have not lied.


1) You stated that I am a Marxist and that I support Marxist policies. I have yet to see ANY support for this outright lie from you.
2) You stated that mviola made a statement that he did not make. Even when the statement was quoted back to you, you continued with the lie.
3) You have done similar things as #2 in other instances, including those statements being quoted directly back to you, yet you continue with the lie (I'll search for them if I must, but I would rather not).

ViperOverLord wrote:I have a viewpoint and you have your viewpoint. The difference is that you have degenerated to abusing other posters through the use of vulgarity and taunts.


The difference is that you are a liar and I call you on it.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:21 pm

Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:It's not running. Your posts are abusive and I will not participate in that.


You mean your posting of outright lies about people isn't abusive? An interesting definition you have, and typically myopic of you.


I have not lied.


1) You stated that I am a Marxist and that I support Marxist policies. I have yet to see ANY support for this outright lie from you.
2) You stated that mviola made a statement that he did not make. Even when the statement was quoted back to you, you continued with the lie.
3) You have done similar things as #2 in other instances, including those statements being quoted directly back to you, yet you continue with the lie (I'll search for them if I must, but I would rather not).


1. I acknowledged that you have supported Marxist policies and I'm entitled to have that opinion.
2. I properly addressed MViola's statement. You pretended that he stated/meant something else. That is your opinion, but hardly any definitive proof that I've lied. In fact by your logic, I could simply assert my viewpoint on the matter as correct and could could easily say that you are lying. Check your logic dude.
3. Weak. There are no cases where I have lied.

I have not lied and your serial profane attacks and taunts are not permitted via the forum guidelines.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:25 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
Woodruff wrote:You mean your posting of outright lies about people isn't abusive? An interesting definition you have, and typically myopic of you.


I have not lied.


1) You stated that I am a Marxist and that I support Marxist policies. I have yet to see ANY support for this outright lie from you.
2) You stated that mviola made a statement that he did not make. Even when the statement was quoted back to you, you continued with the lie.
3) You have done similar things as #2 in other instances, including those statements being quoted directly back to you, yet you continue with the lie (I'll search for them if I must, but I would rather not).


1. I acknowledged that you have supported Marxist policies and I'm entitled to have that opinion.
2. I stated an opinion that MViola did state and you tried to pretend that he stated/meant something else. That is your opinion, but hardly any definitive proof that I've lied. In fact by your logic by simply asserting that my viewpoint on the matter is correct, I could easily say that you are lying. Check your logic.
3. Weak. There are no cases where I have lied.
I have not lied and your serial profane attacks and taunts are not permitted via the forum guidelines.


You have lied, and lied frequently. The two instances above were NOT stated as opinions in any way, and they were absolutely stated as facts. You made those statements.

You stated that I was a Marxist and that I support Marxist policies...that is not an opinion, it is a statement of fact. I either do those things or I do not. To this day, you have not provided a single shred of evidence to support that claim.

You absolutely lied about mviola's statement as well, several times claiming that it was something that it was not. This was NOT stated as opinion, but was rather stated as absolute fact by you.

There are numerous other instances (never mind your statement here claiming that you don't lie) of your lies in these fora that I simply haven't bothered to look up.

You sir are a liar. Through and through and unrepentant, apparently. You can't just make shit up and then claim that it's an opinion.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby rockfist on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:31 pm

I am going to have to grab some popcorn for this thread. Woody has succeeded again.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:33 pm

Hitting me the over the head with your hammer is not going to change the reality. I have referred to the Marxist left just as other people on here refer to the Religious Right. I am not calling you a Marxist I am saying you support Marxist policies and again I'm entitled to have my opinion.

YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT SAY THAT I'M LYING ABOUT THE MVIOLA STATEMENT. THAT'S BS. Just because you took your own interpretation of his statement out of context does not mean you can will me to be a liar. That's bunk and you know it.

Also speaking of unrepentant, you have attacked me with vulgarity and taunts all night long; even though I have not responded in kind. I have said that you are breaking forum guidelines and it is you that are unrepentant about that fact.
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Re: Hell no! - Obama's economic team won't go?

Postby Woodruff on Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:43 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:Hitting me the over the head with your hammer is not going to change the reality. I have referred to the Marxist left just as other people on here refer to the Religious Right. I am not calling you a Marxist I am saying you support Marxist policies and again I'm entitled to have my opinion.


No sir...you absolutely and explicitly stated that I was a Marxist. You did, in fact, "call me a Marxist".

As well, "saying I support Marxist policies" IS NOT AN OPINION. I either do that or I do not do that...there's not any wriggle room. Therefore, if you are going to say I support Marxist policies, you're going to have to come up with the quotes or I am going to call you a liar on that too.

ViperOverLord wrote:YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT SAY THAT I'M LYING ABOUT THE MVIOLA STATEMENT. THAT'S BS. Just because you took your own interpretation of his statement out of context does not mean you can will me to be a liar. That's bunk and you know it.


YOU are the one that took your own interpretation of his statement and then made direct statements to that fact, not me. You made direct statements as to "what he said" when he did not in fact say it at all. Many people in that thread called you on it, not just me. Even people that were in general agreement with you regarding the tone of his statements.

ViperOverLord wrote:Also speaking of unrepentant, you have attacked me with vulgarity and taunts all night long; even though I have not responded in kind. I have said that you are breaking forum guidelines and it is you that are unrepentant about that fact.


In your particular case, I stand by everything I have said, without exception (that I can think of offhand). I do believe you deserve every word of it.

But that doesn't change the FACT that you are a liar (see, that's not an opinion...that's a statement of fact).

Wait a minute...are you KLOBBER? Your argumentative style does bear a striking resemblance to his.
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